using your PhD title

EoghanIRL · 31-12-2014 08:10PM

I don't see how it's a problem if someone with a PhD puts Dr. as their title .

How I understand it is your patients can call you doctor x/y/z but if I was to write a prescription I would put my degree after it e.g mb / bds/ md . That's how i see it done anyway.

ordinary_girl · 31-12-2014 08:12PM

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

College is not hard. No matter the course once you put the time and effort in you are guaranteed to pass.

People only use titles to try feel like they are superior to others.

Maybe at an undergraduate level, but getting a PhD definitely isn't easy.

I'd actually really like to get a PhD, purely because I enjoy research and academia and would like to at least try it. So far I only have a bachelors, but if I do get a PhD (it absolutely won't be in anything medical) I doubt I'd want to use the Dr title. It's just not worth the inevitable slagging I'd get from friends and family, and there's no real need for anyone outside of a professional environment to know.

El Horseboxo · 31-12-2014 08:13PM

I don't use mine. Not even sure what I should put in my name. If it's Dr. at the beginning or PhD at the end. If I used either in my line of work now I'd get nothing but abuse.

Laphroaig52 · 31-12-2014 08:22PM

Recently I came across a business card for a medical consultant where he had given himself the title 'Mr.'

Now I have heard before that there is a convention that consultants are addressed as 'Mr' rather than as a lowly 'Dr.', but putting it on a business card struck me as a particularly silly case of self importance from one who should know better.

My understanding is that 'Mr' is a title of respect that only others can confer on you......and you should never apply it to yourself either verbally or in writing unless specifically invited to do so.

'Dr', PhD, BEng, BSc etc. are all academic titles which the holder has demonstrably earned so they are entitled to use them if they wish......although I don't know why any secure individual would want to do so outside of their professional or academic activities.

Or do I have it all wrong.....is it ever OK to call yourself Mr.?

HIB · 31-12-2014 08:32PM

Used it once when a conversation by mail with a govt dept was getting increasingly ridiculous. Felt I needed a warning shot of some kind i.e. I'm not going away, I can read the legislation myself, and you better come up with something better than a bull**** answer the next time.

It worked I think.

Other than that... No, never. Was encouraged to do so once by my boss, and I encouraged him to drop the subject.

wetlandsboy · 31-12-2014 08:36PM

There's a huge difference between those who have a bachelors of medicine and a PhD. European guidelines of equivalency state that you need to do another 4-5 years of research before a bachelors of medicine grad attains the status of a PhD grad. A PhD is, as of right, a ‘Dr’, whereas a bachelors of medicine nominally may refer to themselves as ‘Dr’. Someone with a ‘MD’ (quite different to a bachelors of medicine!) would have a qualification roughly equivalent to a PhD. As a PhD may take up to 10 years to attain, it is absolutely vocational. In addition, it has to advance the frontiers of research. I simply can’t understand why people downplay the attainments of PhDs, but yet place bachelors of medicine (and even dentists!) on some type of academic pedestal. If you have a PhD, please use the correct title.

EoghanIRL · 31-12-2014 08:39PM

Flyer28 wrote: »

Recently I came across a business card for a medical consultant where he had given himself the title 'Mr.'

Now I have heard before that there is a convention that consultants are addressed as 'Mr' rather than as a lowly 'Dr.', but putting it on a business card struck me as a particularly silly case of self importance from one who should know better.

My understanding is that 'Mr' is a title of respect that only others can confer on you......and you should never apply it to yourself either verbally or in writing unless specifically invited to do so.

'Dr', PhD, BEng, BSc etc. are all academic titles which the holder has demonstrably earned so they are entitled to use them if they wish......although I don't know why any secure individual would want to do so outside of their professional or academic activities.

Or do I have it all wrong.....is it ever OK to call yourself Mr.?

Yes , if you are a surgeon.

EoghanIRL · 31-12-2014 08:41PM

wetlandsboy wrote: »

There's a huge difference between those who have a bachelors of medicine and a PhD. European guidelines of equivalency state that you need to do another 4-5 years of research before a bachelors of medicine grad attains the status of a PhD grad. A PhD is, as of right, a ‘Dr’, whereas a bachelors of medicine nominally may refer to themselves as ‘Dr’. Someone with a ‘MD’ (quite different to a bachelors of medicine!) would have a qualification roughly equivalent to a PhD. As a PhD may take up to 10 years to attain, it is absolutely vocational. In addition, it has to advance the frontiers of research. I simply can’t understand why people downplay the attainments of PhDs, but yet place bachelors of medicine (and even dentists!) on some type of academic pedestal. If you have a PhD, please use the correct title.

That's because dentists are cool :cool:

Jentle Grenade · 31-12-2014 08:42PM

Surgeons can be a Mr (my OH is a Ms). I have never ever referred to myself as Dr Jentle Grenade. In my academic profile it says Jentle Grenade...PhD. I work in the law field and I know several people who call themselves Dr, drives me crazy tbh!

delos · 31-12-2014 08:44PM

I wouldn't use Dr or PhD unless I was dealing with the German part of the company where it is expected even though my PhD isn't relevant to my current job.

Back when I worked in an environment where it was relevant you needed one to get in the door so there was no point and only sad individuals would use the title.

At first I did have it on my passport. Once, in Istanbul airport at about 2 in the morning, I was called aside by the airport security and escorted into a small holding room. I was then asked in halting English and sign language if I could give him something for his sore throat. I didn't think I'd be able to explain that I'm not that type of Doctor without a lot of hassle so I told him to gargle with salt and water. I suppose I should have been glad that it was just a sore throat and not something more personal. After that I dropped it from the passport the next time I got it renewed.

YFlyer · 31-12-2014 09:06PM

Vojera wrote: »

Not the case for a PhD. You can work every hour God sends and if your research doesn't work out there's no consolation prize. It doesn't matter how much work you've put in, if you can't get enough quality chapters out of it and pass your viva, you leave with nothing. A good supervisor should ensure that doesn't happen, but there's always a risk when you're researching something "new".

You'll come out with a Masters. Will affect you from Post Doc positions within an academic environment. You could still be as employable elsewhere.

LFC Murphy · 31-12-2014 09:39PM

A friend of mine always say that people with Degrees know a little about alot, people with Masters know alot about a little and those with PhD's know everything about nothing

That said I know a lot of people with just Junior Certs that would buy and sell me...

shruikan2553 · 31-12-2014 09:45PM

Im planning on doing a PhD and will probably only use the title inside professional work related to the area. Wouldnt correct someone who referred to me as Mr. Although people still seem to have an issue with others more educated than them so I can imagine someone complaining no matter what I did.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 31-12-2014 09:45PM

delos wrote: »

I wouldn't use Dr or PhD unless I was dealing with the German part of the company where it is expected even though my PhD isn't relevant to my current job.

Back when I worked in an environment where it was relevant you needed one to get in the door so there was no point and only sad individuals would use the title.

At first I did have it on my passport. Once, in Istanbul airport at about 2 in the morning, I was called aside by the airport security and escorted into a small holding room. I was then asked in halting English and sign language if I could give him something for his sore throat. I didn't think I'd be able to explain that I'm not that type of Doctor without a lot of hassle so I told him to gargle with salt and water. I suppose I should have been glad that it was just a sore throat and not something more personal. After that I dropped it from the passport the next time I got it renewed.

Haha brilliant.

TheSheriff · 31-12-2014 10:03PM

wetlandsboy wrote:

There's a huge difference between those who have a bachelors of medicine and a PhD. European guidelines of equivalency state that you need to do another 4-5 years of research before a bachelors of medicine grad attains the status of a PhD grad. A PhD is, as of right, a â€˜Drâ€™, whereas a bachelors of medicine nominally may refer to themselves as â€˜Drâ€™. Someone with a â€˜MDâ€™ (quite different to a bachelors of medicine!) would have a qualification roughly equivalent to a PhD. As a PhD may take up to 10 years to attain, it is absolutely vocational. In addition, it has to advance the frontiers of research. I simply canâ€™t understand why people downplay the attainments of PhDs, but yet place bachelors of medicine (and even dentists!) on some type of academic pedestal. If you have a PhD, please use the correct title.

Best post in the thread thus far ...

You earn every single piece of your PhD I don't understand why you'd be embarrassed or ashamed of using the title.

Steppenwolfe · 31-12-2014 10:34PM

TheSheriff wrote: »

Best post in the thread thus far ...

You earn every single piece of your PhD I don't understand why you'd be embarrassed or ashamed of using the title.

The ones that use it don't either. All that education and still don't get it :cool:

DeepSleeper · 31-12-2014 10:58PM

wetlandsboy wrote: »

There's a huge difference between those who have a bachelors of medicine and a PhD. European guidelines of equivalency state that you need to do another 4-5 years of research before a bachelors of medicine grad attains the status of a PhD grad. A PhD is, as of right, a ‘Dr’, whereas a bachelors of medicine nominally may refer to themselves as ‘Dr’. Someone with a ‘MD’ (quite different to a bachelors of medicine!) would have a qualification roughly equivalent to a PhD. As a PhD may take up to 10 years to attain, it is absolutely vocational. In addition, it has to advance the frontiers of research. I simply can’t understand why people downplay the attainments of PhDs, but yet place bachelors of medicine (and even dentists!) on some type of academic pedestal. If you have a PhD, please use the correct title.

I agree generally with this - I've a PhD and I use the title Dr regularly, but my thoughts on it have evolved over the years with experience. On successful completion of the PhD, 'Mr Deep Sleeper' effectively ceased to exist as the title 'Dr' is awarded to all people who successfully complete a PhD. The degree (PhD or DL, DLitt etc.) leads to a change in title (Mr / Ms becomes Dr).

In daily life, I'm generally known as 'Deep Sleeper' like anyone else, but the correct form of address (if one cares about what is on the envelope, etc.) is Dr Deep Sleeper. It would be weird to refer to me as 'Dr Deep Sleeper' all the time - a guy without a PhD isn't referred to as 'Mr John Murphy' all the time, he's normally just John Murphy as I'm normally just 'Deep Sleeper'. However, if titles are required (for application forms as mentioned above, in formal address, etc.), then the correct title for him is Mr and the correct title for me is Dr - that isn't pretentious, it's just a fact!

The most common way to get it wrong is for someone to put 'Mr Deep Sleeper' on the envelope - I couldn't care less and would never, ever correct someone on it, but it is technically incorrect - this doesn't stop my family getting it wrong ALL the time:D:D. At work, people who email me for the first time usually open with 'Dear Deep' or 'Dear Dr Sleeper' (either is fine by me), but a few open with 'Dear Mr Sleeper' - they may have made a genuine mistake or they may be trying to push my buttons, but I couldn't care less and, again, I'd never, ever correct them - life's too short for one thing, I'd come across as a complete fool and common courtesy would also prohibit it.

The case of medical doctors is different - it is a job, not a title, but by tradition it is given as a title. One doesn't address an engineer (one with a BEng) as Engineer John O'Brien or a teacher (with a BEd) as Teacher Michael O'Dwyer, but we do refer to people with medical degrees (MB BCh BAO) as Doctor Mary McGrath - that has always been the way, it is unlikely to change in this country anytime soon and it probably doesn't keep too many people with a PhD awake at night with worry!!

In short, use Dr as your title in academia if you have a PhD and use Dr as your title in life outside of academia if a title is required for a specific purpose (application form etc.), but don't use Dr as your title in anything outside your profession where a title (of any sort) would not normally be used (booking cinema tickets; signing cheques; signing an attendance sheet, condolence book or greeting card; ordering a new fridge, etc. etc. etc.).

There is a grey area here of course - the bank gives you an application form for a credit card and you fill it out correctly (giving your correct title, that is) - the grey area then appears when you go to book something or purchase something on-line and your details must match those on the card being used in the transaction - now you end up using your title in circumstances where you'd prefer not to so that the purchase goes though unhindered... But life is never simple... And now the retailer / service provider thinks you're pretentious...

Gongoozler · 31-12-2014 11:41PM

HIB wrote: »

Used it once when a conversation by mail with a govt dept was getting increasingly ridiculous. Felt I needed a warning shot of some kind i.e. I'm not going away, I can read the legislation myself, and you better come up with something better than a bull**** answer the next time.

It worked I think.

I'd be interested to hear more on this.

steddyeddy · 01-01-2015 12:37AM

Vojera wrote: »

Not the case for a PhD. You can work every hour God sends and if your research doesn't work out there's no consolation prize. It doesn't matter how much work you've put in, if you can't get enough quality chapters out of it and pass your viva, you leave with nothing. A good supervisor should ensure that doesn't happen, but there's always a risk when you're researching something "new".

This. I work weekends night and day and days off are a rarity. I luckily have a great supervisor (who didn't take a holiday in 12 years) but others aren't so lucky. I personally know one girl with a terrible supervisor who will be leaving with nothing.

Clareman · 01-01-2015 12:40AM

If you work in some industries PhD's are more common than others, for example, in the Pharma industry people are expected to have a PhD to be a certain level, in this industry as there's a lot of R&D and companies will pay for the research to be done, a lot of the PhD could be to do with a staff member being recognized as being a good employee, in fact a number of employees maybe aligned to the research to assist them all get the PhD. Other industries a PhD wouldn't be needed at all.

In regards to the woman in the bank with the NT after her name, back in the day married women weren't allowed work, National Teaching was 1 of the first roles to be allowed married women work, they had to recognize themselves as being allowed work so the money wouldn't be taken off them. Scary thing is that isn't that long ago.

Tarzana2 · 01-01-2015 12:53AM

TheSheriff wrote: »

You earn every single piece of your PhD I don't understand why you'd be embarrassed or ashamed of using the title.

It's simply not modest, it's pompous. That's just how it is, how it will generally be perceived. I think the view is that if you use the title in every day life, you're more concerned with status than being passionate about your PhD subject. PhD candidates work very hard to attain their qualification - it's a job, not for leisure. But lots of people work hard. The hard work bit isn't something that a lot of people will have much sympathy for. You'd likely be working hard whether it's for a PhD or some other employment.

steddyeddy · 01-01-2015 12:56AM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

It's simply not modest, it's pompous. That's just how it is, how it will generally be perceived. I think the view is that if you use the title in every day life, you're more concerned with status than being passionate about your PhD subject. PhD candidates work very hard to attain their qualification - it's a job, not for leisure. But lots of people work. The hard work bit isn't something that a lot of people will have much sympathy for. You'd likely be working hard whether it's for a PhD or some other employment.

But have you the same problem with doctors using the title Dr.?

Bacchus · 01-01-2015 12:58AM

Feck it, sure I earned it, may as well use it. Any forms that require a Dr/Mr, I'll use Dr. I append PhD to my work email sig. I don't go booking restaurants or the like as Dr..... though.

Turbulent Bill · 01-01-2015 01:17AM

TheSheriff wrote: »

Best post in the thread thus far ...

You earn every single piece of your PhD I don't understand why you'd be embarrassed or ashamed of using the title.

There's no embarrassment about the title (I'm still dead proud!), but there's no need to broadcast what you've earned. You spend years slogging in a lab with people who are (or probably will be) PhDs, so it just becomes a normal thing. For me it's similar to not putting your degree qualifications on every bit of paper.

garancafan · 01-01-2015 01:18AM

Where does all this leave a D.Phil?

DeepSleeper · 01-01-2015 01:22AM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

It's simply not modest, it's pompous. That's just how it is, how it will generally be perceived. I think the view is that if you use the title in every day life, you're more concerned with status than being passionate about your PhD subject. PhD candidates work very hard to attain their qualification - it's a job, not for leisure. But lots of people work. The hard work bit isn't something that a lot of people will have much sympathy for. You'd likely be working hard whether it's for a PhD or some other employment.

It depends on how the person uses their title... In normal professional usage (ok by me) or in a context where any title would not normally be used (unnecessary).

To suggest that someone using their title is pompous in all circumstances is simply 'reverse snobbery'- I believe it is good manners to address a priest as 'Father XXX' in many circumstances and to address an earl as 'Lord YYYY' in other circumstances... The fact that I think the peerage is outdated and an anachronism in the current era is irrelevant - I respect the person behind the title enough to address them properly. If they (the priest, the earl, the judge or the doctor) treat me badly, I'll quickly find another, more suitable form of address for them, but I treat everyone I meet with respect until I have cause to change tack.

By the same token, I am happy to be greeted correctly by someone I meet and I ignore all errors of address coming my way - to me that's simply good manners.

I think there are two issues here - people with PhDs who use their title inappropriately and people who take issue with titles due to their own insecurities.

Fred Swanson · 01-01-2015 01:25AM

This post has been deleted.

Annasopra · 01-01-2015 01:27AM

My Brother lost the plot when he heard Cllr Dr Bill Tormey use his full title

Tarzana2 · 01-01-2015 01:39AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

But have you the same problem with doctors using the title Dr.?

In their everyday life? Yeah. It'd also come across as pompous to me.

It's just an accepted cultural thing to think medical for doctor, we're all conditioned to be used to it. As someone said above, it denotes the job, not the qualification. A doctorate is an qualification. If someone calls themselves a doctor, people will think medical.

Tarzana2 · 01-01-2015 01:40AM

DeepSleeper wrote: »

It depends on how the person uses their title... In normal professional usage (ok by me) or in a context where any title would not normally be used (unnecessary).

To suggest that someone using their title is pompous in all circumstances is simply 'reverse snobbery'

I meant in everyday life, not professionally. Professionally or on forms is fine.

using your PhD title

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