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email as a form of written notice

  • 24-07-2012 01:12AM
    #1
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭


    i think i read here before that an email is an acceptable form of written notice, under recent legislation but i can't find it anywhere.
    was i right or was i seeing things??


Comments

  • #2
    Tom Young
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Tom Young


    S.9 of the Electronic Commerce Act, 2000.


  • #3
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    Feck it one I knew for once as well :D


  • #4
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    is this across the board with regards emails?
    i resigned from a regulatory body by email a few months ago as i'm no longer in ireland, but had a letter forwarded to me from home that written notice was required, fines, high court decision etc.
    can i write back to them, reminding them of the email, and this act to support my side?

    many thanks so far.


  • #5
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,308 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    i resigned from a regulatory body by email a few months ago as i'm no longer in ireland
    Did you get any sort of receipt that it was read?


  • #6
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    the_syco wrote: »
    Did you get any sort of receipt that it was read?

    yep.


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  • #7
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    is this across the board with regards emails?
    i resigned from a regulatory body by email a few months ago as i'm no longer in ireland, but had a letter forwarded to me from home that written notice was required, fines, high court decision etc.
    can i write back to them, reminding them of the email, and this act to support my side?

    many thanks so far.

    Only if they agree to you using an electronic signature
    13.—(1) If by law or otherwise the signature of a person or public body is required (whether the requirement is in the form of an obligation or consequences flow from there being no signature) or permitted, then, subject to subsection (2), an electronic signature may be used.


    (2) An electronic signature may be used as provided in subsection (1) only—


    (a) where the signature is required or permitted to be given to a public body or to a person acting on behalf of a public body and the public body consents to the use of an electronic signature but requires that it be in accordance with particular information technology and procedural requirements (including that it be an advanced electronic signature, that it be based on a qualified certificate, that it be issued by an accredited certification service provider or that it be created by a secure signature creation device)— if the public body's requirements have been met and those requirements have been made public and are objective, transparent, proportionate and non-discriminatory, and


    (b) where the signature is required or permitted to be given to a person who is neither a public body nor acting on behalf of a public body— if the person to whom the signature is required or permitted to be given consents to the use of an electronic signature.


    (3) Subsections (1) and (2) are without prejudice to any other provision of this Act or law requiring or permitting an electronic communication to contain an electronic signature, an advanced electronic signature, an electronic signature based on a qualified certificate, an electronic signature created by a secure signature creation device or other technological requirements relating to an electronic signature.


  • #8
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    the_syco wrote: »
    Did you get any sort of receipt that it was read?

    I thought there was an argument the 'Postal Rule' applied?


  • #9
    Tom Young
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Tom Young


    GCDLawstudent wrote: »
    I thought there was an argument the 'Postal Rule' applied?

    See Entorres case.


  • #10
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    Revision isn't going so well then... this thread has literally made me go to the library.

    Although actually that was instant communication wasn't it...

    Actually if I can't argue in absolutes its time for the library.


  • #11
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    Well I won't be forgeting this now!

    The Brimnes [1975] QB 929 where it was held that a telex would be deemed to be recieved when when it should have been read. As it arrived on the machine during office hours it was deemed to have been read when it arrived.

    Also an obiter comment in Brinkibon Ltd v Stahag Stahl GmbH [1983] 2 AC 34

    Where essentially it was said it should be decided on a case by case basis.

    I'm probably on the wrong track here but at least these 3 cases have made it into my tiny little mind :D


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  • #12
    BubsyMagoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ✭BubsyMagoo


    Does anyone know if a tenant can give notice by email and it be considered valid under the Residential Tenancies Act? My tenant sent me an email giving notice but I didn't receive it. They sent a follow up email two weeks later which I did receive and accepted notice from then but they are claiming the notice period should be from the date of the first email. Although I didn't receive the first one it did arrive with the second one as part of it's history but I didn't receive it the first time - any ideas? How would this hold up at the PRTB?


  • #13
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    BubsyMagoo wrote: »
    Does anyone know if a tenant can give notice by email and it be considered valid under the Residential Tenancies Act? My tenant sent me an email giving notice but I didn't receive it. They sent a follow up email two weeks later which I did receive and accepted notice from then but they are claiming the notice period should be from the date of the first email. Although I didn't receive the first one it did arrive with the second one as part of it's history but I didn't receive it the first time - any ideas? How would this hold up at the PRTB?

    Mod:

    Legal advice is not allowed per forum charter.


  • #14
    goz83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭goz83


    BubsyMagoo wrote: »
    Does anyone know if a tenant can give notice by email and it be considered valid under the Residential Tenancies Act? My tenant sent me an email giving notice but I didn't receive it. They sent a follow up email two weeks later which I did receive and accepted notice from then but they are claiming the notice period should be from the date of the first email. Although I didn't receive the first one it did arrive with the second one as part of it's history but I didn't receive it the first time - any ideas? How would this hold up at the PRTB?

    How did the first one show in history if there was no response from you? Could be orchestrated. It would be easy to attach text to a new email and make it look like that text was sent at a previous time. Look at it like this; if you sent a fresh email to someone and receive no response, then you decide a couple of weeks later to follow up on that email, how would the previous email show up in the new email, unless you pasted in into it. Of course, it could be a genuine error too.


  • #15
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭source


    goz83 wrote: »
    How did the first one show in history if there was no response from you? Could be orchestrated. It would be easy to attach text to a new email and make it look like that text was sent at a previous time. Look at it like this; if you sent a fresh email to someone and receive no response, then you decide a couple of weeks later to follow up on that email, how would the previous email show up in the new email, unless you pasted in into it. Of course, it could be a genuine error too.

    The sender simply has to go into their sent items and select to forward the original email, then type their new mail above the seperator line in the forwarded email. Exactly as if they were replying to an email.

    I do this all the time in work if someone claims not to have received my email.


  • #16
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    BubsyMagoo wrote: »
    Does anyone know if a tenant can give notice by email and it be considered valid under the Residential Tenancies Act? My tenant sent me an email giving notice but I didn't receive it. They sent a follow up email two weeks later which I did receive and accepted notice from then but they are claiming the notice period should be from the date of the first email. Although I didn't receive the first one it did arrive with the second one as part of it's history but I didn't receive it the first time - any ideas? How would this hold up at the PRTB?

    Not legal advice, but a practical question....As a matter of interest, are you thinking of risking a PRTB hearing, over two weeks in a landlord's market?


  • #17
    BubsyMagoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ✭BubsyMagoo


    goz83 I think it was a genuine error in that I believe them when they say they sent the original email. source,they probably did just send on the previous email with the new message added which is why the original shows up in the history. I can't for the life of me think of a way of proving to them that I DIDN'T receive the original email though - I've googled it and found no links. Is there a way of getting information from the server to show that I didn't receive any email from a particular sender on a particular date I wonder?


  • #18
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭source


    BubsyMagoo wrote: »
    goz83 I think it was a genuine error in that I believe them when they say they sent the original email. source,they probably did just send on the previous email with the new message added which is why the original shows up in the history. I can't for the life of me think of a way of proving to them that I DIDN'T receive the original email though - I've googled it and found no links. Is there a way of getting information from the server to show that I didn't receive any email from a particular sender on a particular date I wonder?

    The mail provider should be able to say that. Not sure though.


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