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Friend refused driving test

  • 21-12-2014 8:04pm
    #1
    JumpShivers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 580 ✭✭✭


    Bit of a funny (as in weird situation here).

    My friend was sitting her driving test. She approached a junction and was instructed to continue on straight ahead. There was a cyclist on her left who "appeared" to be continuing on ahead as he was not indicating. Without warning/indicating, he swerve in her path and out in front of her taking the right, forcing her to jam on .. on the yellow box.
    Now, as anyone with a license knows (like my friend did), it is forbidden to stop on the yellow box unless you are turning right.
    But, I thought this rule would be an exception if one was stopping in an emergency. Apparently not, when my friend got back to the centre she was given a grade-3 pink mark and failed instantly because of this. She argued that because of this, she would not have failed. However, the tester just pointed out to her that there is an "appeals procedure" sshe can follow if she wishes. She re booked her test for another time and my boyfriend who possesses a dash cam advised her to use it during her test. She accepted the idea and had it mounted on the windscreen in case there was any more ambiguity in the situation.
    When the instructor entered the car, he asked, "What's that?". My friend replied "It's a dash cam". The instructor asked "What does it record?". My friend told him "It records audio and video out the window". She also informed the instructor that she is using it because of the situation that had arisen last time.
    The instructor then refused to participate saying that he was unwilling to have his voice recorded on the cam. The test was not carried out because of this. Maybe my friend should have submitted and turned off/showed the cam, but she didn't and the tester refused to carry out the test and left the car.

    My question is, who was right in this situation? Does my friend have any rights in this?

    Sorry for the long thread.


Comments

  • #2
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    I would have thought the recording of any state test would not be allowed.


  • #3
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    It's a state administered test. They choose if it's recorded or not. While having a dash cam in a good idea in general, I would anticipated this reaction from the tester.


  • #4
    braddun
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭braddun


    videoing is on shakey legal ground in Ireland,and Europe


  • #5
    JumpShivers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 580 ✭✭✭JumpShivers


    But because of the incident last time, she and my boyfriend though it would be a good idea.

    What was she supposed to do in the original cyclist incident btw?


  • #6
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    She'll have to do the same as the rest of us - accept the verdict of the driving tester. She can use the appeals process if she so wishes.


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  • #7
    JumpShivers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 580 ✭✭✭JumpShivers


    dudara wrote: »
    She'll have to do the same as the rest of us - accept the verdict of the driving tester. She can use the appeals process if she so wishes.

    Wasn't it the fault of the cyclist, shouldn't discretion be used?


  • #8
    Supergurrier
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,302 ✭✭✭Supergurrier


    JumpShivers wrote: »
    But because of the incident last time, she and my boyfriend though it would be a good idea.

    What was she supposed to do in the original cyclist incident btw?

    Wait afew more seconds and take the lesser fault for not proceeding when she could have


  • #9
    Alanstrainor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    JumpShivers wrote: »
    Wasn't it the fault of the cyclist, shouldn't discretion be used?

    To be honest, you only have one side of the story (and so do we...). Very hard for anyone to judge what actually happened. At this stage all she cam do is reapply.


  • #10
    JumpShivers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 580 ✭✭✭JumpShivers


    Supergurrier wrote: »
    Wait afew more seconds and take the lesser fault for not proceeding when she could have


    How was she supposed to know the cyclist was going to swerve .. if she waited she would have been done for lack of progress.


  • #11
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    JumpShivers wrote: »
    Wasn't it the fault of the cyclist, shouldn't discretion be used?

    What matters is the verdict of the tester. They gave the mark they felt was appropriate. The cyclist could have been at fault, but the reaction of your friend may also have been incorrect.


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  • #12
    JumpShivers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 580 ✭✭✭JumpShivers


    Alanstrainor wrote: »
    To be honest, you only have one side of the story (and so do we...). Very hard for anyone to judge what actually happened. At this stage all she cam do is reapply.

    Based on what we know/have been told, does my friend have any rights?
    If it gos to appeals, will it not be testers word against hers, and hence, futile .. that's the idea of the dashcam.

    An example... That all oral exams for state exams are recorded and there is a paper trail for written exams, why can't this be implemented for driving tests?


  • #13
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    JumpShivers wrote: »
    Based on what we know/have been told, does my friend have any rights?

    The right to appeal and ask for a supervisor to sit in on the test.

    I wouldn't bother though.


  • #14
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    I actually failed my first test in similar circumstances: stopped in the box because of another driver. It's hard to stomach at the time but I just sucked it up and passed the next time.

    I wouldn't place much faith in appealing a failure to be honest and I'd be surprised if they countenance recording the test.


  • #15
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭markpb


    JumpShivers wrote: »
    She approached a junction and was instructed to continue on straight ahead. There was a cyclist on her left who "appeared" to be continuing on ahead as he was not indicating. Without warning/indicating, he swerve in her path and out in front of her taking the right, forcing her to jam on .. on the yellow box.

    It sounds like she stopped to let the cyclist turn, realised the lights had changed and then stopped completely, possibly obstructing the box and the junction? I find it hard to believe that a tester would fail someone for temporarily stopping in a yellow box.

    Alternatively, perhaps the tester felt her approach to dealing with the cyclist was unsafe and failed her for that? It's very easy to misread the road, especially during a test so what she recalled happening might not be what actually happened.

    Ultimately it doesn't matter, the testers word is final. Even if she she a dash cam, the testers word is final. It's worth bearing in in mind that a dash cam only shows a restricted view of the world. It doesnt show what's going on behind or beside you so it's not very reliable.


  • #16
    Stavro Mueller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭Stavro Mueller


    What did your friend hope to achieve by using the dashcam in the test? By using one, she was by implication setting out to undermine the examiner if the result of the test didn't go her way. I'm not sure the dashcam footage would've been admissible if she felt there were grounds for an appeal. If you look at most sports, for example, video footage isn't always admissible as evidence of wrongdoing. So while people could argue that there should be dashcams used in driving tests, there's unlikely to be any allowances for it in current procedures.


  • #17
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    I think the problem here would be if every driving test was recorded, you have a massive amount of data and information being generated. You then have the issue of anyone who fails, filing a claim for it to be investigated and the time delay and addition workload that would generate (Remember, its a state body we're talking about) But a camera can only see the audio / video of the front of the car and perhaps the driver. It gives no other sense or feeling of the tester or the person doing their test, or the surrounds. And either way, you can't have a person in the office retrospectively pass someone, the most they could do is grant another test. So its once of those situations where I feel the application of technology is not a good idea.


  • #18
    Rob Thomas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭Rob Thomas


    I would imagine that the tester did what any of us would have done if asked if we could be recorded doing our jobs because a previous the person doing the recording had an issue with how a completely different person treated them.

    And that that recording would be used to evaluate our performance by the person we were supposed to be testing?

    Did your friend appeal the original test result as the tester recommended whilst she was waiting for the second test?


  • #19
    lulu1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭lulu1


    A few weeks ago my friend done her test. Before the test she had a lesson with her instructor. He told her in his opinion he could see no reason why she would fail the test. On the day she got the dreaded tester who everyone doing their test in our area dose not want to get. It seems this tester dose not follow the normal route that the other testers in our area follow. For her hill start she was brought to the steepest hill in our town.Anyway there were roadworks going on for a few months in the town and my friends instructor always told her to put on her handbrake. She did this as usual on the day of her test and this is what failed her the instructor told her she was holding up the traffic when lifting off again. Another test now in a months time and we have a feeling its with the same instructor


  • #20
    Cathalog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 329 ✭✭Cathalog


    lulu1 wrote: »
    A few weeks ago my friend done her test. Before the test she had a lesson with her instructor. He told her in his opinion he could see no reason why she would fail the test. On the day she got the dreaded tester who everyone doing their test in our area dose not want to get. It seems this tester dose not follow the normal route that the other testers in our area follow. For her hill start she was brought to the steepest hill in our town.Anyway there were roadworks going on for a few months in the town and my friends instructor always told her to put on her handbrake. She did this as usual on the day of her test and this is what failed her the instructor told her she was holding up the traffic when lifting off again. Another test now in a months time and we have a feeling its with the same instructor

    Tell your friend to email the RSA at drivingtest@rsa.ie. If she asks to have her next test with a different instructor, they should be able to accommodate her.


  • #21
    lulu1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭lulu1


    Cathalog wrote: »
    Tell your friend to email the RSA at drivingtest@rsa.ie. If she asks to have her next test with a different instructor, they should be able to accommodate her.

    Will do but at the same time we cannot be sure if it is the same instructor. It is just at the very same time and same day of the week. Maybe we are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 6. But will defo get in touch with the rsa and see what the story is. Thanks a lot.


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  • #22
    Cathalog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 329 ✭✭Cathalog


    lulu1 wrote: »
    Will do but at the same time we cannot be sure if it is the same instructor. It is just at the very same time and same day of the week. Maybe we are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 6. But will defo get in touch with the rsa and see what the story is. Thanks a lot.

    I sent them an email despite my test being at a different time, and the respondent assured me it would be with a different instructor.

    Even if you're not sure, there's no harm in sending the email!

    You're welcome. Best of luck to your friend.


  • #23
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    As to what did or did not happen during the test (regarding stopping in the yellow box,) is not for us to judge really. We weren't there during the test. We don't know what other factors the tester could have been marking the OP's friend down for. For example, the tester may have thought that she should have been paying better attention to the cyclist, been anticipating his actions better & adjusted her driving accordingly.

    But that is neither here nor there. The tester was well within his rights to refuse to conduct the test, if he was being recorded by a dashcam. His voice and his persona are his own personal property. He is perfectly entitled to not want them to become the property of the testee, where she could do what ever she wants with them in cyberspace.

    OP, how would you (or your friend) like it if someone came into your jobs with a camera, and proceeded to record you as you did your job, and you had zero control over what was done with the video footage? I don't think you'd be all that thrilled to be honest. Imo, the tester was perfectly entitled to not want the test to be recorded & to refuse to conduct the test, if your friend did not turn the camera off.


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