Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think if Chelsea hadn't had so much luck with injuries so far, if they had been without 2 or 3 key players they would be at least 4 or 5 points worse off, and that puts them in touching distance with us despite all of the stuff we have had going on

Some times your luck is just in however, we could have said the above about us a few times when we won the title

Chelsea's lack of injuries has very little to do with luck. IMO there is something very wrong at United that can't be blamed on bad luck, more likely a poor medical department mixed with bad management of injuries and possibly something to do with training methods.

Your not the only club mind, Arsenal have been shocking for a while. You could perhaps say one season they were unlucky, but 5 or 6 concurrent seasons? You have to start looking at conditions. Chelsea haven't had a major injury crisis in the last 3 seasons and I don't thin that's down to luck,

Donnielighto wrote: »

PEDs

Hopefully, although it wouldnt explain why all the top clubs just dont employ such easy to disguise tactics or else they do and the PEDs being used arent good enough which harks back to a poor medicial department.

GavRedKing wrote: »

Hopefully, although it wouldnt explain why all the top clubs just dont employ such easy to disguise tactics or else they do and the PEDs being used arent good enough which harks back to a poor medicial department.

Not all managers being comfortable with such cheating and putting their players' long term health at risk would be a reasonable explanation.

Pro. F wrote: »

Not all managers being comfortable with such cheating and putting their players' long term health at risk would be a reasonable explanation.

Plenty of rumours about Bayern doping as far back as LVG. The likes of Robben, who is faster in his 30's now than he ever was at Chelsea at 23.

It's all unknown at this point, until football actually acknowledges the issue any talk is just pure speculation.

With the amount of money in football and the total lack of oversight, I'd be more surprised if PEDs weren't being used widely. I wouldn't be pointing the finger at particular clubs or trying to insinuate that United are somehow above it either.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Wait, what?

You want to change from a system that's won six games on the bounce, conceded three goals, and use Mata differently to how he's been used up to now, with stats comparable to Eden Hazard?

You're off the reservation on this one pal.

The recent results have been masking poor performances a lot of the time. And Mata's superior-to-Hazard goals and assists numbers include all of his appearances since joining United, so that's more games that he's played in a one centre-forward formation than not for those stats.

bangkok wrote: »

and drop van persie who looks to be back to his best?!

Even though he's doing well I don't think that he looks back to his best yet. How I see it is that, given their current form, Rooney is a superior centre-forward to RVP; Rooney and RVP still don't work well together as a front pair; Mata is still a superior number 10 to RVP and would perform best if played with the more energetic Rooney in a suitable formation. I'm not trying to just pick the best players, or the players in the best form, but the players who I think would gel together the best.

There have been glimpses of LVG's narrow front three systems working recently, so it might all work out in the long run, but they're still only glimpses at this stage. So I'm still unconvinced and still think that a 4411/4231 with a front pair who compliment each other would be more effective.

Dayum wrote: »

I've no problem with footballers taking steroids. In fact, I'd be all for it and I can't image how anyone would be opposed to it....

Who wants to see ****ty tap ins when we can see goals scored in Old Trafford.......from Dublin.

I did like Dion Dublin, just a pity it didn't really work out at United.

Pro. F wrote: »

There are so many variables that a lot of it disappears into speculation as you say. However, I was pointing out that Gav's trying to play it all off as illogical is incorrect.

Edit: Just to add, it is not all unknown as you put it. There has been more than enough evidence to show that there is a lot of doping going on in football.

I was onyl replying to what was said previous.

Post that started it off, a genuine question and reasoned one.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think if Chelsea hadn't had so much luck with injuries so far, if they had been without 2 or 3 key players they would be at least 4 or 5 points worse off, and that puts them in touching distance with us despite all of the stuff we have had going on

Some times your luck is just in however, we could have said the above about us a few times when we won the title

Followed by a post of poor humour, at best.

Donnielighto wrote: »

PEDs

Now, I 100% believe clubs will and have gained advantages through illegal methods, football is to big and to lucrative to suggest its squeaky clean.

GavRedKing wrote: »

Robben was always very quick, the fact hes now faster than he ever was is a bit.....suspicious IMO.

What proof are people using to back this fact up?

Serious question? Is there prolonged statistical analysis showing he is consistently quicker now?

He is still very quick - obviously - but is he quicker? I don't know. If he is, it could be down to doing specialised training over the course of the last decade or so to improve a key component of his game. I'm not saying he has been doing specialised training, but it is more likely (imo) than doing drugs.

GavRedKing wrote: »

I was onyl replying to what was said previous.

Post that started it off, a genuine question and reasoned one.

Followed by a post of poor humour, at best.

Now, I 100% believe clubs will and have gained advantages through illegal methods, football is to big and to lucrative to suggest its squeaky clean.

Maybe we are just talking at cross purposes. If you agree that there's a likelihood that some clubs will abstain from doping even if others are getting a benefit from it, then that's all that I'm saying.

I reckon there is a degree of PED use at every top club, including United. The money involved at this level is too great to think every advantage won't be looked for.

A friend always likes to point out the Juve/United games in the 90's. We regularly got a lesson, then from 97 or 98 we started physically dominating top sides, running them into the ground with a high tempo game. Juve are well known to have been involved in doping during this time. Maybe they were getting caught and cycled off, maybe United started playing the same game.

Now, what i believe each club may be involved in might not be technically illegal - they may be using new drugs or methods not banned - I would say that every top club is walking a very thin line.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What proof are people using to back this fact up?

Serious question? Is there prolonged statistical analysis showing he is consistently quicker now?

He is still very quick - obviously - but is he quicker? I don't know. If he is, it could be down to doing specialised training over the course of the last decade or so to improve a key component of his game. I'm not saying he has been doing specialised training, but it is more likely (imo) than doing drugs.

According to FIFA statistcs Arjan Robben cloacked up a speed of 37kph which
makes him the fastest player in the world cup history.

His previous best was in Bayern Munich shirt when he reached 30 kph speed

Its possible that through different coaching and training techniques his speed has improved without any use of PEDs, of course it is.

SherlockWatson wrote: »

It's not exactly far fetched it's something that Jose brought with him from Spain.

Hes brought the wrong stuff so with him so, it must have been kept for Ancellotti.