Fire in rented property

jimbobtravis · 12-12-2014 3:46pm #1

We recently had a fire in our house that originated from a faulty wire on the pump of the back boiler for the open fire. We relied on this fire as we were able to get our hands on cheap fuel for it. Since the fire we can not use this fire and have been told by our landlord that we need to get oil in. We decided not to use the oil since we moved in as it was much cheaper for us to use the open fire which heated the radiators for us.

The house is not very energy efficient and has single glaze windows. If we were to pay a much higher price for oil then we would not get the best value for money out of it due to the lack of double glaze windows and insulation. Since the fire was not our fault do we have an argument that the landlord should pay for any central heating. We used the fire as it done the job on the cheap, but now we can't. So are we expected to pay for the dearer option just cause the cheaper option is not there any more due to a fire that was not the fault of the tenants.

We also have smoke damage to clothes but i know that we are not covered for that due to us not having tenants contents insurance. But the house would have to be repaired and furniture replaced.

Any advice would be appreciated.

D3PO · 12-12-2014 3:51pm

Was the house advertised as having Oil central heating or as having heating via the back boiler. Id suspect it was the former rather than the latter in which case you really haven't a leg to stand on.

either way you have no argument to expect the landlord to pay for your heating regardless at best you could have an argument for him to fix the issue.

However Ive never seen a house not advertise the heating as gas, oil etc and instead advertise heating as via the back boiler. So Id imagine you have very little in the way of argument here.

18MonthsaSlave · 12-12-2014 3:52pm

http://www.cheapestoil.ie/heating-oil-prices/Dublin.aspx

and the fireplace should still work as a fireplace.

Zulu · 12-12-2014 3:53pm

you could ask for a reduction in rent - but I'd say you'd be doing well to get it.

jimbobtravis · 12-12-2014 4:27pm

I can not remember what sort of heating was advertised. I assume it did say central heating. Why wouldn't it. Its a shared house and all I looked at was the price and location. The house did not even meet minimum fire standards. It only has one battery alarm and no fire blanket. I know people only look into these things after something happens, but that's just the Irish way. With regards the oil, should a house have at least double glaze windows in order to be as energy efficient as possible.

12-12-2014 4:33pm

jimbobtravis wrote: »

With regards the oil, should a house have at least double glaze windows in order to be as energy efficient as possible.

Yes but I'm afraid that, if it were that big a deal, you could have passed on the property but you accepted it as was.

Mrs OBumble · 12-12-2014 5:02pm

jimbobtravis wrote: »

With regards the oil, should a house have at least double glaze windows in order to be as energy efficient as possible.

There is no requirement for rental houses to be energy efficient at this time. There is simply a requirement for them to have a BER so you know how inefficient they are.

jimbobtravis · 12-12-2014 5:09pm

yes cork you are right and it would have been the same answer i would say to someone. I just feel a bit pissed off from the way we are treated about it. contractors not coming to fix problems quick. living in a smelly smokey house with a gaping hole in the floor and is freezing, yet they wont help in any way. the hose does not meet fire regulations but we were told it is up to us to tell them. that is not the case! they are responsible for making the house adhere to fire regulations.

12-12-2014 5:17pm

jimbobtravis wrote: »

yes cork you are right and it would have been the same answer i would say to someone. I just feel a bit pissed off from the way we are treated about it. contractors not coming to fix problems quick. living in a smelly smokey house with a gaping hole in the floor and is freezing, yet they wont help in any way. the hose does not meet fire regulations but we were told it is up to us to tell them. that is not the case! they are responsible for making the house adhere to fire regulations.

If you feel that strongly then you should report it as a safety issue. Not fobbing you off or anything but that it my opinion

jimbobtravis · 07-01-2015 10:06am

More advice needed please.

It has been nearly a month since the fire in my house yet nothing has been fixed. There isn't much damage but there is still a hole in the corner of the sitting room and the smell around the house is still fairly strong.

Rent is due this week. Do we have any right in withholding the rent until the damage is repaired? I am not trying to dodge any payments. I just want to use that leverage for them to hurry up and repair the damages.

Does the landlord have to wait till the insurance pays out or do they just have to fork out for the repairs themselves asap and then they just use to insurance to cover their costs?

Michael D Not Higgins · 07-01-2015 10:19am

jimbobtravis wrote: »

More advice needed please.

It has been nearly a month since the fire in my house yet nothing has been fixed. There isn't much damage but there is still a hole in the corner of the sitting room and the smell around the house is still fairly strong.

Rent is due this week. Do we have any right in withholding the rent until the damage is repaired? I am not trying to dodge any payments. I just want to use that leverage for them to hurry up and repair the damages.

Does the landlord have to wait till the insurance pays out or do they just have to fork out for the repairs themselves asap and then they just use to insurance to cover their costs?

You have no legal basis to withold rent. The landlord would be right to issue notice of arrears followed by eviction if you went that route.

If the house is unsuitable to live in, you should have discussed breaking the lease at that point. The landlord is obliged to make repairs in a suitable time period but try to organise a tradesman over Christmas and you'll see what the delay was about. Insurance will cover costs, not pay upfront so that's not the issue. Have you been in contact with the landlord and what did they say?

jimbobtravis · 07-01-2015 10:29am

I have been in contact with the letting agency. The contractor did visit before Christmas to assess the damage and said he would put in a price. I understand that it was Christmas, but that is not our problem. We must have some leg to stand on in order to hurry the repairs up. Like I said, we don't want to dodge payments, we just want our place of living fixed and the smell gone. And to pay rent in a place where we have a constant smell and a hole in our floor just doesn't make sense.

Moving out is not an option at this time, but the system can hardly just say 'tough sh1t' to us. Or is the country that bad and worse than I originally thought!

Even if there was contact from them to us instead of me having to ring them all the time then that would be a start. If I got some sort of timeline as to when the work will be carried out then great, at least we know. I keep ringing and they keep saying they will chase it up, but then never call back.

Graces7 · 07-01-2015 10:45am

jimbobtravis wrote: »

I have been in contact with the letting agency. The contractor did visit before Christmas to assess the damage and said he would put in a price. I understand that it was Christmas, but that is not our problem. We must have some leg to stand on in order to hurry the repairs up. Like I said, we don't want to dodge payments, we just want our place of living fixed and the smell gone. And to pay rent in a place where we have a constant smell and a hole in our floor just doesn't make sense.

Moving out is not an option at this time, but the system can hardly just say 'tough sh1t' to us. Or is the country that bad and worse than I originally thought!

Even if there was contact from them to us instead of me having to ring them all the time then that would be a start. If I got some sort of timeline as to when the work will be carried out then great, at least we know. I keep ringing and they keep saying they will chase it up, but then never call back.

A terrible situation for you. Can you call Threshold as they are the experts in this kind of thing and will advise and support? http://www.threshold.ie/advice/...and see the rules re repairs http://www.threshold.ie/advice/dealing-with-problems-during-your-tenancy/standards-and-repairs/ Let us know how you get on? And good luck

Michael D Not Higgins · 07-01-2015 10:46am

That's a bad situation to be in, I agree. The problem with this sort of thing is that you're expected to write to the landlord detailing the repair and a timeframe you expect the work to be done. After this passes, you can get someone else to do the work and get reimbursed by the landlord (or subtract it from rent, if the landlord agrees). This is more reasonable for a broken washing machine and not major repairs following a fire.

You've managed to survive a month there so you've deemed for yourself that it's habitable, at least in the short term and in the current rental market. You say you're dealing with a letting agency. I'd suggest getting a bit more forceful. These places would likely be dealing with multiple properties and will deal with whoever's shouting loudest, figuratively speaking. Start by sending a registered letter outlining the lack of progress to date and your expectations for repairs (including contracting your own repairers if needed) and see what their response is.

jimbobtravis · 07-01-2015 11:04am

That's a great website grace. Thanks.

I have read on the website that repairs that are a danger to life should are regarded as an emergency and should be repaired immediately. Reasons being faulty wiring, etc. Our fire was a faulty wire! Even if it was classified as urgent, then the time frame for repairs is 3-5 days.

Yes Michael, I will be more forceful and threaten them with me going to the local authority to complain that the house does not meet minimum requirements. Which what was stated to do on that website.

jimbobtravis · 07-01-2015 11:06am

regards to it being liveable. We spend barely any time in the sitting room as the smell is not nice to be around. Most of the time is spent in my bedroom or kitchen when we are in the house, and most of Christmas the tenants were away from the house but not far away to let someone in if work was needed to be done, like I said to all parties involved.

Michael D Not Higgins · 07-01-2015 11:06am

jimbobtravis wrote: »

That's a great website grace. Thanks.

I have read on the website that repairs that are a danger to life should are regarded as an emergency and should be repaired immediately. Reasons being faulty wiring, etc. Our fire was a faulty wire! Even if it was classified as urgent, then the time frame for repairs is 3-5 days.

Yes Michael, I will be more forceful and threaten them with me going to the local authority to complain that the house does not meet minimum requirements. Which what was stated to do on that website.

Have they done anything with the wiring? Or is the circuit just isolated at the breaker?

jimbobtravis · 07-01-2015 11:09am

They made the wire safe where the fire was but who knows what the rest of the house is like. When the electrician came on the day of the fire to make the area safe, he mentioned that when something like this happens then the whole house needs to be checked. That hasn't happened.

Michael D Not Higgins · 07-01-2015 11:23am

jimbobtravis wrote: »

They made the wire safe where the fire was but who knows what the rest of the house is like. When the electrician came on the day of the fire to make the area safe, he mentioned that when something like this happens then the whole house needs to be checked. That hasn't happened.

I'm just thinking of potential arguments the letting agency will throw back at you. Keep in mind the Threshold time limits are suggestions from them, not legal limits. Mitigating factors of it being Christmas will work in their favour.

jimbobtravis · 07-01-2015 11:26am

Yeah I get that but it shows that I am getting advice, which in turn might scare them a little.

Anyway, I appreciate the advice and I will take the next step. I don't want to end up rowing with them over this and I understand their position as well, but like I said I just want repairs done asap.

Cheers

Graces7 · 07-01-2015 3:25pm

jimbobtravis wrote: »

Yeah I get that but it shows that I am getting advice, which in turn might scare them a little.

Anyway, I appreciate the advice and I will take the next step. I don't want to end up rowing with them over this and I understand their position as well, but like I said I just want repairs done asap.

Cheers

Did you phone Threshold? They will advise and if need be act as advocate.. They did this for me with a similar issue with a landlord and their involvement worked wonders. They called him. A third party can get results fast.. please try this. They are the experts. It is their job and they know the ropes.

Fire in rented property

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