Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

NabyLadistheman · 10-12-2014 11:34AM

tok9 wrote: »

This is completely missing the point of the Gerrard criticism.

Everyone couldn't understand why he was being played as a DM when he was no good in that position. He's finally showing that he's good now that he's been moved further up the pitch.

He sure is down our problem list, however that problem list hasn't changed at all. We need a much better DM.

I disagree. I thought he was poor until he hit the free-kick

Chucky the tree · 10-12-2014 11:36AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh and a hearty **** you to all the Gerrard haters too. He nearly dug us out of the mire himself one last time. The endless bitching about him is utterly ridiculous. He's way down our problem list.

This isn't American Football where you can simply bring on a dedicated special teams player when ever you want. The odd goal from a set piece that Gerrard scores doesn't make him for his terrible play in pretty much every other facet of the game.

LuckyLloyd · 10-12-2014 11:36AM

Suarezistheman wrote: »

I disagree. I thought he was poor until he hit the free-kick

The whole bloody team was poor!!

tok9 · 10-12-2014 11:37AM

Suarezistheman wrote: »

I disagree. I thought he was poor until he hit the free-kick

There aren't many players who played better than poor last night.

Gerrard is definitely playing better now since we aren't relying on him defensively. I don't think there is any denying that.

Nerdlingr · 10-12-2014 11:39AM

But people on here wanted him dropped from the matchday squad altogether. Nothing left to offer the team, his legs are gone etc etc.
Time and time again he's proven he's the only one that ever stands up and produces something when needed.

Last night he was not perfect by any means..again trying to force the issue with some of his passing, his set pieces were terrible...but when the chips were down who came up with the goods to try and get us out of a hole? Gerrard.

We're basically digging our own grave with the passing round at the back. The contrast between them and us last night could not have been greater. They were everything we would have wanted in our team...quick feet, good movement, control, good link up play...actually turning with the ball!!, and pressing the opposition high up the pitch. Everything we were doing last year.

Mignolet passing to his centre backs or lucas when they have a player on them is not doing anyone any favours.

LuckyLloyd · 10-12-2014 11:48AM

tok9 wrote: »

This is completely missing the point of the Gerrard criticism.

Everyone couldn't understand why he was being played as a DM when he was no good in that position. He's finally showing that he's good now that he's been moved further up the pitch.

He sure is down our problem list, however that problem list hasn't changed at all. We need a much better DM.

The criticism of Gerrard has been personal. It hasn't been his fault that the manager was putting him in a poor position relative to the current setup (last year it worked better when we were pressing and playing on the break with pace). Gerrard is still doing his thing as best he can and - as much as it's a damning indictment of our squad and how we've used our resources - in a pinch he's still one of the most likely to make something happen.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

This isn't American Football where you can simply bring on a dedicated special teams player when ever you want. The odd goal from a set piece that Gerrard scores doesn't make him for his terrible play in pretty much every other facet of the game.

Nonsense. Aside from the goal, he helped drive the pressure and create opportunities during the last section of the game. He was involved in a huge amount that was good.

Chucky the tree · 10-12-2014 11:48AM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

But people on here wanted him dropped from the matchday squad altogether. Nothing left to offer the team, his legs are gone etc etc.
Time and time again he's proven he's the only one that ever stands up and produces something when needed.

Last night he was not perfect by any means..again trying to force the issue with some of his passing, his set pieces were terrible...but when the chips were down who came up with the goods to try and get us out of a hole? Gerrard.

We're basically digging our own grave with the passing round at the back. The contrast between them and us last night could not have been greater. They were everything we would have wanted in our team...quick feet, good movement, control, good link up play...actually turning with the ball!!, and pressing the opposition high up the pitch. Everything we were doing last year.

Mignolet passing to his centre backs or lucas when they have a player on them is not doing anyone any favours.

The second part I have bolded is the reason I don't want Gerrard (or Lambert) starting. Those things you listed are basically very difficult to do with Gerrard and Lambert in the team.

10-12-2014 11:48AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh and a hearty **** you to all the Gerrard haters too..............

I do hope we can say the same to you regarding Rodgers in the not too distant future

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

............ but a manager who can't drag a Livepool squad through that European group is not appropriate for this great club.

Chucky the tree · 10-12-2014 11:50AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nonsense. Aside from the goal, he helped drive the pressure and create opportunities during the last section of the game. He was involved in a huge amount that was good.

All of the players improved a lot in those last 10 minutes though.

Bandana boy · 10-12-2014 11:53AM

barney 20v wrote: »

Dodgy as fcuk- Chelsea then snapped him up.

Chelsea are willing to work with a far higher level of Risk than most clubs

Ba was rejected by several clubs after a medical and they signed him up as well.
I would guess it is related to what they are willing to risk on back up striker into that squad compared to what we are (and most other clubs in our financial postion) i would not be looking at the Remy deal as the problem of the summer ,it is deal i have the least issue with.

NabyLadistheman · 10-12-2014 11:56AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The whole bloody team was poor!!

I obviously know that. Alot of the team are not good enough, end of. I've preached on here before about Mignolet and the defence and the general shambles we are back there. Why should Gerrard be exempt from criticism

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Last night he was not perfect by any means..again trying to force the issue with some of his passing, his set pieces were terrible...but when the chips were down who came up with the goods to try and get us out of a hole? Gerrard.

The manager played Gerrard as DM and it hasn't worked out this season. Let's not forget the games he's played in this position where he has not made a single tackle. Now the manager has decided he isn't good enough to play here and has put him up as the orthodox number 10 position, which is surely a position Lallana or Coutinho should be occupying. The days of Gerrard being the explosive midfield player being able to play in this position are long gone. He doesn't have the power in his legs. Watch any shot he took last night in general play. This is by no means a criticism just a reality.

Seems to me Brendan is now facilitating Gerrard and does not seem to know his best position? He was terrible IMO for 70 minutes. He nearly dragged us through single handedly after that. But where is the consistency? We can't rely on a superman effort every week

Crash Bang Wall · 10-12-2014 11:56AM

martyos121 wrote: »

All I want for Christmas is Rafa.

Or Klopp, or Simeone, or.....someone else

For me Its obvious that Rodgers isnt up to the task. Suarez and Sturridge hid the defensive failings we had last season, and now we can neither defend properly, or score

The manager bears grudges that dont benefit the team. Look at Borini for example. A game we need to win, and we have a fully fit international striker left out of the squad. It also looks to me like he has a problem with Sakho as well

His decision making...last night 2 out of Lucas Allen and Henderson should have started with Lallana or Coutinho playing instead of the third. Instead he plays Henderson as an attacker wide on the left!!

The players are devoid of confidence, and the mananger doesnt inspire it, and I cant bear to think what a poor Utd side will do to us at the weekend.

I hope he turns it around, I really do, but I cant see it happening.

I support the team, but fcuk me, some of the decisions are baffling to say the least

ThunbergsAreGo · 10-12-2014 11:57AM

The malaise is effecting everyone at the moment, there is no movement or conviction anywhere.

Sterling was really relly poor last night by his high standards

Kirby · 10-12-2014 11:57AM

This is why you need a strong number 2 and backroom staff. Its part of the problem at Arsenal too. Somebody to talk things through with him, get him to try different players and different systems. "Brendan, look at our last 20 matches. Things aren't working. Why don't we try X here and drop Y and instead of telling the players to do this, why don't we...." and so on.

Rodgers needs to go. Be it now or at the end of the season, he's in a rut and shows no signs of getting out of it. He's selecting the wrong team and he's been mediocre in his purchases.

Basel aren't as bad as people here are making out, but you would still expect Liverpool to have taken second in that group.

Francie Barrett · 10-12-2014 12:13PM

People still don't seem to get it. The problem isn't the formation and the problem isn't whether Borini plays or not. The problem is that we just have too many squad players now.

Lambert should be nowhere near the starting 11 for a CL side.
Borini's goalscoring record for us is just horrific.
Markovic hasn't gotten any goals/assists since joining us.
Lallana - jury still out on him.
Coutinho has a few moments of magic but has been very inconsistent.
Henderson is one I feel who reached his plateau last year, a decent player but not top 4.
Allen has shown that he's a 6/7 out of 10 player, 95% of the time,

When you look at the squad - which players of ours would be automatic starters in a top 4 team? I have no idea if it's the committee's fault, or if it's Rodgers fault, but the simple fact of the matter is that we have bought most mediocre players. You can juggle formations/tactics/players all you want, but when the quality isn't there, you can't expect miracles.

Ferris_Bueller · 10-12-2014 12:13PM

Augmerson wrote: »

Is there anyone who believes Marko shouldn't have been sent off last night?

I think it was a harsh sending off but it had to be given. I don't think he actually meant to flick him in the face, it looked like he thought he was closer to him and he was trying to push him off but whatever way the defenders body moved Markovics hand ended up flicking him in the face, and that's a red card offence unfortunately.

Suarezistheman wrote: »

He thought yer man was closer to him and tried to brush him off with his hand. No red-card & no discussion please. Thought the ref was terrible at different stages last night. Not that I could blame him overall though

How bad was Lambert? Behind his man and everything coming off him. Even before Gerrard took that free-kick I was thinking to myself let someone else take it... such was his level of performance up to then. He was everywhere after that. The day Henderson is a left winger I'll eat my hat. Tactically set-up terribly last night. I can't understand for the life of me what Lallana has to do to get on the pitch. And don't even get me started on Mignolet!

I have supported Brendan from day 1 but he is under serious pressure at the moment and I am afraid he might not be able to recover the situatoin

Agree with all of this post pretty much. Henderson out wide, Lallana and Coutinho on the bench, no substitute striker.. Was Enrique unfit or did he just have a nightmare 45 minutes? Either way seemed a poor decision to start him.

Nerdlingr · 10-12-2014 12:14PM

Suarezistheman wrote: »

We can't rely on a superman effort every week

Sad fact is that is what we're relying on, and who's more likely to provide that? Markovic, Lallana, Coutinho, Sterling or Gerrard?

We saw against Sunderland he had to come on and try and win it when no-one else stepped up.
No-one else stepped up against Stoke either.
No-one else stepped up last night as well when we needed someone.

LuckyLloyd · 10-12-2014 12:14PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

People still don't seem to get it. The problem isn't the formation and the problem isn't whether Borini plays or not. The problem is that we just have too many squad players now.

Lambert should be nowhere near the starting 11 for a CL side.
Borini's goalscoring record for us is just horrific.
Markovic hasn't gotten any goals/assists since joining us.
Lallana - jury still out on him.
Coutinho has a few moments of magic but has been very inconsistent.
Henderson is one I feel who reached his plateau last year, a decent player but not top 4.
Allen has shown that he's a 6/7 out of 10 player, 95% of the time,

When you look at the squad - which players of ours would be automatic starters in a top 4 team? I have no idea if it's the committee's fault, or if it's Rodgers fault, but the simple fact of the matter is that we have bought most mediocre players. You can juggle formations/tactics/players all you want, but when the quality isn't there, you can't expect miracles.

So much potential and resale value though!! :rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd · 10-12-2014 12:15PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Sad fact is that is what we're relying on, and who's more likely to provide that? Markovic, Lallana, Coutinho, Sterling or Gerrard.

We saw against Sunderland he had to come on and try and win it when no-one else stepped up.
No-one else stepped up against Stoke either.
No-one else stepped up last night as well when we needed someone.

Gerrard was a great player who can still produce moments of magic.
Bar Sterling, I don't think any of the rest have the potential to be great.

Nerdlingr · 10-12-2014 12:19PM

Kirby wrote: »

This is why you need a strong number 2 and backroom staff. Its part of the problem at Arsenal too. Somebody to talk things through with him, get him to try different players and different systems. "Brendan, look at our last 20 matches. Things aren't working. Why don't we try X here and drop Y and instead of telling the players to do this, why don't we...." and so on.

Said that on here before as well, are Pascoe and Marsh just "Yes men"?

rob316 · 10-12-2014 12:23PM

There just isn't any quality in the squad, bar Sterling who's only 20 and Sturridge when he's fit, there isn't a single player our rivals would be banging the door down for. The fact that is the case after spending £110m is shocking.

Chucky the tree · 10-12-2014 12:25PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

People still don't seem to get it. The problem isn't the formation and the problem isn't whether Borini plays or not. The problem is that we just have too many squad players now.

Lambert should be nowhere near the starting 11 for a CL side.
Borini's goalscoring record for us is just horrific.
Markovic hasn't gotten any goals/assists since joining us.
Lallana - jury still out on him.
Coutinho has a few moments of magic but has been very inconsistent.
Henderson is one I feel who reached his plateau last year, a decent player but not top 4.
Allen has shown that he's a 6/7 out of 10 player, 95% of the time,

When you look at the squad - which players of ours would be automatic starters in a top 4 team? I have no idea if it's the committee's fault, or if it's Rodgers fault, but the simple fact of the matter is that we have bought most mediocre players. You can juggle formations/tactics/players all you want, but when the quality isn't there, you can't expect miracles.

But when the squad isn't there you expect your manager to use the squad to maximise the results. Rodgers seems incapable of doing that. We saw in the last 10 minutes this team was capable of turning over Basel. However due to Rodgers picking a horrendous first 11 and tactics to start the game we were facing a huge uphill battle in the second half.

Boom_Bap · 10-12-2014 12:26PM

That was a cracker of a goal from Gerrard.
Rodgers made a great decision in bringing off Enrique.
Taking off Lambert was also a great decision, he seen how Sterling was exploiting the Basle team with his pace, bringing in Markovic would help Sterling in driving forward. We seen this was effective until the sending off.
So 2 pretty decent tactical changes by the manager.

It was a bit naive from Lazar, he was putting his arm out to hold off the player, but he was not as close (even after two looks over the shoulder) as he though, and his hand caught the chap in the face. So he was swinging out at the player, and did catch him in the face, so it it pains me to say the red is the right decision. If the chap was a few inches closer where Lazar though he was, it would just have been a brush off.

In relation to putting Gerrard in the #10 slot, I can easily see why he was moved out of that role, he doesnt have the burst of pace he used to have. Where he was clear on goal and the keeper made a great save, the Gerrard of old would have been on the ball faster and had it slotted away.

Henderson was an unsung hero last night, the effort he put in from the first minute. He was constantly defending, and was involved in almost all our action in front of thier goal. It's a shame that he was shunted into a position to accomodate Allen, Gerrard and Lucas.

Probably going to be slated for this, but Mignolet kept our hopes alive in that match, he had to make a few saves in the last 10 minutes when they were countering.

Chucky the tree · 10-12-2014 12:28PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

That was a cracker of a goal from Gerrard.
Rodgers made a great decision in bringing off Enrique.
Taking off Lambert was also a great decision, he seen how Sterling was exploiting the Basle team with his pace, bringing in Markovic would help Sterling in driving forward. We seen this was effective until the sending off.
So 2 pretty decent tactical changes by the manager.

It was a bit naive from Lazar, he was putting his arm out to hold off the player, but he was not as close (even after two looks over the shoulder) as he though, and his hand caught the chap in the face. So he was swinging out at the player, and did catch him in the face, so it it pains me to say the red is the right decision. If the chap was a few inches closer where Lazar though he was, it would just have been a brush off.

In relation to putting Gerrard in the #10 slot, I can easily see why he was moved out of that role, he doesnt have the burst of pace he used to have. Where he was clear on goal and the keeper made a great save, the Gerrard of old would have been on the ball faster and had it slotted away.

Henderson was an unsung hero last night, the effort he put in from the first minute. He was constantly defending, and was involved in almost all our action in front of thier goal. It's a shame that he was shunted into a position to accomodate Allen, Gerrard and Lucas.

Probably going to be slated for this, but Mignolet kept our hopes alive in that match, he had to make a few saves in the last 10 minutes when they were countering.

Great decisions? :pac: Enrique and Lambert were both absolutely awful, anything other than taking them off would have been a mistake.

tok9 · 10-12-2014 12:30PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The criticism of Gerrard has been personal. It hasn't been his fault that the manager was putting him in a poor position relative to the current setup (last year it worked better when we were pressing and playing on the break with pace). Gerrard is still doing his thing as best he can and - as much as it's a damning indictment of our squad and how we've used our resources - in a pinch he's still one of the most likely to make something happen.

What do you mean it's been personal?

I know it's not Gerrard's fault that he is played as a DM. Rodgers has been criticised by people on this very thread regarding that. Along with only playing 1 striker, not using Borini at all etc.

It's an internet forum, no need to brand everyone under the same brush just to try and prove how "right" you are.

LuckyLloyd · 10-12-2014 12:32PM

Kirby wrote: »

Basel aren't as bad as people here are making out, but you would still expect Liverpool to have taken second in that group.

Basel clearly aren't a 'bad' side. They're a solid outfit with good European experience. Still though, the task in the group was pretty straightforward:

Play for pride against Real
Beat Basel over two legs
Beat the Bulgarian side twice

And you progress. Anyone thinking you'll ever have an easier CL draw (particularly as 3rd seeds!!) are kidding themselves. I remember during the Evans era watching Liverpool slide out of the UEFA to Brondby. Hanson was on BBC at the time (who had the tie for whatever reason that year) and his post match analysis was pretty fair and to the point: 'when you go out of Europe you have to look at the team that knocked you out and what's left around them and ask if they can win it? If they have no chance then it's a pretty bad statement about where you are.'

Basel are decent. But every team remaining in the draw would love to draw them on Friday. That's what's up. Our inability to beat them over two legs demonstrates that we are not decent, not okay. Sunday might just confirm that for anyone still not paying attention.

10-12-2014 12:41PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

......... Sunday might just confirm that for anyone still not paying attention.

And if Liverpool get a result Sunday it's not confirmed until the next loss?

LuckyLloyd · 10-12-2014 12:47PM

Augeo wrote: »

And if Liverpool get a result Sunday it's not confirmed until the next loss?

You believe everything is fundamentally fine and we'll come through the bad patch. I get it.

Leroy42 · 10-12-2014 12:50PM

What has Sterling actually done this year. On ITV they were saying he is a great talent, only thing he is missing is the final ball, that final pass. That's kind of the whole point of his poistion! He played great last year, but I don't see the continued love affair with him.

If SG is being slated then I don't see why Sterling is still being lauded. Time for him to either step up or step out. His performances from last season will get no points this year. There is no doubt he generates a buzz when he gets the ball, the anticipation of whats coming is clear. The problem is that that outcome is normally the defender allowing him to run down a blind allay or him making a poor (or maybe better put not a good enough) pass.

Benimar · 10-12-2014 12:52PM

I just cannot fathom the team last night. Having only one striker in the 18 man squad is criminal in my view. I'm no fan of Borini (I don't think he's up to it) but he should have been in the 18 last night.

There was always the possibility of needing to chase the game near the end and having that extra forward (or two) to throw on is essential, instead we ended up playing with none!

FWIW, I'd have started Borini and used Lambert off the bench if we needed to go 'gung ho'. Instead Lambert gets hauled off at half time and Skrtel plays up front for the last 10! When we had to resort to going long, the one player who might benefit is showered and changed.

Of course Lambert and Borini aren't good enough, but they are all we have at the moment - Sinama-Pongolle and Mellor were hardly world beaters in 2004 but at least Rafa had the good sense to have striker options on the bench!

I'm not looking to have Rodgers sacked but he needs to sort himself out fairly lively or he will be out on his ear.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

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