Anatomy of a car crash: 4-part series in Irish Times

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2014 11:29PM #1

Today's Irish Times features the first in a series of four detailed reports on different aspects of a specific car crash.

This was the crash, as reported in the Irish Independent on 2nd January 2014: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-year-tragedy-as-drivers-killed-in-headon-collision-29882260.html

From today's Irish Times:

The first Irish road deaths of 2014 occurred near Ballina, Co Mayo, when the year was just hours old. At about 4.40am on New Year’s Day two men died in a collision on a high-quality stretch of the N26.

The crash touched dozens more people: relatives, friends, paramedics, firefighters, gardaí, mortuary staff and hospital medics. In the months since, reporter Peter Murtagh has met many of these people, to discover how the collision happened – and why.

Anatomy of a Car Crash is the result of that investigation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/anatomy-of-a-car-crash-part-1-1.2025739

Monday: Part 2, the dead men and the people they left behind
Tuesday: Part 3, the autopsy -- what the doctors found
Wednesday: Part 4, the inquest -- who was to blame?

kerry4sam · 06-12-2014 11:31PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Today's Irish Times features the first in a series of four detailed reports on different aspects of a specific car crash.

This was the crash, as reported in the Irish Independent on 2nd January 2014: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-year-tragedy-as-drivers-killed-in-headon-collision-29882260.html

From today's Irish Times:

Monday: Part 2, the dead men and the people they left behind
Tuesday: Part 3, the autopsy -- what the doctors found
Wednesday: Part 4, the inquest -- who was to blame?

Interesting find.

Thank you,
kerry4sam

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2014 11:36PM

I'm not sure if a similar 'investigation' has ever been done before. Hopefully there will be something worth learning from the series.

So far my impression is that one of the drivers was just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Not a lot to be done about that perhaps, in terms of trying to stay safe on the roads.

NIMAN · 07-12-2014 12:22AM

Very interesting to read but surely it all boils down to someone drunk driving?

braddun · 07-12-2014 12:41AM

crashes happen, drink, blinded by lights poor night vision,speed,tiredness,distracted driving like looking at radio while changing it, trying to overtake with on coming traffic with no power to overtake, poor road surface like leaves or stones or wet,
not paying attention to what's in front and behind you,

young people get killed because they are looking and talking to back passengers, as do some parents
not wearing seat belts,

Iwannahurl · 08-12-2014 11:15AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/anatomy-of-a-car-crash-part-2-the-victims-1.2027498

PauloMN · 08-12-2014 11:39AM

Just reading that you realise how small Ireland is. I went to college in Dundalk and I remember Terence Beagan's brother. Never copped it at the time, can't even remember the story - just another crash I suppose I thought. Makes you think though when you read the details, and see the aftermath in terms of family and friends.

dastardly00 · 09-12-2014 06:02PM

Anatomy of a Car Crash: Part 3 – the investigation

Part 3 gives insight into the autopsy and the crime scene investigation.

Also, The Irish Times ask a road safety consultancy company to estimate the speed of one of the cars involved in the crash (the speed of the other car was 80-90km/h as an ambulance happened to be be driving behind it)

The Irish Times asked TMS, a UK-based road safety consultancy with a 24-year track record that includes over 11,000 road safety audits in the UK and Ireland, to estimate the speed of the Mercedes, given a set of known facts.

We gave them the following information from the Garda forensic scene of crime survey and other sources: the Skoda was travelling at approximately 55 mph and weighed 1,450 kilograms; the Mercedes weighed 1,600 kilograms and, in a head-on impact, pushed the Skoda over 12 metres back from the point of impact, on a smooth, cold but dry tarmac surface.

The question for TMS was: what is the estimated speed of the Mercedes? Using what is described as a “momentum exchange equation”, TMS senior road safety consultant Robert Cyples estimated that the Mercedes, on hitting the Skoda, was travelling at 171.2 km/h, or 106 mph – almost twice the speed of the Skoda.

Special Circumstances · 09-12-2014 06:07PM

Interesting articles. Wish the specifics of every serious "accident" could be published like this.

coylemj · 09-12-2014 06:21PM

I believe all of this data is collected after every serious accident, sadly you hear about road closures almost every day of the week for that purpose. It's just that this seems to be the first time in a while that a journalist has decided to collate all the available data and talk to the witnesses (in this case two lads in an ambulance who by chance were driving behind one of the vehicles involved), next of kin and the emergency services personnel who dealt with the aftermath to get all sides of the story.

Having read part 3 today there doesn't seem to be any doubt as to the cause so I don't expect that the inquest will reveal any new data in tomorrow's final instalment.

09-12-2014 06:27PM

Yer man was drinking and was travelling at 100mph.

Time to name and shame in these cases. May even prevent others being so reckless with other peoples lives

Knine · 09-12-2014 06:41PM

The Taxi Driver - the innocent guy doing a nights work is related to me. It made for hard reading.:mad:

BrianD3 · 09-12-2014 08:08PM

Mercedes doing 106 mph and Skoda doing 55 mph on impact? That's an enormous impact, my first reaction is that it sound like an overestimate. When 5th Gear crashed a Volvo 940 and BMW E34 both cars were "only" doing 60 mph. the damage to the Skoda in the Mayo crash looks somewhat smilar to the damage of these cars. The Skoda is more modern and stronger but not that much stronger given that it is a 1997 VW Passat design.

The Mercedes passenger compartment looks to have survived the impact very well but then the oblique angle probably favoured it.

5th gear - considerably less severe than the Mayo crash if the estimates are correct

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOFY2kT5LqA

NIMAN · 09-12-2014 08:54PM

Very interesting again.

Very sad for both families involved, especially the totally innocent man. It could have been any of us, of our brothers or father.

I also would like to see the statistics backed up with reasons for crashes on our roads. We hear so many car crashes on the media, yet no explanation given. Perhaps some might say that by the time its found out, would it benefit anyone?

Special Circumstances · 09-12-2014 09:05PM

NIMAN wrote: »

Perhaps some might say that by the time its found out, would it benefit anyone?

I think some people have a very passive "lord god aren't the roads fierce dangerous" attitude. If specific actions or inactions were directly linked to this person or that person losing a life, some people might recognise that behaviour in their own driving or lack of maintenance or whatever.
Of course you'll always have A-holes...

Iwannahurl · 09-12-2014 09:28PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Interesting articles. Wish the specifics of every serious "accident" could be published like this.

coylemj wrote: »

I believe all of this data is collected after every serious accident, sadly you hear about road closures almost every day of the week for that purpose. It's just that this seems to be the first time in a while that a journalist has decided to collate all the available data and talk to the witnesses (in this case two lads in an ambulance who by chance were driving behind one of the vehicles involved), next of kin and the emergency services personnel who dealt with the aftermath to get all sides of the story.

The RSA's yearly Road Collision Factbook (last one published in 2011?) gives the broad brushstrokes, based on aggregate data. There might well be compelling reasons to know what happened in specific cases. Families can ask for the Local Authority engineer's report in cases where road factors were a cause, and I think those reports should be available to the public.

As inquests in Ireland are public enquiries, it is possible to obtain a copy of the post-mortem report and any depositions taken at inquest, including a copy of the verdict. These official reports are only available after the inquest has concluded. There is a small fee for these documents.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/death/sudden_or_unexplained_death/inquests.html

coylemj wrote: »

Having read part 3 today there doesn't seem to be any doubt as to the cause so I don't expect that the inquest will reveal any new data in tomorrow's final instalment.

The inquest was held in late October, and the findings were as you might expect. I think the value of the Irish Times series is in its depth and breadth. Very often reports on fatal crashes are short, few in number and far apart. In this case the crash was reported in January and afaik was not mentioned again (almost certainly not in national news) until late October.

The role of alcohol is very clear. I would be interested in similar extensive reports where the primary cause is something different.

Comhrá · 09-12-2014 09:37PM

When you think of all those drivers who had their penalty points for speeding cancelled on the quiet (some for excessive and dangerous speeding offences) the Irish Times article gives a chilling insight into the evils of excessive speed/drink driving and the ambivalence of many in authority to these vices.

gctest50 · 09-12-2014 10:34PM

tippman1 wrote: »

......... the Irish Times article gives a chilling insight into the evils of excessive speed..........

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Crash%20Stats/2011_Road_Collision_Fact_Book.pdf

jimmycrackcorm · 09-12-2014 10:43PM

I have to say the the Articles are sadly fantastic reading and every motorist should read them. For a long time its been a concern of mine that many accidents get reported but we never find out the details so we never learn the actual causes or any of the minutae that might make drivers understand the implications of our actions on the road. I hope the Times follows up with more of these.

knucklehead6 · 09-12-2014 10:45PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I have to say the the Articles are sadly fantastic reading and every motorist should read them. For a long time its been a concern of mine that many accidents get reported but we never find out the details so we never learn the actual causes or any of the minutae that might make drivers understand the implications of our actions on the road. I hope the Times follows up with more of these.

I'd doubt they will. What makes this accident a bit out of the ordinary is that it was the first fatality of 2014, and was a double fatality, and was less than 4 hours into the new year

coylemj · 09-12-2014 10:54PM

I think speed was simply a by-product of the fact that the other guy was drunk and probably fell asleep behind the wheel. I haven't seen the results of the inquest but my guess is that the catastrophic spinal injury which killed him was as a direct result of his head leaning forward at the time of the impact, otherwise it's possible the airbag could have saved him. All speculation on my part and I have not read an account of the inquest.

The relative energy of the two cars is interesting and has a big bearing on the third form of injury which Peter Murtagh describes as follows...

The third is when the internal organs of the people in the vehicle are jolted with such force, during either of the first two impacts, that the organs hit the inside of the person themselves and are damaged.

the extent and severity of these internal injuries are directly related to what happens your car at the time of impact. If your car has less energy and is pushed back in the impact, those internal injuries will be far more severe than in the case of the car with greater energy which will slow down but continue in the same direction. In this case the Merc was travelling at almost twice the speed, was heavier and by my calculations had more than four times the energy of the taxi (the Skoda) - kinetic energy is 0.5 multiplied by the mass multiplied by the square of the speed. This is why the taxi was pushed back so far and even if the engine hadn't been dislodged and hit him, it's likely that the taxi driver would have been killed anyway.

Comhrá · 09-12-2014 11:12PM

otherwise it's possible the airbag could have saved him. All speculation on my part and I have not read an account of the inquest.

At a combined speed of 155 mph approx, it's very hard to imagine how any airbag could save the Mercedes driver's life. I'm not an engineer but even so, I have to believe that sort of impact is totally unsurvivable.

gctest50 · 09-12-2014 11:19PM

More tests like this are needed too :

(instead of mickey-mouse 30mph into a wall ones )

( about 5mins in )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCecdOBCFjI

Special Circumstances · 09-12-2014 11:25PM

coylemj wrote: »

I think speed was simply a by-product of the fact that the other guy was drunk and probably fell asleep behind the wheel.

There is an alternative interpretation beyond drink/sleep. Interesting to see what may may have come up in the journalist's investigations, beyond what would have been part of inquest.

dr.fuzzenstein · 09-12-2014 11:45PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I have to say the the Articles are sadly fantastic reading and every motorist should read them. For a long time its been a concern of mine that many accidents get reported but we never find out the details so we never learn the actual causes or any of the minutae that might make drivers understand the implications of our actions on the road. I hope the Times follows up with more of these.

No point. According to the RSA speed kills, end of story. Since this is end of discussion as far as they're concerned, there is simply no reason to intricately investigate every accident, since the cause has already been established by RSA policy.
Why else would we turn accidents into major national news stories initially and then not bother to report the actual findings of the investigation. Because the outcome may contradict RSA doctrine. So, more speedvans, problem solved, we can all sleep better tonight.

Padraig Mor · 09-12-2014 11:52PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

For a long time its been a concern of mine that many accidents get reported but we never find out the details so we never learn the actual causes.

Agreed. I've often considered starting a "serious collision follow up" thread here to document precisely this information, especially as in some cases things weren't always as was presumed by most at the time of the incident - but this important follow up information is buried on page 8 of the regional news. Obviously, I've never actually done it though!

coylemj · 10-12-2014 12:08AM

tippman1 wrote: »

At a combined speed of 155 mph approx, it's very hard to imagine how any airbag could save the Mercedes driver's life. I'm not an engineer but even so, I have to believe that sort of impact is totally unsurvivable.

The 'combined speed' actually counts for very little except as a crude way of calculating the combined destruction but it takes no account of the relative energy of each car and takes no account at all of the weight of each car.

What matters far more is the deceleration experienced by each car and driver. If a big car travelling at 60 kph meets a much smaller car travelling at the same speed, the combined speed will be 120 kph but you will have a far better chance of survival if you are in the bigger car, not only because it's probably better built but because you will simply slow down (say from 60 to 20 kph, a deceleration of 40 kph) whereas the other guy will come to an instantaneous stop and get violently shoved backwards - from +60 kph to -20 kph, a deceleration of 80 kph. That's what kills you because airbags and seatbelts can't prevent internal injuries.

mickdw · 10-12-2014 12:18AM

coylemj wrote: »

The 'combined speed' actually counts for very little except as a crude way of calculating the combined destruction but it takes no account of the relative energy of each car and takes no account at all of the weight of each car.

What matters far more is the deceleration experienced by each car and driver. If a big car travelling at 60 kph meets a much smaller car travelling at the same speed, the combined speed will be 120 kph but you will have a far better chance of survival if you are in the bigger car, not only because it's probably better built but because you will simply slow down (say from 60 to 20 kph, a deceleration of 40 kph) whereas the other guy will come to an instantaneous stop and get violently shoved backwards - from +60 kph to -20 kph, a deceleration of 80 kph. That's what kills you because airbags and seatbelts can't prevent internal injuries.

Yep and so often ignored but very very critical.

RandomAccess · 10-12-2014 12:59AM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

There is an alternative interpretation beyond drink/sleep. Interesting to see what may may have come up in the journalist's investigations, beyond what would have been part of inquest.

What you are thinking occurred to me as well.
That incident in Wales with the family from ireland on vacation was why I considered it.

coylemj · 10-12-2014 01:15AM

RandomAccess wrote: »

What you are thinking occurred to me as well.
That incident in Wales with the family from ireland on vacation was why I considered it.

That incident (it was in Devon) where the guy deliberately drove into the Irish family happened in broad daylight and the driver had left a suicide note. This one happened at 4:40 a.m. and the guy driving the Merc had been drinking. The end of part 3 published on Tuesday gives a hint .... Dr Bennani was the pathologist and we already know that the results of blood and urine tests on the taxi driver (Scully) showed that he was 'clean'. In relation to the Merc driver, part 3 of the article ends as follows....

Dr Bennani also took blood and urine samples and sent them to the State lab for analysis.

These results would tell their own story.

10-12-2014 09:55AM

Part 4: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/anatomy-of-a-car-crash-part-4-the-verdict-1.2031924

Anatomy of a car crash: 4-part series in Irish Times

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