Zero positive comments in FB Post about Bishops response to same sex marriage

Shiraz 4.99 · 05-12-2014 10:01AM #1

https://www.facebook.com/irishtimes/posts/10152552174301158

Irish Times ran an article on the Bishops opposition to gay marriage in light of next years referendum.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/bishops-say-same-sex-marriage-would-be-grave-injustice-1.2024464
The Bishops of course towed the company line & make some nonsense argument about procreation but that's not what struck me.
It's the amount & veracity of negative comments on Facebook.
I'd understand if it were Boards where you can be faceless nameless & drop your bombs but I have always imagined FB as being less vitriolic in it's comments sections.

Out of the hundreds of negative comments I found it hard to identify one in favour of their proposals while many verge on nasty.
I'm in my 40's & can remember when the church who had promised to stay silent on the first divorce referendum stuck their oar in at the last minute & caused a 10% swing which tipped the balance to the No campaign.

Surely they must know their cause at this stage would be better served by leaving the stage rather than becoming a magnet for public hatred.
They are the best promotion tool the Yes campaign have at the minute.

BoJack Horseman · 05-12-2014 10:04AM

They are allowed to voice their opinion though.

It just seems to be on the wrong side of history.

suicide_circus · 05-12-2014 10:09AM

You have to remember that they genuinely think they are right and are doing the right thing. Theyre wrong obviously but they are not wrong out of spite

Lapin · 05-12-2014 10:16AM

If the bishops are that worked up over same sex marriage, watch their heads explode altogether when the first same sex divorces start coming up.

Guy:Incognito · 05-12-2014 10:21AM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

They are allowed to voice their opinion though.

It just seems to be on the wrong side of history.

They are allowed their voice, but that voice shouldn't be given any more attention than the rest of our voices. Having your voice in the papers and on the news every time you choose to use it is a distinct advantage.

Shiraz 4.99 · 05-12-2014 10:21AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

You have to remember that they genuinely think they are right and are doing the right thing. Theyre wrong obviously but they are not wrong out of spite

But do they not realise they are a lightening conductor for public hatred.
If it were a private company it would keep it's head down for a few decades.

Shiraz 4.99 · 05-12-2014 10:22AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They are allowed their voice, but that voice shouldn't be given any more attention than the rest of our voices. Having your voice in the papers and on the news every time you choose to use it is a distinct advantage.

Do you think the media run with their press releases knowing it will stoke public anger ?.

Don Kedick · 05-12-2014 10:31AM

Sure what would Bishops know? They're one of the few sets of people who would have the least bit of knowledge on any sort of marriage.

floggg · 05-12-2014 10:35AM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

They are allowed to voice their opinion though.

It just seems to be on the wrong side of history.

Not to go off on a tangent but that phrase annoys me when applied to civil rights issues. It kinda suggests they are wrong for not agreeing with the majority, rather than being wrong for denying people equality and fundamental rights.

Slavery was equally wrong in 1690 as it was in 1890 for example. It is just tragic that it took people so long to realise it.

lazygal · 05-12-2014 10:36AM

Well most right-thinking people know homophobia when they see it and they tend not to support it.

Grayson · 05-12-2014 10:37AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

You have to remember that they genuinely think they are right and are doing the right thing. Theyre wrong obviously but they are not wrong out of spite

A lot of them don't believe that. Ignoring abortion there's a lot of division in the church about stuff like homosexuality, divorce, contraception and all the stuff about sex. Most catholic laity are in favour of it and the priests aren't either. It's just that it's their jobs.

Dan_Solo · 05-12-2014 10:39AM

Lapin wrote: »

If the bishops are that worked up over same sex marriage, watch their heads explode altogether when the first same sex divorces start coming up.

Reminds me of the old joke that if the church was against gay sex they should be all for gay marriage if straight marriage is anything to go by.:D

eviltwin · 05-12-2014 10:39AM

There are enough real issues affecting people at the moment they should throw their weight behind. They sicken me.

hardCopy · 05-12-2014 10:41AM

I'll be sick if I see these f-ers being invited in to address the Oireachtas again ahead of the debate.

Duggy747 · 05-12-2014 10:49AM

Their reasonings are just complete fúcking nonsense. "Grave injustice to society", they'd have people believe the apocalypse was coming.

Zen65 · 05-12-2014 10:53AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

You have to remember that they genuinely think they are right and are doing the right thing. Theyre wrong obviously but they are not wrong out of spite

But bishops are well-educated people. They must surely realise that the logic of the arguments they are making is at best specious. They must surely realise that the teachings of Christian churches that homosexuality is wrong is based superficially on the prejudice of somebody who once wrote a great deal of nonsense in the old scriptures. Most of the teachings of that book (Leviticus) have been abandoned, because it promotes slavery and holy wars, and even the passage which promotes the execution of homosexuals is no longer supported by the churches. What remains then, is the loathing towards same-sex couples, which allows them to say that homosexual acts are 'an abomination'.

Not wrong out of spite? It certainly is somebody's spite!

Akrasia · 05-12-2014 11:20AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

You have to remember that they genuinely think they are right and are doing the right thing. Theyre wrong obviously but they are not wrong out of spite

A lot of the clergy are holding these positions because they are told to by the heirarchy, not because they actually believe them anymore.

While it's impossible to quantify, I guarantee you that there are plenty of priests and bishops who are still in ministry that no longer have faith in either the catholic church, or the faith, but they are trapped because they have nowhere else to go and too much already invested in their career.

Dan_Solo · 05-12-2014 11:26AM

Akrasia wrote: »

While it's impossible to quantify, I guarantee you that there are plenty of priests and bishops who are still in ministry that no longer have faith in either the catholic church, or the faith, but they are trapped because they have nowhere else to go and too much already invested in their career.

Much as I despise the church, I'd have to disagree that what's left of the clergy are losing their faith in god, they're just losing their faith in the church. Very different things.

Akrasia · 05-12-2014 11:32AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Much as I despise the church, I'd have to disagree that what's left of the clergy are losing their faith in god, they're just losing their faith in the church. Very different things.

The Clergy Project has several members in ireland (although their membership is secret)

For every priest who is a full blown atheist, there are bound to be many who still believe in god, but no longer believe in the doctrines of the church including their objections to gay marriage, contraception and divorce but they can not say so in public

Shiraz 4.99 · 05-12-2014 11:36AM

OP back again.

What surprised me the most is that 84% of people in the country are Catholic as of the last census yet a teaching issued by their leadership couldn't attract a single positive comment.
If you vilified your workplace, the guards, the court system in the same way you'd be locked up.
They seriously need to examine why people are not getting their message.

S. Goodspeed · 05-12-2014 11:40AM

I don't recall hearing this Bishop speak out against the abuse (and subsequent systematic cover up) of young boys by members of his church. Guess he sees this as a more important issue..

keithclancy · 05-12-2014 11:41AM

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

OP back again.

What surprised me the most is that 84% of people in the country are Catholic as of the last census yet a teaching issued by their leadership couldn't attract a single positive comment.
If you vilified your workplace, the guards, the court system in the same way you'd be locked up.
They seriously need to examine why people are not getting their message.

It's not like we had a fuppin choice, some lad poured water on my head and I was in the club, I couldn't even talk or understand what was going on.

Looking back I think the whole thing is a cult.

Grand Moff Tarkin · 05-12-2014 11:44AM

I stopped paying attention to the church and its minions years ago.

Dan_Solo · 05-12-2014 11:45AM

Akrasia wrote: »

For every priest who is a full blown atheist, there are bound to be many who still believe in god, but no longer believe in the doctrines of the church including their objections to gay marriage, contraception and divorce but they can not say so in public

I've no doubt that's true, it's the number who are really atheist I'd guess is very low. (although a low number could still be a huge percentage, eh?)

P_1 · 05-12-2014 11:46AM

They do have the right to issue their opinions.

They do not have the right to force everyone else to live by those anymore thankfully.

Daith · 05-12-2014 12:09PM

P_1 wrote: »

They do have the right to issue their opinions.

They do not have the right to force everyone else to live by those anymore thankfully.

Especially in the case of civil marriage.

lazygal · 05-12-2014 12:20PM

P_1 wrote: »

They do have the right to issue their opinions.

They do not have the right to force everyone else to live by those anymore thankfully.

I think if any other group issued statements that being gay was a grave disorder, they would be accused of homophobia, and rightly so. All opinions are not legally protected.

conorhal · 05-12-2014 12:34PM

Don Kedick wrote: »

Sure what would Bishops know? They're one of the few sets of people who would have the least bit of knowledge on any sort of marriage.

But on the other hand they probably know an awful lot about gay sex though.

Acciaccatura · 05-12-2014 01:08PM

"The union of marriage provides for the continuation of the human race and the development of human society”

So, what does that mean for couples who don't want/are incapable of having children? That it would be wrong to get married in either case? If a couple don't want to have children, they use contraception, which the Catholic Church is also opposed to, and although you come across the odd article against it in religious newspapers (my mother gets the Alive! paper, unfortunately), they seem to have come to tolerate that contraception is a part of everyday adult life. Why can't they at least tolerate gay marriage through the State too? If they want to say gay marriage is a sin and they won't sanctify any marriage, that's (kind of) fine, but don't be trying to get the the State to do the same.

Venus In Furs · 05-12-2014 01:43PM

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

I have always imagined FB as being less vitriolic in it's comments sections.

Lollers.

Grayson · 05-12-2014 01:46PM

Acciaccatura wrote: »

"The union of marriage provides for the continuation of the human race and the development of human society”

So, what does that mean for couples who don't want/are incapable of having children? That it would be wrong to get married in either case? If a couple don't want to have children, they use contraception, which the Catholic Church is also opposed to, and although you come across the odd article against it in religious newspapers (my mother gets the Alive! paper, unfortunately), they seem to have come to tolerate that contraception is a part of everyday adult life. Why can't they at least tolerate gay marriage through the State too? If they want to say gay marriage is a sin and they won't sanctify any marriage, that's (kind of) fine, but don't be trying to get the the State to do the same.

They'd be saying something different if contraception was illegal and there was a referendum on it.

Zero positive comments in FB Post about Bishops response to same sex marriage

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