Breastfeeding in Public places

ash23 · 03-12-2014 08:24PM

Shrap wrote: »

But most of us have a certain sense of decorum ash. I very much doubt that you'd see that same woman sitting next to you in a restaurant like that. Why would she? I mean, you actually had to search for that image, when other images in that protest were much more like what you actually see on a regular basis.

http://static4.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_crop_small_aspect/2100-8/photos/1380655323-danish-mothers-protest-against-discrimination-of-breastfeeding_2165118.jpg

There is no need to expose the breast more than is necessary to feed the baby (unless you're making a big fat protesting point of it), and it's not necessary to expose yourself because that's not the reason you're doing it. The reason is to feed your baby. Nothing else. I didn't "whip out my boobs" in a public restaurant because I wanted to, I carefully and politely let out enough boob for my baby to feed from. And that was highlighted and made a show of by the people who had a different idea of it, do you see? It was their problem, not mine. The protests wouldn't happen if people who object to publc breastfeeding didn't make a show of the issue.

I have said already loads of times that I've been talking about the women who DO expose more than is necessary. I don't think asking a woman who is (IMO) overly exposed to cover up is wrong. However the ones who do feed that way are the ones most likely to freak and go public about it.
Logically the majority of people know what is fairly acceptable in public in terms of breastfeeding. Fact is that some will push boundaries in all walks of life including breastfeeding. And I don't think people who aren't comfortable with that level of display should be ripped apart for saying so.

I've seen women who breastfeed like that. Not many but they're out there. One of my ex Facebook friends was always posting pics of her breastfeeding with even more revealed than that. But anyone who dared say it was accused of much the same as I've been here. Prude, priss, seeing sex in breastfeeding etc etc when really most people are aware it's not very appropriate. Nobody is allowed to say so though or they'll be roasted.

And it does make you doubt the cases where women are asked to cover up. I thought it before I saw the PIC in the OP. That's why I don't think being extreme actually helps the cause

y0ssar1an22 · 03-12-2014 08:28PM

Candie wrote: »

You have to wonder about people who think feeding a baby is like sh!tting in public.

OK, what about spitting and farting in public?

volchitsa · 03-12-2014 08:36PM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

OK, what about spitting and farting in public?

I have an idea - how about you tell us whether you consider eating your own dinner in public is like sh*tting in front of others?

Where do you eat your dinner when you are not alone - in the toilet?

Ruu · 03-12-2014 08:41PM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

OK, what about spitting and farting in public?

Don't post in this thread again.

Mod.

Shrap · 03-12-2014 08:44PM

ash23 wrote: »

I have said already loads of times that I've been talking about the women who DO expose more than is necessary. I don't think asking a woman who is (IMO) overly exposed to cover up is wrong. However the ones who do feed that way are the ones most likely to freak and go public about it.

They're probably the ones most likely to feel insulted to be asked to stop and who go to the opposite extreme. In fairness to them, making a point of it is often/usually on behalf of people who feel too scared to breastfeed in public due to public shaming. I'm all for exposing the prejudice in this way.

Logically the majority of people know what is fairly acceptable in public in terms of breastfeeding. Fact is that some will push boundaries in all walks of life including breastfeeding. And I don't think people who aren't comfortable with that level of display should be ripped apart for saying so.
That's why I don't think being extreme actually helps the cause

But you do realise there is a cause? Good. The equal and opposite reaction to society being against something (for really crappy reasons) is to portray it in a more extreme fashion. There would be no need for such extremes if there weren't people telling others that it's not acceptable at all to breastfeed in public. Nobody would have to push the boundaries. You said it, in fact. Push the boundaries. What does that even mean, in these terms? The boundaries in this case are where feeding your child naturally is not allowed in a public place. Can you see how outrageous that boundary is?

up for anything · 03-12-2014 08:58PM

"Protected by law
The right to breastfeed in public is protected by law in Ireland, which means that nobody can be asked to stop nursing, to leave a premises, or to use separate facilities such as the toilet (not an uncommon suggestion, sadly enough, which again illustrates the lurking suspicion that breastfeeding is somehow unclean)."

(http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/why-is-breastfeeding-in-public-such-a-problem-1.1838372)

You'd swear we were living in an Islamic country the way people carry on about breastfeeding and seeing babies latched on. There's no fecking problem with breasts in porn, top shelf mags, on foreign beaches, popping out of wonderbras on billboards but expose more than a weencey bit of a boob while feeding your baby and people are up in arms and don't know where to look. Fucking stupid if you ask me. :rolleyes:

Shrap · 03-12-2014 09:06PM

up for anything wrote: »

You'd swear we were living in an Islamic country the way people carry on about breastfeeding and seeing babies latched on. There's no fecking problem with breasts in porn, top shelf mags, on foreign beaches, popping out of wonderbras on billboards but expose more than a weencey bit of a boob while feeding your baby and people are up in arms and don't know where to look. Fucking stupid if you ask me. :rolleyes:

It's because the breast is seen as sexual. There's no problem (? well....there clearly is) with it being sexual/exposed on foreign beaches/used in advertising as a titillating feature, but there is a problem when that object that we've been trained to see as sexual is used publicly in it's rightful capacity. It is a shame, and no shame on the women trying to use their breasts the way nature developed them.

What I find extraordinary is how so many people don't recognise how they have been conditioned to view the breast as shameful because of it's sexual representation.

dark crystal · 03-12-2014 09:11PM

ash23 wrote: »

One of my ex Facebook friends was always posting pics of her breastfeeding with even more revealed than that. But anyone who dared say it was accused of much the same as I've been here. Prude, priss, seeing sex in breastfeeding etc etc when really most people are aware it's not very appropriate. Nobody is allowed to say so though or they'll be roasted.

Well, that much exposure, I would find a bit distasteful. Unless she was posting those pictures on a FB breastfeeding support group, then it seems a wee bit exhibitionist like to just plaster numerous pics of yourself breastfeeding your baby on your actual public timeline. That's slightly weird and attention seeky alright.

However, the vast majority of breastfeeding mums really just want to relax, feed their babies in peace and not be made feel ashamed for doing so.

seventeen sheep · 03-12-2014 09:23PM

anonyanony wrote: »

Do you no express milk so the father can bottle feed the baby sometimes and bond with the child? Expressing milk so dad can feed the baby is a great way for them to bond.

Actually, seeing as you asked, I feed my baby formula. I only did breastfeeding and pumping for a few weeks, and never got experienced enough at breastfeeding to attempt it outside of the house, so being able to do it in public areas never became an issue for me.

However I'd be furious if I was bottle-feeding my baby, and a waiter came over and put a cloth over the child, or if I got filthy looks for bottle-feeding, or if I was told it was disgusting and should be done behind closed doors. And the thoughts of being told to go and feed my baby in the toilets! I hate even changing my baby's nappies in public toilets, let alone feeding him in there!

I think it's very sad when anyone criticises a parent for feeding their baby. Whether it's breastfeeding or bottle-feeding that they're criticising. If a baby is hungry, you feed it.

A woman should not be made a social pariah, locked up at home for the duration of her child's early months/years, just because strangers might be offended at the sight of - what, exactly? The back of a baby's head? That's about all you can see in the "uncovered" photo in the OP, and that's generally about all you can see when a woman is breastfeeding in public.

And if you're the type to be offended at - god forbid - a quick glance of nipple as the baby latches on or off, then the solution is simple ... just don't look.

irishgrover · 03-12-2014 09:26PM

I can't really think of any situation where it is not acceptable to breastfeed in public. If people have a problem with it when out dining, then to be honest, and imoho, they should get a ****ing life.
If parents have a problem with their children seeing someone breastfeed then they should educate their children or just lock them up at home until they are 18....
The posts here about equating breastfeeding with "flashing your baps in temple bar" or "going to the toilet" or whatever are just a really sad reflection on the maturity of society, or maybe just afterhours bordies..

MRnotlob606 · 03-12-2014 09:27PM

I don't there's any ethical considerations here other than it's 100 % natural. Generations of sexual repression have made breastfeeding a taboo, and nudity for that matter. I think it's time us Irish people start to become more comfortable in our own skin.

03-12-2014 09:30PM

I don't understand why people get so fussed up about women breastfeeding in public. Why should they even be discreet? It's a natural thing, and it's only a breast. Being used for food. Nothing sexual at all about it.

I used to work in a restaurant and some of the younger staff wouldn't deliver food take/take an order from a table if there was a women breast feeding as they found it so shocking :rolleyes:

Real Life · 03-12-2014 09:43PM

Mary63 wrote: »

They should have supplied mother with a burka to cover herself and breast feeding baby.

I really cannot stand these in your face mothers,put it away,we dont need to know all about you and your baby especially when your baby is walking.

These babies are always called Phoebe or Fabian or other horrible names and you always hear them before you see them,Mum and Dad answer their stupid questions incessantly as if they and they alone are the most clever being to get up on two legs,seriously ****ing irritating in supermarket queues. It would be better if once in a while the children could be told to give their tongue a break as their chatter is so stupid,teachers then might be actually able to teach them in school.

First I'm reading about mothers breastfeeding, next thing its about children giving their tongue a break so teachers can teach them. talk about going off topic

seventeen sheep · 03-12-2014 09:46PM

Lia_lia wrote: »

I don't understand why people get so fussed up about women breastfeeding in public. Why should they even be discreet? It's a natural thing, and it's only a breast. Being used for food. Nothing sexual at all about it.

Yeah I don't get all the posts, "It's fine as long as the mother is discreet." Breastfeeding is a natural thing, but for most people it's a learned skill, and on a first baby it often takes a long time for both the mother and the baby to learn how to do it successfully. Once you've mastered that, you can maybe think about learning how to do it successfully and discreetly - but to be perfectly honest, if I'd managed to breastfeed successfully, I wouldn't really have given a crap about who saw my boobs when I was at it! While there's no need to take your top off to breastfeed, I don't think mothers should have to go out of their way to ninja-breastfeed, either. There's no shame in using your breasts to do what they're there for.

Venus In Furs · 03-12-2014 09:48PM

Candie wrote: »

You have to wonder about people who think feeding a baby is like sh!tting in public.

Ah be fair - sh1tting and peeing are clearly directly comparable with breastfeeding.
Well, apart from the whole feeding-a-hungry-baby element, but other than that minor difference... pretty much the exact same!

dubstarr · 03-12-2014 09:54PM

I really miss breastfeeding.And people on this thread are making out bf is a sexual act are sick.Its actually toe curling sore until your nipples toughen up a bit.
And Ash as a woman who breastfed her own child you are coming across as hypocritical.It was alright for you to be discrete [we have no proof you actually were]but lambasting some poor woman trying to do her best by having the cheek to to flash a little bit of flesh.Ive had moments where my top or bra went the other way and didnt close properly.But i wasnt doing it to tittilate some aul fecker or embarress some woman.It happened because all my focus was on my child or my other children that i had with me.

Its not all about yuo,you dont like it look away.You are allowed to turn your neck and look at something else.

tinkerbell · 03-12-2014 09:57PM

Is it any wonder why breastfeeding rates are so low here because of all these precious idiots going around getting offended with the actual reason for the existence of breasts on a woman? And the whole being discrete shouldn't even come into it. The woman is feeding her baby, FFS, stop being such an ignorant gob****e.

Breastfeeding mothers try to be discrete but sometimes it's not possible as you might have a squirming baby who is unsettled or whatever. And if you have a squirming baby who is hungry or unsettled, then the last thing you are going to be worrying about is the precious moron sitting at the next table getting their pants in a twist over you feeding your baby. If you have a problem seeing a bit of nipple, then I suggest you seek some counselling for being offended by a pair of boobs doing what they are there for. Get over yourself.

It's a piss poor reflection on society in Ireland and the UK that breastfeeding mothers should feel dirty or ashamed for feeding their baby. The only people who should feel ashamed are those who bitch and moan about a woman feeding her baby the way baby is supposed to be fed. And those who think there's something sexual about a woman feeding her baby the milk that her body produced for her baby are sick individuals.

Venus In Furs · 03-12-2014 10:06PM

I'd agree with being discreet/covering your boob when you can. I'd do that myself if breastfeeding (I'm not saying it's easy to keep it covered all the time of course when breastfeeding) - yeh it might not seem rational for people to feel a bit uncomfortable with it - it might be social conditioning at play to an extent - but if they do, they do. I wouldn't want people seeing too much of my breast in public either. Not saying that's how others have to feel, or that I'm right, but it's just my personal view on the matter.
But that doesn't mean I'm opposed to breastfeeding in public (I'm very much in favour of it - the suggestion to express a bottle before going out doesn't take into account how difficult and lengthy a process expressing can be; a baby might start crying for a feed when the bottles have run out too).
I didn't see Ash lambaste anyone?

dubstarr · 03-12-2014 10:18PM

I couldnt express it never worked out for me.I was quicker feeding the baby myself.And it was a good exscuse to sit down while they were feeding and drink or eat cause i had 2 free hands.

5uspect · 03-12-2014 11:08PM

Breastfeeding in public is protected under Irish Law.
The Hotel ****ed up.
/Thread

bodice ripper · 03-12-2014 11:44PM

Perhaps the restaurant could also provide a tent outside, so the menstruating women can eat.

blacklilly · 04-12-2014 12:27AM

ash23 wrote: »

So you think all breastfeeding women are beyond reproach no matter how much they expose and no matter where? Naked photos are OK on Facebook once a baby is attached to one breast?
No decorum or subtlety is needed at all?

Personally I think a bit of cop on is a better approach and the extremists who breastfeed in the most indiscreet way ever just for an "up yours" are as much of a problem as the person who complains about a woman feeding discreetly.
I don't like breastfeeders who think its a cause and deliberately set out to shock or make people uncomfortable. And I don't think they should be abovebeing called on it because they're helping nobody

I'd say the last thing on most mothers mind when their breast feeding is to shock on lookers, their primary concern is to feed their child and stope their child from crying. Give me a baby sucking on a breast over a whaling baby anyday:pac:

You have continuously grasped on some of these so called "extremists", I'm not sure how you can justify connecting the word extremist to breast feeding.

I have zero issue seeing a woman breast feed, in fact I barely give it a second thought.

evolving_doors · 04-12-2014 01:30AM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Ah be fair - sh1tting and peeing are clearly directly comparable with breastfeeding.
Well, apart from the whole feeding-a-hungry-baby element, but other than that minor difference... pretty much the exact same!

Hmm yes... indeed that logic is pretty much the exact same as the foul output that seeps from the orifice of someone's mind onto the keyboard that wrote it... (other than the minor difference that the mind doesn't have an orifice!! does it?).

jonon9 · 04-12-2014 02:00AM

So the moral of the story is people get offended by the sight of a woman feeding her baby with breast. First world problems, If that offends you than you must be one easily offended person. I rather see a woman breastfeed than a woman making a nice steamy fart in the restaurant.

osarusan · 04-12-2014 04:08AM

I don't really see why anybody would be offended by the sight of a woman breastfeeding a child in a restaurant (or anywhere else).

Having said that, I don't really think it's a big deal to be asked to cover it up either, and not inherently 'shocking and humiliating.'

volchitsa · 04-12-2014 07:33AM

osarusan wrote: »

I don't really see why anybody would be offended by the sight of a woman breastfeeding a child in a restaurant (or anywhere else).

Having said that, I don't really think it's a big deal to be asked to cover it up either, and not inherently 'shocking and humiliating.'

Have to disagree there. It's one thing to choose to cover it up yourself, quite another to be told in effect that what you think is reasonable behaviour is actually causing a scandal. It's the fact of someone else telling you your behaviour is unacceptable that is humiliating.
I don't think you can argue it both ways - if it's unreasonable to be shocked, it's unacceptable to tell the woman her behaviour is offensive, and if it's reasonable to tell her to "cover that up, it's offensive", then it's the person who is offended who is being reasonable.

osarusan · 04-12-2014 07:56AM

volchitsa wrote: »

Have to disagree there. It's one thing to choose to cover it up yourself, quite another to be told in effect that what you think is reasonable behaviour is actually causing a scandal. It's the fact of someone else telling you your behaviour is unacceptable that is humiliating.

If she was told that her behaviour was unacceptable or unreasonable and was causing a scandal, I can see why she'd be upset, but that would be an extremely insensitive way of speaking to a breastfeeding mother.

If a manager said that there are/may be some old-fashioned customers who feel uncomfortable and that they would be grateful if she covered herself, would it still be a shocking and humiliating experience?

I think that the issue of shock and humiliation would depend on how the message was conveyed to the mother.

How Strange · 04-12-2014 08:20AM

osarusan wrote: »

If she was told that her behaviour was unacceptable or unreasonable and was causing a scandal, I can see why she'd be upset, but that would be an extremely insensitive way of speaking to a breastfeeding mother.

If a manager said that there are/may be some old-fashioned customers who feel uncomfortable and that they would be grateful if she covered herself, would it still be a shocking and humiliating experience?

I think that the issue of shock and humiliation would depend on how the message was conveyed to the mother.

Thankfully the law is here to protect breastfeeding women.

All of the above 'helpful suggestions' are completely illegal.

The shock and humiliation would be reserved for the place of business when they're prosecuted.

Btw do any of these people with delicate constitutions and rubber necks (can't look away) ask the zoo staff to cover the animals up when they breastfeed their babies? I've yet to see a gorilla wearing a muslin cloth.

up for anything · 04-12-2014 08:21AM

osarusan wrote: »

If she was told that her behaviour was unacceptable or unreasonable and was causing a scandal, I can see why she'd be upset, but that would be an extremely insensitive way of speaking to a breastfeeding mother.

If a manager said that there are/may be some old-fashioned customers who feel uncomfortable and that they would be grateful if she covered herself, would it still be a shocking and humiliating experience?

I think that the issue of shock and humiliation would depend on how the message was conveyed to the mother.

That's rubbish. The message doesn't need to be conveyed to the mother at all. There are other behaviours that take place in hotels that should be addressed by staff well before a public breastfeeding mother.

As for old-fashioned customers - what age group are you talking about? From my past experience and my daughter's ongoing experience with breastfeeding it's mainly the younger people who are shocked and don't know where to put their faces.

IvyTheTerrible · 04-12-2014 08:23AM

osarusan wrote: »

If she was told that her behaviour was unacceptable or unreasonable and was causing a scandal, I can see why she'd be upset, but that would be an extremely insensitive way of speaking to a breastfeeding mother.

If a manager said that there are/may be some old-fashioned customers who feel uncomfortable and that they would be grateful if she covered herself, would it still be a shocking and humiliating experience?

I think that the issue of shock and humiliation would depend on how the message was conveyed to the mother.

Then maybe the manager should have asked the "old fashioned customers" to move to a part of the room where they couldn't see the breastfeeding mother.

Breastfeeding in Public places

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