Breastfeeding in Public places

Shrap · 03-12-2014 06:54PM

ash23 wrote: »

So why do we have to accept the extreme?

Perhaps because it's still such an issue for some people that a woman feeding her baby in a restaurant is given a napkin to cover up with, even though she wasn't "whipping em out". Perhaps we need to accept that some people are making a point of it so as to highlight the societal issues around breastfeeding.

Penny Tration · 03-12-2014 06:54PM

This thread reminds me of a time I was in a friend's house. I had a low cut vest top on.

I was holding her young baby. After a while, the little lady started to try latch on to one of my boobs, presumably because they were big, exposed and she was hungry.

I found it funny, but the mum was mortified, even though I'm a friend! She kept apologising and left the room to feed the little one.

I asked her about the apology and leaving the room. Apparently she used to get a lot of stick from family and friends when feeding her baby around them. So she used to go to her bedroom with the baby, and wouldn't feed in public. I'm quite sad she felt the need to do that.

eviltwin · 03-12-2014 07:01PM

ash23 wrote: »

I was told my problem with seeing a woman breastfeeding was sexual and asked did I have a problem with a man shirtless. I do depending on context and its not a sexual thing.
I breastfed and have no issue with breastfeeding in public. I don't expect a baby to starve or go to the loo to be fed etc etc.
I really can't keep repeating myself

Shirtless men aren't sexual either. Why is naked flesh such an issue?

ash23 · 03-12-2014 07:02PM

Shrap wrote: »

Perhaps because it's still such an issue for some people that a woman feeding her baby in a restaurant is given a napkin to cover up with, even though she wasn't "whipping em out". Perhaps we need to accept that some people are making a point of it so as to highlight the societal issues around breastfeeding.

Is that actually going to help. If anything it will turn people off breastfeeders. I worried about how to feed discreetly in public because I'm not an exhibitionist. I realised it's easy to do discreetly. Why is discretion seen as such a tabboo in the breastfeeding world? When the last thing most women want is to "whip them out". But to suggest that discretion be a part of breastfeeding publicly is akin to saying you're going to feed your baby vodka.
Even the nurses in the hospital don't respect a woman that might prefer to be discreet. My breasts were practically mauled by a midwife trying to get baby to latch and I had to express in the nursery with people coming and going. But to say " I'd prefer privacy " is seen as some sort of crime against the sisterhood.

ash23 · 03-12-2014 07:03PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Shirtless men aren't sexual either. Why is naked flesh such an issue?

That was my point

Shrap · 03-12-2014 07:03PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Shirtless men aren't sexual either. Why is naked flesh such an issue?

Ah ha! But they offend her and so they should show some more decorum? Rather than the slightly more obvious solution of getting over the whole "naked flesh" problem (or recognising it's their problem, even).

SpaceTime · 03-12-2014 07:05PM

OK so which is 'weirder' ?

1) Feed the baby using your own handy milk supply that produces perfectly adapted baby food, always fresh and on tap as per billions of years of evolution?

Or

2) Milk a cow with a big machine, have the cow's milk pasteurised and processed adding various extra ingredients and removing others to make it approximate human milk. Then spray dry it. Put it into a box / carton and ship it hundreds/thousands of km to a supermarket. Bring it home, reconstitute it with tap water and warm it back up. Stick it into a bottle with an artificial nipple on the top and feed that to your baby..

ash23 · 03-12-2014 07:10PM

Shrap wrote: »

Ah ha! But they offend her and so they should show some more decorum? Rather than the slightly more obvious solution of getting over the whole "naked flesh" problem (or recognising it's their problem, even).

Did I say I was offended? Nope. You're choosing to put your own spin on it.

As I said breastfeeding is not sexual to me. I think there's a time and place for feeding indiscreetly. Like at home most women feed much differently to in public. A shirtless man on a beach isn't inappropriate. A topless man in a restaurant or a job interview is less appropriate and it has nothing to do with sex. Not that difficult to understand.

volchitsa · 03-12-2014 07:11PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

OK so which is 'weirder' ?

1) Feed the baby using your own handy milk supply that produces perfectly adapted baby food, always fresh and on tap as per billions of years of evolution?

Or

2) Milk a cow with a big machine, have the cow's milk pasteurised and processed adding various extra ingredients and removing others to make it approximate human milk. Then spray dry it. Put it into a box / carton and ship it hundreds/thousands of km to a supermarket. Bring it home, reconstitute it with tap water and warm it back up. Stick it into a bottle with an artificial nipple on the top and feed that to your baby..

This is exactly the thing - it is our equivalent of Victorians coving up piano legs for decorum. It says more about the weird hypersexualization in the minds of the people who feel the need for that sort of thing than any "exhibitionism" by some who refuse to pander to it ever could. Fair play to them, and I wish I'd been braver when I was concerned (my youngest is in secondary school now!)

Shrap · 03-12-2014 07:11PM

ash23 wrote: »

Is that actually going to help. If anything it will turn people off breastfeeders. I worried about how to feed discreetly in public because I'm not an exhibitionist. I realised it's easy to do discreetly. Why is discretion seen as such a tabboo in the breastfeeding world? When the last thing most women want is to "whip them out". But to suggest that discretion be a part of breastfeeding publicly is akin to saying you're going to feed your baby vodka.
Even the nurses in the hospital don't respect a woman that might prefer to be discreet. My breasts were practically mauled by a midwife trying to get baby to latch and I had to express in the nursery with people coming and going. But to say " I'd prefer privacy " is seen as some sort of crime against the sisterhood.

I don't agree. I think it will normalise breastfeeding.

Honestly ash, I'm sorry to be blunt with you, but your shame about your own body should not be transferred to other people. Breasts to a midwife are a normal feeding mechanism and will be mauled and pushed into that perspective whether the owner of them has some inhibitions about them being on view or not! Life is too short to be having minor privacy issues in a hospital I'm afraid.

I don't subscribe to any notion of "sisterhood" but I do subscribe to keeping bodily shame to yourself so you don't transfer it to others. My own mother did a great job of trying to shame me, and I swear it's one of the most damaging things I ever see people passing onto their children.

Ps. (edit) For what it's worth, I think it's great you did breastfeed despite your reserve about your body. Fair play to you.

dark crystal · 03-12-2014 07:15PM

ash23 wrote: »

Is that actually going to help. If anything it will turn people off breastfeeders. I worried about how to feed discreetly in public because I'm not an exhibitionist. I realised it's easy to do discreetly. Why is discretion seen as such a tabboo in the breastfeeding world? When the last thing most women want is to "whip them out". But to suggest that discretion be a part of breastfeeding publicly is akin to saying you're going to feed your baby vodka.
Even the nurses in the hospital don't respect a woman that might prefer to be discreet. My breasts were practically mauled by a midwife trying to get baby to latch and I had to express in the nursery with people coming and going. But to say " I'd prefer privacy " is seen as some sort of crime against the sisterhood.

I don't think anyone has an issue with discretion at all. The vast majority of mums breastfeed perfectly discreetly as and when they need to.

What percentage of mothers breast feeding in public would you call exhibitionist and how would you define the term? Do you honestly believe that some women are publicly breastfeeding their babies just to show their tits off to the assembled crowd?

ash23 · 03-12-2014 07:17PM

Shrap wrote: »

I don't agree. I think it will normalise breastfeeding.

Honestly ash, I'm sorry to be blunt with you, but your shame about your own body should not be transferred to other people. Breasts to a midwife are a normal feeding mechanism and will be mauled and pushed into that perspective whether the owner of them has some inhibitions about them being on view or not! Life is too short to be having privacy issues in a hospital I'm afraid.

I don't subscribe to any notion of "sisterhood" but I do subscribe to keeping bodily shame to yourself so you don't transfer it to others. My own mother did a great job of trying to shame me, and I swear it's one of the most damaging things I ever see people passing onto their children.

Just because I believe different situations require us to behave differently doesn't mean I have body shame. What I wear to work or to bed or to see a friend varies depending on the situation.how we behave with our boss vs. our mates is different. It's absurd to say that just because I don't feel comfortable showing strangers my breasts means I'm ashamed of my body.
My that logic get rid of labour wards and curtains around the beds because wanting privacy means we are ashamed of our bodies. Jesus project much?

Shrap · 03-12-2014 07:19PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that some women are publicly breastfeeding their babies just to show their tits off to the assembled crowd?

I know she can answer for herself, but from what I've picked up, it's more to do with the "Look at me, I'm breastfeeding whatever the f way I want in public and I dare you to say anything to stop me or tell me to cover up" notion. The type of *ahem* "exhibitionist" who clearly wouldn't be relevant if breastfeeding in public was more normalised.

SpaceTime · 03-12-2014 07:20PM

volchitsa wrote: »

This is exactly the thing - it is our equivalent of Victorians coving up piano legs for decorum. It says more about the weird hypersexualization in the minds of the people who feel the need for that sort of thing than any "exhibitionism" by some who refuse to pander to it ever could. Fair play to them, and I wish I'd been braver when I was concerned (my youngest is in secondary school now!)

The victorians have a lot to answer for!

The worst I've seen was the "Bathing Machine".

They literally went swimming in a small shed on wheels! It was the 19th century equivalent of the bikini. You simply got in, and had it rolled out into the sea.. went for a swim and nobody could see you.

ash23 · 03-12-2014 07:20PM

dark crystal wrote: »

I don't think anyone has an issue with discretion at all. The vast majority of mums breastfeed perfectly discreetly as and when they need to.

What percentage of mothers breast feeding in public would you call exhibitionist and how would you define the term? Do you honestly believe that some women are publicly breastfeeding their babies just to show their tits off to the assembled crowd?

Lol there have been loads of public breastfeed events as protest. Its pretty common.
Some discreet and others there to be as outrageous as they can

Shrap · 03-12-2014 07:24PM

ash23 wrote: »

My that logic get rid of labour wards and curtains around the beds because wanting privacy means we are ashamed of our bodies. Jesus project much?

But by your own logic, the breasts on show for the purpose of feeding a baby are something to be ashamed of (discreet about - however you want to put it), and a glimpse of breast in public is exhibitionist/extremist. There is a rather large difference between seeing a woman breastfeeding and watching the rather gory view of her private (see what I did there?) parts in the labour ward. Perspective is a good thing.

Most folks up here with a problem about it are of the view that breasts are private parts, whereas in reality, they are to be shared with baby. I think that's the problem.

tinkerbell · 03-12-2014 07:29PM

What in the actual fook am I reading? There is something seriously wrong with society these days, it's an absolute feckin disgrace. If someone told me to cover up while feeding my baby in a public place, I'd tell them to fck right off. News flash to those idiots who get offended by breastfeeding - that's what breasts are for, to feed a baby, if you don't like it then STFU and go back to the cave you crawled out of.

I don't understand why people get so uppity about breastfeeding in a restaurant. If you think a baby should have to eat their meal in a toilet, then YOU go eat your meal in the toilet too and see how you like it, FFS. Feckin morons.

Glad to see whoops banned a few trolls. Comparing breastfeeding with someone urinating, going for a crap or whipping their penis out in public are sick individuals.

ash23 · 03-12-2014 07:29PM

Shrap wrote: »

But by your own logic, the breasts on show for the purpose of feeding a baby are something to be ashamed of (discreet about - however you want to put it), and a glimpse of breast in public is exhibitionist/extremist. There is a rather large difference between seeing a woman breastfeeding and watching the rather gory view of her private (see what I did there?) parts in the labour ward. Perspective is a good thing.

Most folks up here with a problem about it are of the view that breasts are private parts, whereas in reality, they are to be shared with baby. I think that's the problem.

Shared with a baby. No problem. Shared with the world? Less so. Again it's not about shame. I used to let it all hang out at home when feeding. Didn't give a crap because it was me and baby.
But when out in public I appreciated that not everyone wants to be presented with a leaky nipple and most won't appreciate it the way my hungry baby did so I fed in a more subtle way. Its merely a case of being aware of surroundings.
What's completely acceptable at home isn't always as acceptable when out in public and that applies to loads of things.

Penny Tration · 03-12-2014 07:30PM

Ash, genuine question, and I'm not trying to attack you or set you up for an attack, just curious!

You say you're fine with mothers publicly breastfeeding once they're discreet.

Does this mean if they use a muslin or similar? Or does it also include those mums who don't use a muslin, but are discreet enough that you see a small bit of flesh (no nipple)?

I'm just asking because I've never seen someone feed using a muslin, but have seen plenty feed without, where you could barely see a thing.

ash23 · 03-12-2014 07:34PM

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

Ash, genuine question, and I'm not trying to attack you or set you up for an attack, just curious!

You say you're fine with mothers publicly breastfeeding once they're discreet.

Does this mean if they use a muslin or similar? Or does it also include those mums who don't use a muslin, but are discreet enough that you see a small bit of flesh (no nipple)?

I'm just asking because I've never seen someone feed using a muslin, but have seen plenty feed without, where you could barely see a thing.

My limit would be about here
http://www.demotix.com/photo/2165115/danish-mothers-protest-against-discrimination-breastfeeding&popup=1

I think that's just being an exhibitionist

I used a muslin depending on how bubs was feeding. Front feeding I didn't. Rugby ball style I did because more of my breast and chest was exposed.

Penny Tration · 03-12-2014 07:38PM

ash23 wrote: »

My limit would be about here
http://www.demotix.com/photo/2165115/danish-mothers-protest-against-discrimination-breastfeeding&popup=1

I think that's just being an exhibitionist

I actually agree with that statement with regards to the lady in the photo.

I understand her reasons for doing it, but yep, it's all about 'I'm feeding, I do what I want, deal with it'

I don't disagree with it, but I agree with you that it is very clearly exhibitionism, however much I agree with the reasoning behind it.

Shrap · 03-12-2014 07:42PM

ash23 wrote: »

What's completely acceptable at home isn't always as acceptable when out in public and that applies to loads of things.

Yes and interestingly, people have often had to protest to highlight discrimination against them for load of things. I'm thinking of mixed race couples/same sex couples who couldn't hold hands in public. I realise they are not the same issues, but it very much leads onto your point below.

ash23 wrote: »

My limit would be about here
http://www.demotix.com/photo/2165115/danish-mothers-protest-against-discrimination-breastfeeding&popup=1

I think that's just being an exhibitionist

She is being exhibitionist for this reason: "A woman and mother is breastfeeding her child in front of Copenhagen City Hall in a protest of the new breastfeeding ban where cafes and restaurants are allowed to tell breastfeeding wearing to leave." It is a little disingenuous to say you draw the line here, when she is clearly going further (in terms of exposing herself) than she needs to in order to feed her baby as a PROTEST against a societal problem with breastfeeding. Fair play that woman. It's a great picture to my mind. Epic even...

volchitsa · 03-12-2014 07:46PM

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

I actually agree with that statement with regards to the lady in the photo.

I understand her reasons for doing it, but yep, it's all about 'I'm feeding, I do what I want, deal with it'

I don't disagree with it, but I agree with you that it is very clearly exhibitionism, however much I agree with the reasoning behind it.

Yes, but the point there is that it is a protest. It's a bit like complaining about people making too much noise shouting when they're out marching against the water charges - well, duh!

Using that to back up a claim that some women breastfeed in order to assuage their exhibitionist tendencies is downright madness.

volchitsa · 03-12-2014 07:47PM

You got there before me, Shrap!

Shrap · 03-12-2014 07:48PM

volchitsa wrote: »

You got there before me, Shrap!

You used less words :cool:

ash23 · 03-12-2014 07:50PM

I get that she's at a protest so fair enough. But if she was feeding like that at the table next to me, not protesting, I would want her to cover up and I don't think she should be surprised if someone complained.

Shrap · 03-12-2014 07:58PM

ash23 wrote: »

I get that she's at a protest so fair enough. But if she was feeding like that at the table next to me, not protesting, I would want her to cover up and I don't think she should be surprised if someone complained.

But most of us have a certain sense of decorum ash. I very much doubt that you'd see that same woman sitting next to you in a restaurant like that. Why would she? I mean, you actually had to search for that image, when other images in that protest were much more like what you actually see on a regular basis.

http://static4.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_crop_small_aspect/2100-8/photos/1380655323-danish-mothers-protest-against-discrimination-of-breastfeeding_2165118.jpg

There is no need to expose the breast more than is necessary to feed the baby (unless you're making a big fat protesting point of it), and it's not necessary to expose yourself because that's not the reason you're doing it. The reason is to feed your baby. Nothing else. I didn't "whip out my boobs" in a public restaurant because I wanted to, I carefully and politely let out enough boob for my baby to feed from. And that was highlighted and made a show of by the people who had a different idea of it, do you see? It was their problem, not mine. The protests wouldn't happen if people who object to publc breastfeeding didn't make a show of the issue.

y0ssar1an22 · 03-12-2014 08:04PM

Gotta love the 'its natural argument'. So is pi$$ing and $hitting and away to the toilet with you.

Don't post in this thread again.

Mod

03-12-2014 08:06PM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Gotta love the 'its natural argument'. So is pi$$ing and $hitting and away to the toilet with you.

You have to wonder about people who think feeding a baby is like sh!tting in public.

Penny Tration · 03-12-2014 08:11PM

Candie wrote: »

You have to wonder about people who think feeding a baby is like sh!tting in public.

Same people seem to think that having dinner in a bathroom is grand.

I presume they have no issue with sitting on the toilet when they want a sambo or a pint?

Breastfeeding in Public places

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