Tractor Backhoe or JCB 3cx or similar.

223vmax · 02-05-2014 12:44PM #1

I need a bit of tidying/digging doing around the place so I started looking at JCB's on donedeal etc. However for the money, would I be better to buy a tractor and separate backhoe attachment or go with dedicated JCB? I would have a use for the tractor eg pulling turf and the odd job around. What kind of money would a backhoe attachment cost and how do they attach to the tractor? Would any tractor drive a backhoe?

munkus · 02-05-2014 12:51PM

I'd say you'd be better off with a 3CX. I'd imagine you'd make shyte of the tractor long term. We bought a 3CX about 16 years ago for 8K and was the best money every spent.

_Brian · 02-05-2014 01:48PM

223vmax wrote: »

I need a bit of tidying/digging doing around the place so I started looking at JCB's on donedeal etc. However for the money, would I be better to buy a tractor and separate backhoe attachment or go with dedicated JCB? I would have a use for the tractor eg pulling turf and the odd job around. What kind of money would a backhoe attachment cost and how do they attach to the tractor? Would any tractor drive a backhoe?

Jump onto youtube and look at some of the tractor mounted backhoes in action..

None seem anywhere as strong or robust as a 3cx of any era.
Moving must be a pain, lift jacks, jump down, up onto tractor, move, jump off tractor, up onto backhoe, lower jacks, realise your a foot in the wrong place.. through the whole thing again !!:mad:

And anything that looks like its in good condition is 1/3 price of a useable 3cx.

for what they could do I'd say a good one would be worth a punt at maybe €2-300, but they are looking 5-6 times thatfor them online.

Has anyone here actually used one ??

Nekarsulm · 02-05-2014 02:06PM

Used a little "Foster" back actor. It was best suited to something like a Major, or some tractor without a cab. also be careful attaching it to the tractor, would be easy to get caught and crushed. OK for digging a hole for a gatepost or something, but not for anything major. Also, unless you can leave it permanently attached, it would be a bit of a procedure putting it on for a small job.

Zoo4m8 · 02-05-2014 06:00PM

Have a McConnell for years, done miles of drainage with a tongue bucket, great for all sorts of jobs and easy to put on tractor, even dug the foundations for my first house! Buried sheep( when it was allowed......) cleaned ditches/ streams,

But, having said all that, go buy a 3cx. As Brian says the constant jumping up and down to move is a pain in the donkey, when I was twenty years younger it was no problem but now I'm also looking for a 3cx !

yellow50HX · 02-05-2014 06:25PM

Pay the extra money and get a proper digger. You will always be sell it on later.

joejobrien · 02-05-2014 07:16PM

Forget about those tractor backactors, the look and strenght of them will nearly give you an idea of the output from them.
Would you not consider getting in a contarator do do the job as it will take you a hell of alot longer , burning more fuel, wont be as tasty as a lad digging on a daily basis so job could be a bit rough etc etc. Buy your tractor to pull your trailer and whatever jobs it can do. You will get alot of work done for 1k /yrwith a 10/13 tonne machine . that wont go very far on a jcb over a couple years.

_Brian · 03-05-2014 08:46AM

Yes and no to that joe.
Yes there is nothing like the work a good lad on a track machine will do in a day.
But.
What about that small 30 minute job that could be done yourself any evening. We had a lad in last autum for 2 days and I had a raft of these small jobs to be done. I had to take time off work too to be there to get it all done. Most were jobs I could have done bits at a time myself without using annual leave from work.

Horses for courses but A reasonable 3cx would be mighty handy.

joejobrien · 03-05-2014 11:19AM

Yes Brian I take your point. A digger would be a better option just bare in mind the costs assocatied with a digger vs contractor. I know its handy to do 1/2 hr work but it could be expensive if your going to spend say6/8grand on a machine for a bit of tidying and scratching. Would there be a better return for that monery in something else? By the way , we have a 360 and rubber tyred digger but digger is going everyday for 6 mts and remainder of time every 2/3 day thereafter. The 360 is very very handy, works a fair bit of time on hire but I would hate to just have it for my own use sitting in yard 85/90% of time the cost /hr would be high if your not doing a good lot work.

littlevillage · 03-12-2014 05:41PM

Find myself in this situation too.

Have a good bit of rough land... maybe 20-30 acres .. that could do with tidying up (and in some places, serious works). Have put off hiring somebody in to do it ..as it would be very expensive and I might never see the return....also honestly I wouldn't know where to start :-(
I suppose I am pernickety enough too and I wouldn't be trusting anybody to do the job right (so I would insist on being there and 'managing' the work myself)

I have hired out mini diggers in the past for doing small jobs etc. Very handy and very easy to use too.. can be expensive though if you are keeping them for extended periods of time.

Now I am thinking (much like the OP) of maybe buying something myself.. and tackling various jobs when I have little bits of free time. (half a day here, half a day there etc.) of the various yokes that can be bought for lets say a notional €10k, the most useful and flexible would probably be a backhoe (JCB 3CX or similar from MF, Case, New Holland). The rubber tyres (for road transport) and a choice of scoops giving it the edge over the various types of track machines.

Problem is though .. if a fella bought something like this

http://www.donedeal.ie/plantmachinery-for-sale/jcb-3cx-turbo-1992/8196403

1). are they fragile enough? and costly to repair/maintain? ...there's lots of complicated looking hydralics!!
2). and I suppose the big question, are they a waste of money or are they very useful? by this I mean would a man find jobs to do with it that maybe he never thought of ? for example as a backup vehicle to the tractor. I see a local lad here transporting round bales on the front spikes of a Backhoe (I guess his tractor is in the 'Shop') that kind of thing ?

_Brian · 03-12-2014 05:52PM

littlevillage wrote: »

Find myself in this situation too.

Have a good bit of rough land... maybe 20-30 acres .. that could do with tidying up (and in some places, serious works). Have put off hiring somebody in to do it ..as it would be very expensive and I might never see the return....also honestly I wouldn't know where to start :-(
I suppose I am pernickety enough too and I wouldn't be trusting anybody to do the job right (so I would insist on being there and 'managing' the work myself)

I have hired out mini diggers in the past for doing small jobs etc. Very handy and very easy to use too.. can be expensive though if you are keeping them for extended periods of time.

Now I am thinking (much like the OP) of maybe buying something myself.. and tackling various jobs when I have little bits of free time. (half a day here, half a day there etc.) of the various yokes that can be bought for lets say a notional €10k, the most useful and flexible would probably be a backhoe (JCB 3CX or similar from MF, Case, New Holland). The rubber tyres (for road transport) and a choice of scoops giving it the edge over the various types of track machines.

Problem is though .. if a fella bought something like this

http://www.donedeal.ie/plantmachinery-for-sale/jcb-3cx-turbo-1992/8196403

1). are they fragile enough? and costly to repair/maintain? ...there's lots of complicated looking hydralics!!
2). and I suppose the big question, are they a waste of money or are they very useful? by this I mean would a man find jobs to do with it that maybe he never thought of ? for example as a backup vehicle to the tractor. I see a local lad here transporting round bales on the front spikes of a Backhoe (I guess his tractor is in the 'Shop') that kind of thing ?

Regarding hiring mini diggers..
Always ask the weekly/fortnightly rate.. it will be surprising compared to daily rate..

223vmax · 03-12-2014 07:04PM

I ended up borrowing a friends 3CX to test out. They are a bit more awkward for maneuvering around in the tighter spots and make a sh1te out of soft ground. Travelling over soft ground made a right mess. Once you get going though not so bad.

The I hired out a 3T Kubota for a bank holiday weekend and found it much easier to move around, it left little mess travelling over wet ground, less mess especially in tight spots and very easy to dig/work. I was surprised at how much I could do with the 3T in a weekends and ended up doing a cash deal for the 3T over a 2 week period and took the time off work. Luckily the weather was fine and I got done what I wanted to get done. If I didn't have the 2 weeks off, then I would have bought a decent 3T off done deal for ~€10K. I wouldn't buy a 3CX.

td5man · 03-12-2014 07:14PM

223vmax wrote: »

I ended up borrowing a friends 3CX to test out. They are a bit more awkward for maneuvering around in the tighter spots and make a sh1te out of soft ground. Travelling over soft ground made a right mess. Once you get going though not so bad.

The I hired out a 3T Kubota for a bank holiday weekend and found it much easier to move around, it left little mess travelling over wet ground, less mess especially in tight spots and very easy to dig/work. I was surprised at how much I could do with the 3T in a weekends and ended up doing a cash deal for the 3T over a 2 week period and took the time off work. Luckily the weather was fine and I got done what I wanted to get done. If I didn't have the 2 weeks off, then I would have bought a decent 3T off done deal for ~€10K. I wouldn't buy a 3CX.

For €10k you could get a lad with a 12-14 tonne machine for the most of 2 months.

littlevillage · 03-12-2014 07:25PM

Thanks for the thoughts lads.

Yeah, there's plenty of debate about which type and brand of machine is best etc. etc. The best one I read (in favour of the backhoe) was

"A swallow can fly faster than a duck, a dolphin can swim faster than a duck, a leopard can run faster than a duck. But the duck is the one that can fly, swim and run."

Which would suggest I suppose that the backhoe can do alot of things fairly well.. but maybe is not THE best at any single task.

The bigger question I suppose is : Is it worth buying any of these yokes and instead maybe trying to wrangle a good deal off a contractor or a plant hire pace instead ?

I do however like the idea of having another 4wd vehicle around the yard for pulling/pushing/messing that I tend to find myself upto fairly regularly :-)

f140 · 03-12-2014 08:07PM

I have a terex 860 (same as mf 860) wouldn't change it for the world. Push all the silage up the clamp. stacks bales and have a 5ft grab (should have got a 6ft). Backactor gets used for so much extra then you would think. was able to reach in a lift up a cow one day for a neighbour where his loader wasn't long enough.
numerous digging or poking. don't think the jcb 3cxs are as farmer friendly as they are not as good to push as the 860s. the 860s also have wider front tyres for grip. whatever you do anyway make sure it doesn't come with industrial wheels as they are a disaster.

if you have a tractor then that will just be the tractor and you will hardly ever use the loader in that as it will be so much slower. it will also allow you keep the tractor free for other jobs instead of having to swap weight blocks etc.

http://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/mf-860-digger/8071315

they will always be worth there money.

td5man · 03-12-2014 08:14PM

f140 wrote: »

I have a terex 860 (same as mf 860) wouldn't change it for the world. Push all the silage up the clamp. stacks bales and have a 5ft grab (should have got a 6ft). Backactor gets used for so much extra then you would think. was able to reach in a lift up a cow one day for a neighbour where his loader wasn't long enough.
numerous digging or poking. don't think the jcb 3cxs are as farmer friendly as they are not as good to push as the 860s. the 860s also have wider front tyres for grip. whatever you do anyway make sure it doesn't come with industrial wheels as they are a disaster.

if you have a tractor then that will just be the tractor and you will hardly ever use the loader in that as it will be so much slower. it will also allow you keep the tractor free for other jobs instead of having to swap weight blocks etc.

The 860 is some machine to push, pulled a D4 out of a bog after it lost one of its tracks.

stop thelights · 03-12-2014 09:00PM

td5man wrote: »

For €10k you could get a lad with a 12-14 tonne machine for the most of 2 months.

A month I'd say.

50 euro an hour 10hr days is 2500 per week by 4 is your ten k.

Plus if you are drawing with a dump trailer you've the cost of that. If you have your own machine you have your own time. So fill a load and off ya go and not rushing because someone else is on the clock...... Just giving the other side.

td5man · 03-12-2014 09:36PM

stop thelights wrote: »

A month I'd say.

50 euro an hour 10hr days is 2500 per week by 4 is your ten k.

Plus if you are drawing with a dump trailer you've the cost of that. If you have your own machine you have your own time. So fill a load and off ya go and not rushing because someone else is on the clock...... Just giving the other side.

€35/hour here, farmer can have the dump trailer foc if he has something to pull it with.
Worst thing about having your own machine is you do it in your own time, job drags on.
Where as when on hire you keep going to give the customer a decent days work .

Bullocks · 03-12-2014 10:02PM

td5man wrote: »

€35/hour here, farmer can have the dump trailer foc if he has something to pull it with.
Worst thing about having your own machine is you do it in your own time, job drags on.
Where as when on hire you keep going to give the customer a decent days work .

Job going on around here . They are giving €25 PH and supplying the diesel for a 20 tonne digger . Is that below normal rates nowadays ?

stop thelights · 03-12-2014 10:09PM

td5man wrote: »

€35/hour here, farmer can have the dump trailer foc if he has something to pull it with.
Worst thing about having your own machine is you do it in your own time, job drags on.
Where as when on hire you keep going to give the customer a decent days work .

So that's 6weeks work to spend ten k........

At 35 that fella is at nothing to be fair most mackines that size at 45 to 50 with a 20 tonner 65 around here anyway.

Most farmers have a tract and trailer of there own. You bring a fella in for a handy job, say weeks work you have to keep the digger going to get the most out of him. So that's two dump trailers another €80 an hour on top of your 35 so that's costing nearly 1200 a day. Yes yes your getting the job done quick but OP doesn't seam to be in a mad panic to get the job done.

Factor in repairs of a few thousand sell machine in a few years after you get your value out of it and I'd be surprised if you don't get at least 5k back.....diggers hold their value well

stop thelights · 03-12-2014 10:13PM

Bullocks wrote: »

Job going on around here . They are giving €25 PH and supplying the diesel for a 20 tonne digger . Is that below normal rates nowadays ?

Giving the operator 15 /hr leave 10 for the machine repairs/service and profit. Now that's shocking good value for the farmer. Unless he's a real bad operator and drags the job out a bit...... No brainer to get him in if them rates are to believed not around here though

Bullocks · 03-12-2014 10:18PM

stop thelights wrote: »

Giving the operator 15 /hr leave 10 for the machine repairs/service and profit. Now that's shocking good value for the farmer. Unless he's a real bad operator and drags the job out a bit...... No brainer to get him in if them rates are to believed not around here though

Seems cheap alright , its not a farm job . There are lads tripping over themselves to get diggers in for this crowd at that money all the same though

Count Mondego · 03-12-2014 10:39PM

Have a 3CX for the last 10 years. I wouldn't farm without one now, nearly as essential as the tractor.

2 things to watch for if buying one

1) Check if the kingpost is loose/worn. This is what turns the back hoe left and right. A balls to change out and expensive. Hard to control when she's worn.

2) Get a JCB with rams to that do the left to right pivot detailed above. Without these, there's very little power to push a stone or even clay. Newer models probably all have them

keep going · 04-12-2014 01:14AM

Have you allowed half as much time again spent keeping her going, buying one these on a budget of 10 grand is very risky not that you could buy one and she'd give no trouble but fellas arent giving 70k for new ones for no reason and nobody does any amount of land work with them now adays.

Zr105 · 04-12-2014 01:45AM

If time isn't an issue and you have patience their ok... It's a pain in the ass to dig any sort of a length with them really, jack up dig 10-12ft, hit a stone get dragged back to close to the trench to work, drop down, drive forward, jack back up dig another 10-12ft, drop down move forward... You get the idea.. And it's worse if your trying to clean out a ditch with a wide bucket, you end up moving for every 5-6 feet if your trying to keep it neat and tidy...

At the same time they are handy to have about, handy if you need to find a burst water pipe or dig out a gate post.

They are horrendously bad on wet ground tho. They will travel it but they will make a mess of it. Bear in mind that with a 4in1 up front and a 3ft bucket on the back your looking at over 7ton and the wheels aren't exactly that big on them.

Biggest thing to watch out for on older diggers is the torque transmission, if it's gone worn it will make climbing hills a painfully slow task, they can be reconditioned but it is another expense. The arm height at the back can be a major issue with low sheds to, although the newer arms(massey50hx/fermec 860's anyways) can drop the arm down near level with the cab without being stuck in the ground.

Try to keep the pins that lock the arm up and folded in in place if doing a lot of loader work. Shuttling back and forward puts a LOT more wear on the king pins and Rams than even heavy digging will ever do.

Oh and an absolute must is quick hitches back and front. You only get one set of hands, f'ing about trying to line up and get pins in just isn't worth it

eric prydz · 04-12-2014 05:37AM

littlevillage wrote: »

Find myself in this situation too.

Have a good bit of rough land... maybe 20-30 acres .. that could do with tidying up (and in some places, serious works). Have put off hiring somebody in to do it ..as it would be very expensive and I might never see the return....also honestly I wouldn't know where to start :-(
I suppose I am pernickety enough too and I wouldn't be trusting anybody to do the job right (so I would insist on being there and 'managing' the work myself)

I have hired out mini diggers in the past for doing small jobs etc. Very handy and very easy to use too.. can be expensive though if you are keeping them for extended periods of time.

Now I am thinking (much like the OP) of maybe buying something myself.. and tackling various jobs when I have little bits of free time. (half a day here, half a day there etc.) of the various yokes that can be bought for lets say a notional €10k, the most useful and flexible would probably be a backhoe (JCB 3CX or similar from MF, Case, New Holland). The rubber tyres (for road transport) and a choice of scoops giving it the edge over the various types of track machines.

Problem is though .. if a fella bought something like this

http://www.donedeal.ie/plantmachinery-for-sale/jcb-3cx-turbo-1992/8196403

1). are they fragile enough? and costly to repair/maintain? ...there's lots of complicated looking hydralics!!
2). and I suppose the big question, are they a waste of money or are they very useful? by this I mean would a man find jobs to do with it that maybe he never thought of ? for example as a backup vehicle to the tractor. I see a local lad here transporting round bales on the front spikes of a Backhoe (I guess his tractor is in the 'Shop') that kind of thing ?

If I was you id be going off and buying a 13 ton track machine in fairly good order and selling it on when you have your work done.
The wheel digger is grand around the yard or on building sites but totally useless in fields imo,the track machine will dig x3 times faster than the jcb.
Torques can be troublesome along with king posts aswell.

braddun · 04-12-2014 05:48AM

just hire a contractor

Willfarman · 04-12-2014 11:09AM

A digger contractor with a 13 tonne or even a 8 tonne machine is great value. Very few of these guys are minted with money so that'd nearly tell you!!

littlevillage · 04-12-2014 02:19PM

Great inputs lads.

This is my summary.

Contractors are great value if you are able to commit to doing a 'job' on a certain date and sticking to it.

A Backhoe is a seriously handy yoke to have around. Probably won't lose too much value over time on it either, if you buy carefully.
But they have limitations. Poor on wet ground and slow enough for doing any digging jobs.

In reality a track machine, is better that a backhoe for any kind of digging or clearing but not as flexible... for other kinds of shenanigans.

Regarding the technical stuff, just what I thought .. plenty that can go wrong with Backhoe or Track machine .. so wouldn't chance buying one without having an expert along with me anyway to give it the A-OK.

Thanks folks.

f140 · 04-12-2014 04:41PM

Zr105 wrote: »

If time isn't an issue and you have patience their ok... It's a pain in the ass to dig any sort of a length with them really, jack up dig 10-12ft, hit a stone get dragged back to close to the trench to work, drop down, drive forward, jack back up dig another 10-12ft, drop down move forward... You get the idea.. And it's worse if your trying to clean out a ditch with a wide bucket, you end up moving for every 5-6 feet if your trying to keep it neat and tidy...

At the same time they are handy to have about, handy if you need to find a burst water pipe or dig out a gate post.

They are horrendously bad on wet ground tho. They will travel it but they will make a mess of it. Bear in mind that with a 4in1 up front and a 3ft bucket on the back your looking at over 7ton and the wheels aren't exactly that big on them.

Biggest thing to watch out for on older diggers is the torque transmission, if it's gone worn it will make climbing hills a painfully slow task, they can be reconditioned but it is another expense. The arm height at the back can be a major issue with low sheds to, although the newer arms(massey50hx/fermec 860's anyways) can drop the arm down near level with the cab without being stuck in the ground.

Try to keep the pins that lock the arm up and folded in in place if doing a lot of loader work. Shuttling back and forward puts a LOT more wear on the king pins and Rams than even heavy digging will ever do.

Oh and an absolute must is quick hitches back and front. You only get one set of hands, f'ing about trying to line up and get pins in just isn't worth it

after a while you will never need to raise the legs once you get used to her. when you get handy with using it you simply lift the back legs off the ground with the backactor and push yourself forward with same

AntrimGlens · 04-12-2014 05:41PM

f140 wrote: »

after a while you will never need to raise the legs once you get used to her. when you get handy with using it you simply lift the back legs off the ground with the backactor and push yourself forward with same

I remember working on a job in Sydney with a fella from Tuam, he'd never driven a backhoe or excavator before but blagged his way onto driving one. Well the laugh we all had watching him one day standing at the back of this Case backhoe physically pushing the boom with his hands across the rails to get it to move. He was soon relegated to long tail shovel duties.

Tractor Backhoe or JCB 3cx or similar.

Comments