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The Legitimation of Woo Woo

  • 26-11-2014 05:03PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭


    I learned recently that the Health Products Registration Agency (formerly Irish Medicines Board) also regulate the sale of homeopathic products. For the life of me I cannot understand how such products are even given the dignity of being considered medicines. Pharmacists are instructed to counsel against the purchase of codeine based products like solpadeine and yet you can cheerfully spend money on Oscillococcinum a homeopathic preparation of duck liver diluted to such an extent (1 duck part to 10 to the power 400 parts of water) that it would require the observable universe to be five times bigger in order to have mathematical certainty that one preparation might contain a molecule of the original duck liver.

    Homeopathy is covered by health insurers, on sale in pharmacies, and regulated by a medicines board. Why then is there no mandatory warning on the dangers of homeopathy (It doesn't work, therefore people are dangerously delaying medical attention in favour of "alternative" medicine) numerous deaths can be attributed to unshakable faith in the woo woo, including infant deaths.
    http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

    Why then in a thinking, science based society where we warn people about the dangers of smoking, eating unhealthily, overuse of drugs and the fact that shares go down as well as up that there no requirement for a big sticker on this stuff saying that there is no known medical effect of homeopathy and that it is effectively a scam to part you with your money.

    So AH - should this stuff be banned or carry a warning. Should we a society stop legitimating this nonsense as being in any way a medical product?

    Should Homeopathy be... 69 votes

    Unregulated and freely available for sale
    0% 0 votes
    Regulated and carry a warning sticker
    34% 24 votes
    Banned
    65% 45 votes


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,237 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Can I just say that "jimgoose and The Legitimation of Woo Woo" would be a truly outstanding name for an electropunk band?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Everyone that buys any of these products should be first forced to watch this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Also I might as well post the Tim Minchin video before anyone else does...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,741 ✭✭✭Effects


    Can we ban churches at the same time as well?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Astonishingly homeopathic remedies are charged VAT at 0%, yet bottled water is charged at 23%.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Magico Gonzalez


    Effective darwinian filter perhaps...get sick, drink water, end up dead. Less burden on the HSE.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    To borrow a joke from Twitter - where are Homeopaths sans Frontieres during the Ebola outbreak?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Stupid believes stupid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Jawgap wrote: »
    To borrow a joke from Twitter - where are Homeopaths sans Frontieres during the Ebola outbreak?

    well there was a guy who created a homeopathic cure for ebola using an actual ebola sample and blogged about it on the web. I am not kidding.

    http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/yes-a-website-published-a-homeopathic-treatment-for-ebola-article--l1qdO2Pazg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭Calibos


    10 for 10 rationalist posts!! Bravo AH! Thought the thread would already be full of creduloids by now. ie. The morons that believe in it and the morons who don't believe in it but defend it, "Ah but sure if it makes them feel better" etc


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Calibos wrote: »
    10 for 10 rationalist posts!! Bravo AH! Thought the thread would already be full of creduloids by now. ie. The morons that believe in it and the morons who don't believe in it but defend it, "Ah but sure if it makes them feel better" etc

    they'll be along later. takes a while for the comprehension to kick in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭who the fug


    MadsL wrote: »
    Astonishingly homeopathic remedies are charged VAT at 0%, yet bottled water is charged at 23%.


    Spots loophole , catches horse hooks the coach up, prepares to start driving


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I think it can have a placebo benefit for some people that think they're sick. If some people believe it works and makes them better when medicine shows there's nothing wrong with them then placebos like this that have no medical effects are probably best because they're not harming their immune systems with real medicine.

    I think you could put warnings on the bottles though, you can tell these people that it has no medical benefit and they'll just ignore you, so you might as well put the warning on for people sitting on the fence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    I don't know what you're complaining about, homoeopathy is great. I bought homoeopathic cold medicine a while back, but as I was making my way home and crossing over the Liffy, I dropped the bottle and its contents leaked out and went into the river. Then, by the rules of homoeopathy, as the river flowed out to sea and the concoction got more and more diluted, this dramatically increased its potency. This is how I cured the common cold.

    I have been meaning to see if there is some sort of reward, I feel there should be, but I haven't been able to follow up with it as I've been a little under the weather recently. Not with a cold, of course, as nobody has to worry about that any more, I think I may have discovered some new illness with remarkably cold like symptoms.

    Seriously though, I had no idea they given such a seal of approval by the Irish government. I really need to stop getting surprised by each fresh disappointment given by the people we task with leading us.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,660 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    MadsL wrote: »
    Astonishingly homeopathic remedies are charged VAT at 0%, yet bottled water is charged at 23%.
    I think you've spotted a gap in the market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Joshua J


    So what would these warnings look like?. Careful: side effects may include partial hydration.

    I think people spend too much time looking for things to be outraged by.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,660 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    ScumLord wrote: »
    If some people believe it works and makes them better when medicine shows there's nothing wrong with them then placebos like this that have no medical effects are probably best because they're not harming their immune systems with real medicine.
    that's been debunked too

    Placebos work , even when you tell people they are placebos, even when those people are medically trained.

    There is no excuse for pretending homoeopathy is medicine.


    The worst that can happen is that a person on homoeopathy might not seek real medical help if their condition worsens while someone on sugar pills might.


    Steve Jobs can always be held up as an example of how willpower and being clever, rich and powerful is no match for real medical treatment.




    From 1965 , before most of us were born
    http://www.leecrandallparkmd.net/researchpages/placebo1.html
    From this study, we have learned that neurotic outpatients can be willing to take placebo even when the inert content is disclosed, at least in a situation presenting certain safeguards to them. In fact, many of the 15 patients appeared satisfied with the treatment; at least five patients desired to continue the placebo treatment and two felt no need of further treatment. One patient dropped out of treatment, but she manifested regret for having been talked out of continuing by her husband.

    The study has shown that unawareness of the inert nature of the placebo is not an indispensable condition for improvement on placebo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Spots loophole , catches horse hooks the coach up, prepares to start driving

    I thought about trying to sell homeopathic petrol as a joke, BUT IT ALREADY EXISTS!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Prenderb


    Jawgap wrote: »
    To borrow a joke from Twitter - where are Homeopaths sans Frontieres during the Ebola outbreak?

    As you were asking....

    https://www.vice.com/read/treating-ebola-with-homeopathy-393
    http://www.freunde-liberias.de/de/blog (Translation needed)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Calibos wrote: »
    10 for 10 rationalist posts!! Bravo AH! Thought the thread would already be full of creduloids by now. ie. The morons that believe in it and the morons who don't believe in it but defend it, "Ah but sure if it makes them feel better" etc

    The type of person who believes this type of stuff can barely dress themselves in the morning. Being able to access the internet is something for geniuses to them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Joshua J wrote: »
    So what would these warnings look like?. Careful: side effects may include partial hydration.

    I think people spend too much time looking for things to be outraged by
    .

    Yeah, we really should ignore people, including infants, dying after they have been given unqualified medical advice.

    http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html
    http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0602/D.0602.200505110015.html
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/702699.stm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    MadsL wrote: »
    Also I might as well post the Tim Minchin video before anyone else does...


    I love this for more reasons than I can count.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Knasher wrote: »
    Seriously though, I had no idea they given such a seal of approval by the Irish government. I really need to stop getting surprised by each fresh disappointment given by the people we task with leading us.

    I'm actually staggered that HPRA term homeopathic preparations as "homoepathic medicines"
    http://www.hpra.ie/homepage/medicines/medicines-information/homoeopathic-medicines


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,660 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Joshua J wrote: »
    think people spend too much time looking for things to be outraged by.
    I resent that remark :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    There should be a demonstrable therapeutic benefit for medicinal products with the exception that for certain product categories the demonstration of efficacy may not be required (e.g. homeopathic products – see below). If a medicinal claim is made, the consumer is entitled to expect a benefit and the review process should protect the consumer, so far as possible, from products which do not offer a potential for such benefit.
    https://www.hpra.ie/docs/default-source/publications-forms/guidance-documents/adv-g0003-guide-to-definition-of-a-human-medicine-v3.pdf?sfvrsn=6

    ...the fúck??

    This is enormously stupid - this is blasphemy-law level of idiocy really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Prenderb




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Prenderb wrote: »
    I don't think it is - the document specifically references Irish legislation, I think the EU just allowed member states to make up their own mind, where it comes to homeopathic medicine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    It should be labelled "for amusement purposes only".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭TPD


    Anyone who hasn't seen this, should see this:



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Beano wrote: »
    well there was a guy who created a homeopathic cure for ebola using an actual ebola sample and blogged about it on the web. I am not kidding.

    Just like antivenom....


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