Looting and Rioting in St. Louis (Merged)

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:00AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

Lucky him. That's the least he ought to be given. And he's been exonerated because he is innocent and was the victim of a violent attack by a massive Brown who tried to grab his gun.

Still- I guess being hounded for the past few months/being subjected to death threats and being unjustly accused of any number of false charges makes him the bad guy. Will you ever admit Brown was the aggressor just as the evidence has proved? Or will you keep deflecting the blame onto "people" and "the media" ?

I thought I said several times that brown was the aggressor but I don't think he deserved to be killed

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 06:00AM

h2005 wrote: »

Not much in that really the video is only a minute long. From twitter it seems extremely rare that a grand jury would not indict. Is it correct that to get an indictment it has to be unanimous across the 12?

Start @ 18:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjyZWtF6YSE

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 06:03AM

creolebelle wrote: »

I thought I said several times that brown was the aggressor but I don't think he deserved to be killed

We have already been over this but I will ask you again:

Wilson was attacked by a 6 foot 4 300 pound Brown. He was trying to take his gun. Wilson defended himself and had every right to do so.

"Deserving" is relevant in this scenario,how exactly?

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:05AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

We have already been over this but I will ask you again:

Wilson was attacked by a 6 foot 4 300 pound Brown. He was trying to take his gun. Wilson defended himself and had every right to do so.

"Deserving" is relevant in this scenario,how exactly?

He could have wounded him instead of firing 12 shots into/at brown. To me that's excessive force

Peanut · 25-11-2014 06:08AM

Police scanner stream (was posted already)

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/st-louis-county-police-scanner

Someone driving through the chaos

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/heatherdemian

Another live stream

http://www.ustream.tv/z

Thrill · 25-11-2014 06:09AM

Rioters are attempting to break into Ferguson City Hall

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 06:10AM

creolebelle wrote: »

Unarmed police forces would have to use other tactics to subdue violent criminal. If Wilson wasn't armed and trigger happy, brown would still be a live today. He would be in a jail cell but his parents would still have their son.

How do you know those deaths in Chicago don't bother the protesters?
I hate the term black on black on crime. Crime is Crime and most crimes committed in the states are intra-racial

1. False. Wilson was not "trigger happy". He was fighting to defend himself from a violent 300 pound Brown who was intent on getting his gun.
Stop blaming the victim.

2. The protesters never protest that violence with this kind of intensity-if they do at all. That's how I know.

3. Black men killing Black men never generates this kind of outrage and yet is out of control in many places: Detroit/Chicago etc. Doesn't matter if you "hate" the term or not.

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 06:12AM

creolebelle wrote: »

He could have wounded him instead of firing 12 shots into/at brown. To me that's excessive force

He was trying to stay alive whilst being attacked by a massive 300 pound man and did exactly what he needed to in order to survive.

Thankfully.

jank · 25-11-2014 06:15AM

creolebelle wrote: »

Gun control has everything to do with this. In other countries their uniformed police forces are unarmed so that situations like the brown case do not occur.
Do the Garda routinely carry firearms?
I don't see how I'm playing the blame game. People don't live in a vacuum. Many of our choices are controlled by external forces

Most countries in the world, their uniformed police do indeed carry arms. Australia for one along with many other European countries and Canada.

The Gardai do not carry arms generallyas Ireland does not have an issue with gun crime that is on par with places like Ferguson and South Chicago.
Are you seriously suggesting that the fault here lies with the fact that police carry guns in the US?

External forces don't excuse nor compel people to break the law and riot and loot shops that directly affect their own communities.

You are engaging in the usual blame game in this instance, this time the media. Last time it was the police. Cannot really blame the police anymore as they have been cleared...at least admit it.

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:15AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

1. False. Wilson was not "trigger happy". He was fighting to defend himself from a violent 300 pound Brown who was intent on getting his gun.
Stop blaming the victim.

2. The protesters never protest that violence with this kind of intensity-if they do at all. That's how I know.

3. Black men killing Black men never generates this kind of outrage and yet is out of control in many places: Detroit/Chicago etc. Doesn't matter if you "hate" the term or not.

1. I disagree with this. There is no victim this case
2. You don't know. You're assuming
3. It's a stupid term because white men killing white men isn't labeled white on white crime

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:16AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

He was trying to stay alive whilst being attacked by a massive 300 pound man and did exactly what he needed to in order to survive.

Thankfully.

An unarmed 300 pound man. If he scares that easily he should find another line of work

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:22AM

jank wrote: »

Most countries in the world, their uniformed police do indeed carry arms. Australia for one along with many other European countries and Canada.

The Gardai do not carry arms generallyas Ireland does not have an issue with gun crime that is on par with places like Ferguson and South Chicago.
Are you seriously suggesting that the fault here lies with the fact that police carry guns in the US?

External forces don't excuse nor compel people to break the law and riot and loot shops that directly affect their own communities.

You are engaging in the usual blame game in this instance, this time the media. Last time it was the police. Cannot really blame the police anymore as they have been cleared...at least admit it.

America's problem with gun violence has to do with our easy access to guns. Make it illegal for anyone to own a gun then it becomes unnecessary for cops to carry guns at all times
External forces absolutely shape our choices. The majority of psychologists and sociologists believe this. It's not excusing the behavior just explaining it.
Societies can't change for the better if we don't analyze the root causes of societal issues.
I'm not a resident of ferguson but many residents feel that the police are at fault.

BOHSBOHS · 25-11-2014 06:22AM

An unarmed 300 pound man who had committed robbery and assaulted a shopkeeper , who had just a minute ago assaulted the officer and made a grab for his gun , refused to stop and was charging towards the officer for another go.

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 06:23AM

creolebelle wrote: »

1. I disagree with this. There is no victim this case
2. You don't know. You're assuming
3. It's a stupid term because white men killing white men isn't labeled white on white crime

LOL! No victim? Yes-there certainly is a victim. His name is Darren Wilson and thankfully he's been cleared of all the smears against him. Well for those who deal in reality and facts that is. Sadly we see the fruits tonight of those who refuse to accept reality and surrender their "poor me-pity me" badges.

2. Yes I do know. I have a fondness for the aforementioned facts and reality in relation to this topic.

3. Sky high rates of Black on Black crime exist and do not ever get the kind of attention imaginary White on Black crimes (like the one we're watching get exposed tonight) get.

crybaby · 25-11-2014 06:27AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

He was trying to stay alive whilst being attacked by a massive 300 pound man and did exactly what he needed to in order to survive.

Thankfully.

Does being punched in the face justify you killing the other person?

I'm not so sure it does

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 06:28AM

crybaby wrote: »

Does being punched in the face justify you killing the other person?

I'm not so sure it does

What does any of that have to do with the topic we've been discussing here ...'baby'?

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:31AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

LOL! No victim? Yes-there certainly is a victim. His name is Darren Wilson and thankfully he's been cleared of all the smears against him. Well for those who deal in reality and facts that is. Sadly we see the fruits tonight of those who refuse to accept reality and surrender their "poor me-pity me" badges.

2. Yes I do know. I have a fondness for the aforementioned facts and reality in relation to this topic.

3. Sky high rates of Black on Black crime exist and do not ever get the kind of attention imaginary White on Black crimes (like the one we're watching get exposed tonight) get.

2.so you interviewed every single protester out there Tonight?
3. Yes high rates of crime exist in certain communities but I wouldn't call Wilson killing brown imaginary.

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 06:36AM

creolebelle wrote: »

2.so you interviewed every single protester out there Tonight?
3. Yes high rates of crime exist in certain communities but I wouldn't call Wilson killing brown imaginary.

You just can't help yourself. The "imaginary" was in reference to this being a "White on Black crime"-which it wasn't. Wilson defended himself against a violent Brown who was attempting to get his gun. It was self defense and he did nothing wrong.

I'm done with this endless round-about where one minute you profess to accept Brown as the aggressor and yet two or three posts later you're back to blaming Wilson lol. Enjoy

jank · 25-11-2014 06:37AM

creolebelle wrote: »

America's problem with gun violence has to do with our easy access to guns. Make it illegal for anyone to own a gun then it becomes unnecessary for cops to carry guns at all times
External forces absolutely shape our choices. The majority of psychologists and sociologists believe this. It's not excusing the behavior just explaining it.
Societies can't change for the better if we don't analyze the root causes of societal issues.
I'm not a resident if ferguson but many residents feel that the police are at fault.

Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the United States, yet suffer from huge gun crime..care to reconcile that?

It is fantasy stuff to try to ban all guns. Even in Ireland that has one of the strictest gun laws (because of the IRA) in the world there is gun crime and people mostly hunters and farmers have legally owned guns without much fuss.
It is cloud cuckoo land stuff to think that by just passing a law banning guns will solve crime to an extent that police don't have to carry guns. Its fairy land stuff!! Perhaps we should have a law against suicide, that will fix the problem right up!

If the majority of people believe that the police are at fault and not Brown himself then they are idiots who seek to be victims.

To end people have NO inherent right to riot!

suicide_circus · 25-11-2014 06:37AM

Damn media, making people loot liquor stores

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:40AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

You just can't help yourself. The "imaginary" was in reference to this being a "White on Black crime"-which it wasn't. Wilson defended himself against a violent Brown who was attempting to get his gun. It was self defense and he did nothing wrong.

I'm done with this endless round-about where one minute you profess to accept Brown as the aggressor and yet two or three posts later you're back to blaming Wilson lol. Enjoy

Brown was the aggressor but Wilson does share some of the culpability
Agree to disagree then. I do love a debate

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:43AM

jank wrote: »

Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the United States, yet suffer from huge gun crime..care to reconcile that?

It is fantasy stuff to try to ban all guns. Even in Ireland that has one of the strictest gun laws (because of the IRA) in the world there is gun crime and people mostly hunters and farmers have legally owned guns without much fuss.
It is cloud cuckoo land stuff to think that by just passing a law banning guns will solve crime to an extent that police don't have to carry guns. Its fairy land stuff!! Perhaps we should have a law against suicide, that will fix the problem right up!

If the majority of people believe that the police are at fault and not Brown himself then they are idiots who seek to be victims.

To end people have NO inherent right to riot!

It's high in Chicago because of the black market funded by the drug trade . The law has to be enforced not just passed.
Why do you think the states has such a huge problem with gun crime?

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:44AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Damn media, making people loot liquor stores

No one said that but they are at fault for getting people hyped up

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 06:45AM

creolebelle wrote: »

Brown was the aggressor but Wilson does share some of the culpability
Agree to disagree then. I do love a debate

blaming the victim endlessly is not debate.

but they are at fault

And neither is blaming the media.

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 06:49AM

creolebelle · 25-11-2014 06:52AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

blaming the victim endlessly is not debate.

And neither is blaming the media.

I thought you were done for the night.
Like I said earlier agree to disagree
You don't think the media hasn't been toying with people's emotions for higher ratings/clicks?

jank · 25-11-2014 06:59AM

creolebelle wrote: »

It's high in Chicago because of the black market funded by the drug trade . The law has to be enforced not just passed.
Why do you think the states has such a huge problem with gun crime?

So just more enforcement of the law and this issue will get better? The thing is though more enforcement will mean more police and guns in the black community. This will increase the tensions between black communities and the police. Wilson was enforcing the law as the Grand Jury has found but you think he is to blame for Browns death. You seem to want it both ways, you seem to me making up police and arguments as you go.

The states has an issue with gun crime because of socio economic and cultural factors. Legalising drugs imo would reduce this. There is a strong cultural aspect at play as well in some black communities that some people don't want to talk about. Broken homes, absent fathers, culture of playing the victim and a 'respect' for gangs all plays their part into the current issue.

suicide_circus · 25-11-2014 07:09AM

creolebelle wrote: »

No one said that but they are at fault for getting people hyped up

If people dont have the capacity to make an objective and considered judgement of a situation without allowing the media to hype them up, then I'm afraid "the media" is the least of their concerns.

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 07:18AM

Starts @ 18:00 mark. Full Grand Jury decision segment:

Amazingfun · 25-11-2014 07:19AM

creolebelle wrote: »

I thought you were done for the night.

I said I was done with your merry-go-round. And I am

Looting and Rioting in St. Louis (Merged)

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