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The bench press and the keyboard

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭Dwarf.Shortage


    Mellor wrote: »
    Heavy singles/doubles/triples every session?

    80kg is about 70% of your 1RM. You must have loads of reps in the tank there, 10-12 maybe. If you forgot about singles and double for a while and stuck to linear progression with 5RMs, adding 2.5kg each week. I say you'd hit 100kg x 5 within 2 months, possibly cruise past it also.

    Some of heavy doubles/singles/triples every session, not necessarily all three though.

    Yeah true, I think I'll up that to 90kg and see how many sets of five I finish (hopefully 5!) then do whatever is left to make up 5 sets with 80kg. Once I'm doing all five sets with 90kg bump starting weight to 95kg and after failing to get 5 reps drop to 90kg, then up to 100kg initial and so on and so forth. Definitely going too easy on myself with the 80kg at the minute, nice thing is I was failing to finish that 5x5 with 80kg only two or three months ago so it feels odd to be dismissing it now as too easy but I suppose 2/3 months is a fair bit of time you'd be expecting some sort of progress!

    Was 100.8kg when I got on the scales before training tonight, 95.2kg starting off 2/3 months back. I'd imagine half of that is water retention from creatine but I still seem to be putting on weight pretty quickly which is a good sign, until I hit 103/104 and I'm too big to get down to 100 to compete and too small to be competitive at 110kg! but sure I'll cross that bridge if I come to it, more pressing issues at hand ;)

    Absolutely relishing every chance to get under the bar at the minute, might be developing into an addiction tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,449 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Yeah true, I think I'll up that to 90kg and see how many sets of five I finish (hopefully 5!) then do whatever is left to make up 5 sets with 80kg. Once I'm doing all five sets with 90kg bump starting weight to 95kg and after failing to get 5 reps drop to 90kg, then up to 100kg initial and so on and so forth. Definitely going too easy on myself with the 80kg at the minute, nice thing is I was failing to finish that 5x5 with 80kg only two or three months ago so it feels odd to be dismissing it now as too easy but I suppose 2/3 months is a fair bit of time you'd be expecting some sort of progress!
    I generally increase when I hit 3 x 5. The way I see it, at that point I'm strong enough for repeated 5 rep sets at that weight, its just a case of sufficient rest periods.
    Was 100.8kg when I got on the scales before training tonight, 95.2kg starting off 2/3 months back. I'd imagine half of that is water retention from creatine but I still seem to be putting on weight pretty quickly which is a good sign, until I hit 103/104 and I'm too big to get down to 100 to compete and too small to be competitive at 110kg! but sure I'll cross that bridge if I come to it, more pressing issues at hand ;)

    103/104 isn't too big for 100kg if you are serious about competing, chasing records in the division etc.
    Have a look through some of the logs here.
    Competing at 100kg and walking around at 105kg is entirely normal.

    Here's some examples.
    COH's log, 107kg 1 week out, competes in 100kg
    Hanley's Log, 96+kg 1 week out, weighs 90kg, 97kg on comp day (24 hours later)


    There was a was a pretty detailed trip report including the weight cut that somebody posted a few years ago, anybody remember who it was?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭Dwarf.Shortage


    Mellor wrote: »
    I generally increase when I hit 3 x 5. The way I see it, at that point I'm strong enough for repeated 5 rep sets at that weight, its just a case of sufficient rest periods.



    103/104 isn't too big for 100kg if you are serious about competing, chasing records in the division etc.
    Have a look through some of the logs here.
    Competing at 100kg and walking around at 105kg is entirely normal.

    Here's some examples.

    There was a was a pretty detailed trip report including the weight cut that somebody posted a few years ago, anybody remember who it was?

    True true, my problem there is that basically I absolutely love a good hard training session, the tougher the better, shying away from work won't be my downfall but keeping my fat head out of the fridge is a daily struggle. I've never successfully cut weight in my life but I guess I'll have to learn!

    Goals at the moment are to hit DL 250kg SQ 220kg Bench 120kg by the 19th of December (day of last college exam) then I'll be on the beer for a week or two but 3-5 January get the head back on and start prepping seriously for the nationals which I think are in April. Squat record is 225kg and I'm gonna try my utmost to give it a scare. Hit 210kg with a bit in the tank last week and missed 220kg by a fraction today, got stuck right at the hardest point for a couple of seconds and actually managed to get it going again but after a few slow inches I just ran out of diesel and bailed on it so I know I'm there or thereabouts with the squat. Want to total over 600kg also but squat is main focus, total should fall into place if I keep everything else right.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Mellor wrote: »
    I generally increase when I hit 3 x 5. The way I see it, at that point I'm strong enough for repeated 5 rep sets at that weight, its just a case of sufficient rest periods.



    103/104 isn't too big for 100kg if you are serious about competing, chasing records in the division etc.
    Have a look through some of the logs here.
    Competing at 100kg and walking around at 105kg is entirely normal.

    Here's some examples.
    COH's log, 107kg 1 week out, competes in 100kg
    Hanley's Log, 96+kg 1 week out, weighs 90kg, 97kg on comp day (24 hours later)


    There was a was a pretty detailed trip report including the weight cut that somebody posted a few years ago, anybody remember who it was?

    Probably Matt Kroczaleski... But apparently Travis Mash thought him every he knew about them (...from a barbell shrugged podcast).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Mellor wrote: »
    103/104 isn't too big for 100kg if you are serious about competing, chasing records in the division etc.
    Have a look through some of the logs here.
    Competing at 100kg and walking around at 105kg is entirely normal.

    Not with a 2 hour weigh in!

    My cut and Kieran's were done with 24 hour weigh ins. Trying to replicate and having to lift immediately after would be a disaster.

    ...but being around 103/104 is totally cool if you want to compete at 100kg.

    Plus - f*ck records, acquire PRs.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Also - sounds like oyu're just testing your bench, but not training it.

    My experience (and probably most others) is that upper body requires a lot more volume from different "angles" to improve. That is to say dumbbell, machine, different barbell pressing variations for lots of volume 3-6 sets of 5-15 reps.

    Squat / Deadlift you can usually just bully into gains.

    The more 'suited' you are to a lift, the more it'll increase by just doing that lift. If you're not particularly predisposed to being good at a lift you need more assistance volume to bully it up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,449 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Hanley wrote: »
    Probably Matt Kroczaleski... But apparently Travis Mash thought him every he knew about them (...from a barbell shrugged podcast).
    I was talking about a poster here.
    I thought it was you or COH but couldn't find it in either log.

    It involved around 9kg cut, lying in bed in sweats/hoodie/towels, and waking up from a dream thinking they drank a load of lucozade and freaking out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 487 ✭✭BlueIsland


    Hanley wrote: »
    Also - sounds like oyu're just testing your bench, but not training it.

    My experience (and probably most others) is that upper body requires a lot more volume from different "angles" to improve. That is to say dumbbell, machine, different barbell pressing variations for lots of volume 3-6 sets of 5-15 reps.

    Squat / Deadlift you can usually just bully into gains.

    The more 'suited' you are to a lift, the more it'll increase by just doing that lift. If you're not particularly predisposed to being good at a lift you need more assistance volume to bully it up.

    can I just ask a question because I have seen you write this a fair bit. I sorta get it but what are the attributes that make a person predisposed to being good at a certain lift?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭brownej


    Mellor wrote: »
    I generally increase when I hit 3 x 5. The way I see it, at that point I'm strong enough for repeated 5 rep sets at that weight, its just a case of sufficient rest periods.

    Can you elaborate on this a bit Mellor please?
    I'm doing a 5x5 routine on the bench at the moment and I'm finding it very dificult to progress. I can get the first 3 sets out fine but the last 2 sets are 4 + 1 minor spot assist (Its all me though! ;) ). I've been stuck here for a couple of weeks.
    At this point would you recommend moving up 2.5kg?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ixus


    Is there a reason you don't do dumb bell excercises? Perceptions?

    Dip sounds good. How are chins, various versions? Ever treat them as a main lift e.g. 10x8 ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭Dwarf.Shortage


    ixus wrote: »
    Is there a reason you don't do dumb bell excercises? Perceptions?

    Dip sounds good. How are chins, various versions? Ever treat them as a main lift e.g. 10x8 ?

    Nah I wouldn't be one for giving perceptions much thought, just not in the habit of doing them.

    Could do 8-9 chin ups and 5-6 wide grip pull ups all out, used to be very bad at both and blame high bodyweight but I've got a lot letter and no I've never programmed them as a main lift.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ixus


    I used to really struggle with chins and dips. Made them a part of my programming along with various angle benches as Hanley said ( floor, incline, decline, OH) and shot through the 100/110kg barrier I was struggling with. Got up to the 125 area after 8 weeks or so. Obviously, I was quite weak in this area at the time.

    Ran a four day program with accessories:
    Squat
    Bench
    Deadlift
    Chins


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭Dwarf.Shortage


    Hanley wrote: »
    You're just not a bench presser. Not to worry... It's nothing that can't be solved over the years with lots of pressing volume.

    ...if you're like most people who learn about PL thru the internet you think chest work is the devil and bodybuilders are knobs (it's not, and they're not).

    Your total will be much better off for having a strong squat and DL than it will a big bench.

    ...and that DL you posted wouldn't pass in competition because it's hitched, and not locked out. But you've frickin' tonnes of power there and if you were just more patient you would have ground thru for an easy good lift.

    Would I be wrong in saying that the hitching call would be marginal/harsh for that lift instagram.com /p/vO-UnyI3lV/?modal=true as the weight is never resting on my leg but rather I get caught forward with it and it progress' up at an inconsistent pace rather than being jerked up. Again I'm new to this but my understanding of hitching was more like this where you actually use your body to reduce the weight in your hands. youtube.com /watch?v=qSHxqq4l8b8


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭dor843088


    Would I be wrong in saying that the hitching call would be marginal/harsh for that lift instagram.com /p/vO-UnyI3lV/?modal=true as the weight is never resting on my leg but rather I get caught forward with it and it progress' up at an inconsistent pace rather than being jerked up. Again I'm new to this but my understanding of hitching was more like this where you actually use your body to reduce the weight in your hands. youtube.com /watch?v=qSHxqq4l8b8

    You can watch the past meets for the idfpa on youtube and get a good idea of what would pass and what wouldnt . I thought it was a good lift to be fair.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    BlueIsland wrote: »
    can I just ask a question because I have seen you write this a fair bit. I sorta get it but what are the attributes that make a person predisposed to being good at a certain lift?

    If you like it and it goes up easily, you're probably well suited :)

    Failing that;

    short legs + long torso = good squatter
    short legs + long arms = good deadlift
    long legs + arms = ****ed for everything, go play basket ball
    short /normal length arms + thick torso = good bench presser
    Would I be wrong in saying that the hitching call would be marginal/harsh for that lift instagram.com /p/vO-UnyI3lV/?modal=true as the weight is never resting on my leg but rather I get caught forward with it and it progress' up at an inconsistent pace rather than being jerked up. Again I'm new to this but my understanding of hitching was more like this where you actually use your body to reduce the weight in your hands. youtube.com /watch?v=qSHxqq4l8b8

    You double knee bend. That's a hitch. Don't leave it in the hands of the judges man. Just do the lift clean first time. you're strong enough for it.

    ...it's moot anyway since it wasn't fully locked out ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭Dwarf.Shortage


    Hanley wrote: »
    You double knee bend. That's a hitch. Don't leave it in the hands of the judges man. Just do the lift clean first time. you're strong enough for it.

    ...it's moot anyway since it wasn't fully locked out ;)

    My education continues.

    Would I be right in saying the 205kg squat (first one) is dodgy but the 210kg is comfortably deep enough? 205 & 210 squat: instagram.com /p/vZPGifo3pk/?modal=true


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭dor843088


    Hanley wrote: »
    If you like it and it goes up easily, you're probably well suited :)

    Failing that;

    short legs + long torso = good squatter
    short legs + long arms = good deadlift
    long legs + arms = ****ed for everything, go play basket ball
    short /normal length arms + thick torso = good bench presser



    You double knee bend. That's a hitch. Don't leave it in the hands of the judges man. Just do the lift clean first time. you're strong enough for it.

    ...it's moot anyway since it wasn't fully locked out ;)

    There was no double knee bend in that lift . It was shakey because of max effort but double k ee bend I didnt see . Had he locked out harder I reckon hed have got it in the idfpa and iv seen much much worse pass for world records (andy bolton comes to mind). I know different feds different standards. I completely agree tho you're on thin ice with it. Heres andy Boltons lift is locked out ?



    Only reason i say is because I had an idea in my head judges would be hella strict in my first meet I turned up and got 9 white lights and some of the stuff passed was surprising to me.its all opinion at the end of the day and hanleys on the money advising you to crush them if you can and leave it In no doubt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭Dwarf.Shortage


    It's been a goal of mine from the start to pull a quarter of a ton and I made a go at it tonight, equipment available dictated I had to improvise to get it onto the bar but that ended up coming back around and biting me in the arse! Not going to claim my max is 250kg after this (I'll get it properly in UCD next week) but I maintain what happened made it harder rather than easier, when that sort of weight starts spinning like that it has a mind of it's own! instagram.com /p/vuF8_Eo3ng/?modal=true


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,449 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    The sleeves are suppose to spin independently from the bar. More important in Olympic lifting than powerlifting.

    You'll progress a lot faster if you stop testing you max all the time. You've tons of power there but your program is probably selling yourself short.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭Dwarf.Shortage


    Mellor wrote: »
    The sleeves are suppose to spin independently from the bar. More important in Olympic lifting than powerlifting.

    You'll progress a lot faster if you stop testing you max all the time. You've tons of power there but your program is probably selling yourself short.

    The plan is to stop maxing out every week when I stop maxing out at a higher number every week! I think I'm getting very near that point. Would you recommend any particular program? Have tried 5/3/1 but don't find it taxing enough. Considering going back to it but doing the 3 work sets twice.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    dor843088 wrote: »
    There was no double knee bend in that lift . It was shakey because of max effort but double k ee bend I didnt see . Had he locked out harder I reckon hed have got it in the idfpa and iv seen much much worse pass for world records (andy bolton comes to mind). I know different feds different standards. I completely agree tho you're on thin ice with it. Heres andy Boltons lift is locked out ?

    3 things;

    1) There was significant arguments at the time about Andy Bolton's lift. It was not locked out. His grip was slipping. And he never finished the pull. You can see all of that in the video. But he got it anyway. It shouldn't have been given, but it was the WPO days, and if there was enough weight on the bar, you got anything the looked like a lift.

    2) The OP is not Andy Bolton. He's not Thierry Henry. Nor is he any other lifter or sports person who's ever gotten a dodgy call in his or her favour. Just because you MIGHT get away with it, doesn't mean you should try do as little as possible. Never leave it in the hands of the judges.

    3) Judging in powerlifting is opinion based. There was a double knee bend. I'm speaking my opinion as a qualified powerlifting referee who's seen thousands of lifts good and bad in competition. Unlike some people at national level, I don't give a **** if I make someone unhappy with a call, I wouldn't give a lift.

    It being near max is irrelevant. I bet if you looked at lighter lifts you wouldn't see the double knee bend. So there shouldn't be one on max effort. Look at the best lifters in the world - their 1RMs look mostly the same as their warm ups for a reason.

    If the OP has any intention of going and lifting internationally, he'll be judged to a much higher standard than he would be at home. He looks like a reasonably talented lad who could go on and hit some nice numbers. Why would you set him up from the start to potentially have problems in competition when it comes to performance criteria?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Hanley wrote: »
    Never leave it in the hands of the judges

    ^ The key take home.

    OP, good programming and training right and it won't be an issue.

    If you're questioning the validity of a lift, you're better off assuming you won't be getting it.

    Like the fable, OP, the tortoise built his lifts, the hare chased maxes. The tortoise pulled more at the nationals.

    QED.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ixus


    .....
    Goals at the moment are to hit DL 250kg SQ 220kg Bench 120kg by the 19th of December (day of last college exam) .....

    To be uber critical. You're ignoring your goals.

    Arguably, you could achieve your dead and squat in this time by just maintaining your current levels and not attempting your 1 RPM again while focusing on your form. You're getting some great, knowledgeable and free advice on form.

    I have little doubt you could achieve your bench goal if you actually programmed for it over the next few weeks. You're focusing on your strongest rather than your weakest.

    So, why not try and get some structured bench programme and attack this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭dor843088


    Hanley wrote: »
    3 things;

    1) There was significant arguments at the time about Andy Bolton's lift. It was not locked out. His grip was slipping. And he never finished the pull. You can see all of that in the video. But he got it anyway. It shouldn't have been given, but it was the WPO days, and if there was enough weight on the bar, you got anything the looked like a lift.

    2) The OP is not Andy Bolton. He's not Thierry Henry. Nor is he any other lifter or sports person who's ever gotten a dodgy call in his or her favour. Just because you MIGHT get away with it, doesn't mean you should try do as little as possible. Never leave it in the hands of the judges.

    3) Judging in powerlifting is opinion based. There was a double knee bend. I'm speaking my opinion as a qualified powerlifting referee who's seen thousands of lifts good and bad in competition. Unlike some people at national level, I don't give a **** if I make someone unhappy with a call, I wouldn't give a lift.

    It being near max is irrelevant. I bet if you looked at lighter lifts you wouldn't see the double knee bend. So there shouldn't be one on max effort. Look at the best lifters in the world - their 1RMs look mostly the same as their warm ups for a reason.

    If the OP has any intention of going and lifting internationally, he'll be judged to a much higher standard than he would be at home. He looks like a reasonably talented lad who could go on and hit some nice numbers. Why would you set him up from the start to potentially have problems in competition when it comes to performance criteria?


    Fair enough. My point was he may have gotten it in terms of the hitching from what iv seen. Would you give a lift if theres any shaking ? By the very nature of it youll be knee bending slightly when shaking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Da Za


    The cut story was probably my 8kg cut in 2011.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭Thud


    instagram.com /p/vuF8_Eo3ng/?modal=true

    Get a new gym or buy some metal plates on Donedeal!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Da Za


    And it was Hanley's red lucozade (my fav)!


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