Paul lawrie or monty's career?

GreeBo · 21-11-2014 04:01PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

To offer a neutral perspective, from a non-golfer who wandered across the thread.

I do think some people are over valuing the Ryder cup in this discussion. I know about Monty and I know about Lawrie, but as a casual fan I actually don't know the reasons why Monty is described as having a fantastic Ryder cup career. Maybe he is indeed a Ryder cup legend, but it just isn't as big a selling point to the wider public as it might be to more serious fans. Teams win Ryder cups, individual performances are just part of the whole.

If the question is regarding the legacy of both, I would suggest that to the unwashed masses that the major win does indeed speak a lot louder than having a great Ryder cup record. Lots of players have good Ryder cup records.

How many non golfers would have ever heard of lawrie?
compare that to those who have heard of Monty.

dcrosskid · 21-11-2014 04:51PM

Webbs wrote: »

Monty is in the Golf hall of fame (merits of that for another thread!) so I would say that that does give a toss about the OoM, number of wins etc.
Monty as talked about in this thread won the Order when there was a golden generation of Europeans playing

Are we not in the golden generation now? I don't have figures but i say there has never been as many European major winners as there has been over the last 5 years or so. McIlroy, Kaymer, McDowell, Clarke, Harrington & Rose. Then you have Donald & Westwood who both were world no. 1's in that time and add in Sergio Garcia who has had plenty near misses also and has been in the top 10 for a long time also. Also Europe's total domination in the Ryder Cup over the US is an indicator of the talent thats playing at the moment.

cairny · 21-11-2014 05:07PM

dcrosskid wrote: »

Are we not in the golden generation now? I don't have figures but i say there has never been as many European major winners as there has been over the last 5 years or so. McIlroy, Kaymer, McDowell, Clarke, Harrington & Rose. Then you have Donald & Westwood who both were world no. 1's in that time and add in Sergio Garcia who has had plenty near misses also and has been in the top 10 for a long time also. Also Europe's total domination in the Ryder Cup over the US is an indicator of the talent thats playing at the moment.

None of them are playing the European Tour as their main tour now though. I think his point that the Euro Tour was much stronger when Monty was winning OOMs is valid enough.

Slicemeister · 21-11-2014 05:39PM

GreeBo wrote:

How many non golfers would have ever heard of lawrie? compare that to those who have heard of Monty.

I'd hazard more Americans would've heard of Lawrie due to his major win and the fashion he won it in. The ET is only a mickey mouse series as far as they're concerned. Granted Monty would be far better known on mainland Europe.

Russman · 21-11-2014 05:40PM

cairny wrote: »

None of them are playing the European Tour as their main tour now though. I think his point that the Euro Tour was much stronger when Monty was winning OOMs is valid enough.

Was it really though ? I mean, the likes of Seve, Faldo, Woosnam, Lyle & Langer were mostly past their prime in the mid-late 90s. Even Ollie was having his years out through injury. Westwood, Harrington & Clarke hadn't really become top, top players by then and Sergio wasn't even around. There were some real journeymen on some of the Euro Ryder Cup teams back then

!! That's not to knock Monty in any way, shape or form, you can only beat the field you're playing against and that's what he did, repeatedly. The golf he played winning his PGA Championships and when he won in Loch Lomond was some of the best I can remember ever seeing.

cairny · 21-11-2014 06:19PM

Russman wrote: »

Was it really though ? I mean, the likes of Seve, Faldo, Woosnam, Lyle & Langer were mostly past their prime in the mid-late 90s. Even Ollie was having his years out through injury. Westwood, Harrington & Clarke hadn't really become top, top players by then and Sergio wasn't even around. There were some real journeymen on some of the Euro Ryder Cup teams back then !! That's not to knock Monty in any way, shape or form, you can only beat the field you're playing against and that's what he did, repeatedly. The golf he played winning his PGA Championships and when he won in Loch Lomond was some of the best I can remember ever seeing.

You have a point, I just looked at the world rankings on the 95 team. Phillip Walton made the team on merit while off a world ranking of 108!

bucketybuck · 21-11-2014 07:00PM

GreeBo wrote: »

How many non golfers would have ever heard of lawrie?
compare that to those who have heard of Monty.

I don't think thats as strong a point as you would like to be.

I would be happy to guess that quite a lot of non-golfers know the name of Paul Lawrie, even if they couldn't tell you anything else about the man. And the exact same applies to Montgomery. To the average man they are both famous golfers, and the finer details of Montgomerys successes aren't really well known to uninformed blow-ins like me.

Rikand · 21-11-2014 10:03PM

I'd prefer to have the major. So Paul lawrie for me

stockdam · 21-11-2014 10:59PM

I'd prefer to the better golfer with the better record and with 8 Order of Merits which demonstrates a far better and more consistent record. At the end of the day Montgomerie won far more tournaments over a long period and he wins by a country mile.

GreeBo · 22-11-2014 06:19PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't think thats as strong a point as you would like to be.

I would be happy to guess that quite a lot of non-golfers know the name of Paul Lawrie, even if they couldn't tell you anything else about the man. And the exact same applies to Montgomery. To the average man they are both famous golfers, and the finer details of Montgomerys successes aren't really well known to uninformed blow-ins like me.

I would very much disagree that Lawrie is a "famous golfer" tbh.

Telecaster58 · 24-11-2014 05:36PM

cairny wrote: »

None of them are playing the European Tour as their main tour now though. I think his point that the Euro Tour was much stronger when Monty was winning OOMs is valid enough.

The fact that Montgomerie never even won an ordinary tour event in America speaks volumes.

Webbs · 24-11-2014 05:49PM

Telecaster58 wrote: »

The fact that Montgomerie never even won an ordinary tour event in America speaks volumes.

Not sure what relevance this has? Lawrie hasn't won on the US tour either has he?

I can stand corrected here but I thought Montgomerie played very few US tour events in his career.

cairny · 24-11-2014 06:41PM

Webbs wrote: »

Not sure what relevance this has? Lawrie hasn't won on the US tour either has he?

I can stand corrected here but I thought Montgomerie played very few US tour events in his career.

Exactly. Whereas Lawtie spent years there and lost his card. US record is a plus for Monty in this context not a negative.

Telecaster58 · 25-11-2014 12:54PM

Webbs wrote: »

Not sure what relevance this has? Lawrie hasn't won on the US tour either has he?

I can stand corrected here but I thought Montgomerie played very few US tour events in his career.

It is relevant to the extent that he never won a major because they were more competitive tournaments and he never won in America, despite playing many times, also because they were much more competitive. Hell, he never even won a playoff in any event!

BigChap1759 · 25-11-2014 01:59PM

Are we ever likely to see Paul Lawrie in the Golf Hall of Fame........

Case closed

whatawaster · 25-11-2014 02:14PM

Domo1982 wrote: »

Cute

I'm no Woods fanboy in afraid.

It's the Harro fanboys like Martin that rewrite history to suit the all conquering local hero when it's just not like that

If you took Utd out of the premier league in the 90's would the others have had a better chance of winning?

Sure Eddie Irvine nearly won the World Championship because Schumacher broke his legs in 99...would that WDC have been devalued...of course it would have been.

Harrington won a major against Woods, his first. Why didn't Tiger win that one? He won his next two without him, but still up against the rest of the top 10/20, all of whom are class players.

Irvine nearly won because he had the best car. Harrington had no such advantages

neckedit · 25-11-2014 02:29PM

Might as well throw my 2 cents in too.....
Monty for me, 45 career wins, 4th in the all time winners on the European tour, 8 OOM's, Ryder Cup Winner as both captain (he'll never let us that) and player. 2nd highest point winner. Hall of fame, European player of the year 4 times, competed at the top consistantly for the majority of his playing career. Spent over 400 weeks in the OWGR in the top 10, was up at number 2! Oh and of course....his OBE........

Paul Lawrie, Open Champion 1999, 12 career wins, Ryder Cup Winner......and he too has an OBE.....

Lawrie's Open Championship is a huge plus, and can never be taken away.
But Monty's career is pretty special, even with out the Major win. Even if you can't stand the guy, facts are facts.

Telecaster58 · 25-11-2014 02:32PM

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Are we ever likely to see Paul Lawrie in the Golf Hall of Fame........

Case closed

If they hadn't relaxed the rules a few years back we wouldn't have seen Monty oin it. It used to be a requirement that you had TWO majors to qualify which explains why he had to wait until last year ti be inducted

cairny · 25-11-2014 02:32PM

Telecaster58 wrote: »

It is relevant to the extent that he never won a major because they were more competitive tournaments and he never won in America, despite playing many times, also because they were much more competitive. Hell, he never even won a playoff in any event!

This is a thread about Lawrie's career V Montys career, His record in US is much better than Lawrie's so what point are you making?

neckedit · 25-11-2014 02:37PM

Telecaster58 wrote: »

If they hadn't relaxed the rules a few years back we wouldn't have seen Monty oin it. It used to be a requirement that you had TWO majors to qualify which explains why he had to wait until last year ti be inducted

If JVdV hadn't of dumped his 3rd in the Barry Burn, Lawrie wouldn't of won the Open Championship, The Facts are he did, the same way the Facts are Monty is a Hall of Famer.

Rikand · 25-11-2014 03:01PM

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Are we ever likely to see Paul Lawrie in the Golf Hall of Fame........

Case closed

Only needs 3-4 more regular tour event wins and I wouldn't put it passed him to close those out

BigChap1759 · 25-11-2014 03:02PM

Telecaster58 wrote: »

If they hadn't relaxed the rules a few years back we wouldn't have seen Monty oin it. It used to be a requirement that you had TWO majors to qualify which explains why he had to wait until last year ti be inducted

That is irrelevant, Monty is in the Hall of Fame, Paul Lawrie never will be - the two careers are miles apart in terms of their achievements.

Telecaster58 · 25-11-2014 03:25PM

cairny wrote: »

This is a thread about Lawrie's career V Montys career, His record in US is much better than Lawrie's so what point are you making?

Wrong. The British Open is considered a USPGA tour event in America for qualification purposes, just like the Masters, US Open and USPGA are considered European Tour events. Therefore Lawrie has won more US Tour events than Montgomerie

BigChap1759 · 25-11-2014 03:35PM

Telecaster58 wrote: »

Wrong. The British Open is considered a USPGA tour event in America for qualification purposes, just like the Masters, US Open and USPGA are considered European Tour events. Therefore Lawrie has won more US Tour events than Montgomerie

Lol, that post deserves a super pedantic award!

cairny · 25-11-2014 04:46PM

Telecaster58 wrote: »

Wrong. The British Open is considered a USPGA tour event in America for qualification purposes, just like the Masters, US Open and USPGA are considered European Tour events. Therefore Lawrie has won more US Tour events than Montgomerie

Quote: Telecaster58
The fact that Montgomerie never even won an ordinary tour event in America speaks volumes.

'In' America.

moycullen14 · 25-11-2014 04:56PM

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Lol, that post deserves a super pedantic award!

Except he called it the 'British' Open. Major loss of pedant points.

neckedit · 25-11-2014 05:07PM

Telecaster58 wrote: »

Wrong. The British Open is considered a USPGA tour event in America for qualification purposes, just like the Masters, US Open and USPGA are considered European Tour events. Therefore Lawrie has won more US Tour events than Montgomerie

Well if we are being like that,
Monty has victories on US soil,

Unofficial - Anderson Consulting Match Play Championship in Scottsdale, Arizona in 1998 as well as the 2000 Skins Game in Palm Springs.

Official - Senior PGA Championship 2014.

Telecaster58 · 25-11-2014 05:21PM

moycullen14 wrote: »

Except he called it the 'British' Open. Major loss of pedant points.

Which is what it is. The old duffers of the R&A may arrogate themselves the title "The Open" but the rest of us do not have to go along with it. It's the British Open

Telecaster58 · 25-11-2014 05:24PM

neckedit wrote: »

Well if we are being like that,
Monty has victories on US soil,

Unofficial - Anderson Consulting Match Play Championship in Scottsdale, Arizona in 1998 as well as the 2000 Skins Game in Palm Springs.

Official - Senior PGA Championship 2014.

LOL That really is the sound of scraping the barrel. That's up there with Harrington's claim that the last "tournament" he won was the PGA Grand Slam of Golf in 2012

neckedit · 25-11-2014 05:51PM

Telecaster58 wrote:

LOL That really is the sound of scraping the barrel. That's up there with Harrington's claim that the last "tournament" he won was the PGA Grand Slam of Golf in 2012

granted...but I'm only scrapping around the crud you dug up claiming Lawrie is a USPGA tournament winner in a very round about way.

Paul lawrie or monty's career?

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