Would you snitch on a dole cheat?

CruelCoin · 20-11-2014 02:37AM

DirtyLeeds14 wrote: »

And if anybody thinks there paying more tax because a few are skimming a extra bit of the social welfare they really are deluded.

Where do you think the money is coming from? A mystical fairy money tree?

Where do you really think it's coming from?

Wompa1 · 20-11-2014 04:28AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I wouldn't.

Everyone has a scam going...
- a self-employed person declares only a portion of his or her true income.
- Big Businesses hire creative accountants.
- People download. Why you think that is? because it beats paying for it.
- Nixers (not paying tax)
- I could go on...

Everyone has something going...

So the solution is to just give up and say, feck it, sure everybody is at it...?

B.A._Baracus · 20-11-2014 04:30AM

Wompa1 wrote: »

So the solution is to just give up and say, feck it, sure everybody is at it...?

Here's a question. An honest question that should have an honest answer...What "scam" (defined by what I said above) you got going, mate?

wexandproud · 20-11-2014 07:03AM

Beaner1 wrote: »

That argument does my head in. The same was said about debt forgiveness, that we need these people spending in the economy. Sorry, I'd rather spend that money in pubs, hotels and restaurants rather than having to siphoned off so others get to have the craic.

that argument might well do your head in beaner1, but that is actually what the economy revolves around. when you say you would rather spend money in pubs, hotels and restaurants you are in fact helping to keep jobs in these places and therefore, like the rest of us , doing our own little bit for the local economy.
I often laugh at the story from years ago when a lady in wexford was organising bus trips every weekend to waterford and dublin to shop and at the same time complaining her daughter had lost her job in a clothes shop here in town

Means Of Escape · 20-11-2014 07:41AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I wouldn't.

Everyone has a scam going...
- a self-employed person declares only a portion of his or her true income.
- Big Businesses hire creative accountants.
- People download. Why you think that is? because it beats paying for it.
- Nixers (not paying tax)
- I could go on...

Everyone has something going...

Someone downloading a movie equivalent to a sham scamming the dole for years?!?
Do the Maths ffs

General sweeping statement with no evidence .
Brilliant

Wompa1 · 20-11-2014 07:41AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Here's a question. An honest question that should have an honest answer...What "scam" (defined by what I said above) you got going, mate?

Nothing. I moved to the US almost 3 years ago. Before I left Ireland, I was didn't have anything on the go. I don't even download illegally. Stopped doing that years ago.

I agree that a lot of people in Ireland are scamming. Doesn't make it right and doesn't mean that people should just accept it.

When in Ireland, I never pulled the 3 months off, 3 months on scam with my road tax. I didn't drive uninsured. Never worked nixers. Have never claimed the dole, haven't politic'd my way into getting benefits of any kind. No Scam.

The only thing the Irish state gave to me, which I am thankful for is my education. It's more than a lot of people in other countries get.

efb · 20-11-2014 07:50AM

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Someone downloading a movie equivalent to a sham scamming the dole for years?!?
Do the Maths ffs

General sweeping statement with no evidence .
Brilliant

Both are defrauding the system

Wompa1 · 20-11-2014 07:57AM

efb wrote: »

Both are defrauding the system

Which system? One hits the pockets of Warner Bros, Sony Music etc. The other hits the tax payers directly...

Also, who downloads nowadays?? Everything is available to stream.

efb · 20-11-2014 08:00AM

Wompa1 wrote: »

Which system? One hits the pockets of Warner Bros, Sony Music etc. The other hits the tax payers directly...

Also, who downloads nowadays?? Everything is available to stream.

And tax via VAT

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-11-2014 08:03AM

efb wrote: »

And tax via VAT

So you are saying people should be able to choose which laws they want to break?

efb · 20-11-2014 08:08AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you are saying people should be able to choose which laws they want to break?

No, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

People get very pious about paying tax

strobe · 20-11-2014 08:12AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you are saying people should be able to choose which laws they want to break?

I think it's more a people in glass houses thing.

efb · 20-11-2014 08:12AM

Their should be a tax on horses above a certain height

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-11-2014 08:13AM

efb wrote: »

No, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

People get very pious about paying tax

So you are saying that defrauding the state by not declaring work while collecting SW is ok?

efb · 20-11-2014 08:14AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you are saying that defrauding the state by not declaring work while collecting SW is ok?

When did I say that?

efb · 20-11-2014 08:16AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you are saying that defrauding the state by not declaring work while collecting SW is ok?

Are you deliberately misinterpreting what I am saying or do you have difficulty understanding it???

EoghanIRL · 20-11-2014 08:18AM

Someone in the town where I am from got reported a few years ago.
Apparently you have to give your name when you report someone though .
Not sure how true that is but it could lead to trouble .

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-11-2014 08:22AM

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Someone in the town where I am from got reported a few years ago.
Apparently you have to give your name when you report someone though .
Not sure how true that is but it could lead to trouble .

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/secure/ReportFraud.aspx

You can report suspected social welfare fraud anonymously by completing this form.

bobmalooka · 20-11-2014 08:36AM

Just to weigh in, my mother works for the department of social protection and her sole responsibility is dealing with reported SW fraud.

The vast vast majority of reports are frivolous/vindictive, almost all relate to people making assumptions about a persons circumstances.

My mother says in the department it is recognised that welfare fraud is a relatively small problem and that the resources directed towards finding it are not proportional to the savings to be found.

Based on that I would have to question the obsession people have with "welfare fraudsters" hurting their pocket.

wilser · 20-11-2014 08:41AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Do you pay taxes? If so they're stealing from you.

Like a lot of things it's the principle.

This got me thinking
Bertie aherne and his comrades who sold us down the river are EACH collecting pensions in excess of €100,000 a year.
2 grand a week and people are complaining about a man washing windows/painting someone's bedroom during the week because he hasn't got the money to pay his esb bill.
What a great fcuking system

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-11-2014 08:43AM

bobmalooka wrote: »

Just to weigh in, my mother works for the department of social protection and her sole responsibility is dealing with reported SW fraud.

The vast vast majority of reports are frivolous/vindictive, almost all relate to people making assumptions about a persons circumstances.

My mother says in the department it is recognised that welfare fraud is a relatively small problem and that the resources directed towards finding it are not proportional to the savings to be found.

Based on that I would have to question the obsession people have with "welfare fraudsters" hurting their pocket.

€2.6 Million a week doesn't sound relatively small to me

http://www.thejournal.ie/jobseekers-allowance-fraud-state-fraud-1692498-Sep2014/

Fraud on Jobseekers’ Allowance cost the State €2.68 million a week in 2013

Today’s report by the Comptroller and Auditor General into public expenditure said that the frauds added up to €2.62 million a week. That adds up to around 4.6% of payments.

CruelCoin · 20-11-2014 08:45AM

Wompa1 wrote: »

So the solution is to just give up and say, feck it, sure everybody is at it...?

I think zimbabwe went that way.
Russia too.
And pretty much every other economic hole.

Beaner1 · 20-11-2014 08:49AM

I'd agree that a huge number, close to a majority have a scam going on.

The problem is that a paye worker has no ability to scam and they get hit for everything, every time. The same small pool of workers supporting the whole state whilst chancers going ten hours a week have a much nicer lifestyle.

wilser · 20-11-2014 09:32AM

[quote="Beaner1;93110835"

The problem is that a paye worker has no ability to scam.[/quote]

Think you might be doing it wrong

Frank O. Pinion · 20-11-2014 09:58AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A basic income isn't feasible.

At the moment the social welfare system costs around 26 billion a year. if there are 4.5 million people in Ireland, less 1/2 million children this comes to around 125 euro per adult per week.

So an unemployed person previously "earning" 188 + rent allowance would see his income cut by about half.

The whole social welfare system would be changed. For starters, you wouldn't need to be paying employees in and funding the dole offices. You wouldn't need employees spending resources on trying to catch "dole cheats" or fraudsters, because everybody would automatically get their basic income.

Tordelback · 20-11-2014 09:59AM

Wompa1 wrote: »

The only thing the Irish state gave to me, which I am thankful for is my education.

Plus whatever your mother's Child Benefit paid for, plus whatever entertainment you derived from TV, radio, parks, and playgrounds, plus whatever you used phone, water, gas and electricty for, plus your ante-natal and neonatal care, vaccinations and dental care, plus whatever traveling you did on roads or train tracks, the airport that you flew out of and the diplomatic links that allowed you entry to the US.

All paid for or heavily subsidised by general taxation. The state - meaning its taxpayers and VAT-charged consumers - gives us a lot. You may never have needed Jobseekers, but to say the state gave you nothing but your education is nonsense - we all depend on what Revenue takes from us.

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-11-2014 10:28AM

Tordelback wrote: »

Plus whatever your mother's Child Benefit paid for, plus whatever entertainment you derived from TV, radio, parks, and playgrounds, plus whatever you used phone, water, gas and electricty for, plus your ante-natal and neonatal care, vaccinations and dental care, plus whatever traveling you did on roads or train tracks, the airport that you flew out of and the diplomatic links that allowed you entry to the US.

All paid for or heavily subsidised by general taxation. The state - meaning its taxpayers and VAT-charged consumers - gives us a lot. You may never have needed Jobseekers, but to say the state gave you nothing but your education is nonsense - we all depend on what Revenue takes from us.

Ah yeah but apart from

your mother's Child Benefit paid for, plus whatever entertainment you derived from TV, radio, parks, and playgrounds, plus whatever you used phone, water, gas and electricty for, plus your ante-natal and neonatal care, vaccinations and dental care, plus whatever traveling you did on roads or train tracks, the airport that you flew out of and the diplomatic links that allowed you entry to the US.

What else have the Romans done for us?

EoghanIRL · 20-11-2014 01:56PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/secure/ReportFraud.aspx

Ok , looks like I heard incorrectly .

RoboRat · 20-11-2014 02:03PM

I have no problem with somebody who is on the dole and they do an occasional unplanned nixer.

I do have an issue with people who are working regularly and claiming the dole.

I also have a major issue with people who cream the system eg the single parents who live with partners and claim every expense or those on injury benefit that shouldn't be. Some people will say its the governments fault for allowing it to happen but that's no different than blaming a shop owner for not having adequate security to stop shoplifting. Welfare is there to safeguard the most vulnerable and its certainly not a lifestyle choice.

Wompa1 · 20-11-2014 04:19PM

Tordelback wrote: »

Plus whatever your mother's Child Benefit paid for, plus whatever entertainment you derived from TV, radio, parks, and playgrounds, plus whatever you used phone, water, gas and electricty for, plus your ante-natal and neonatal care, vaccinations and dental care, plus whatever traveling you did on roads or train tracks, the airport that you flew out of and the diplomatic links that allowed you entry to the US.

All paid for or heavily subsidised by general taxation. The state - meaning its taxpayers and VAT-charged consumers - gives us a lot. You may never have needed Jobseekers, but to say the state gave you nothing but your education is nonsense - we all depend on what Revenue takes from us.

Got my vaccinations in the US. Out of the PRSI, I got about 2 cleanings..I should have used it more while we had it but didn't. Plus, I had paid in a lot more to the PRSI than I claimed out. I paid car tax, actually almost 900 euro a year for the last few years I was there, when they brought in that 2008 rule, I was driving a 2.2 Diesel 2006.

I'll give you the child allowance. My mother did get that and used it towards school books, the yearly donation to the school and the likes. We didn't get it every year we were in Ireland, though.

Also re: The Water...I grew up out in the middle of nowhere with only a few houses around us. Outside of the village. We shared a water scheme that we paid for. Now, I did rent in Galway so I used water on a public scheme during that whole outbreak of the parasite. I also lived-in a housing estate which they discovered had lead pipes...which may have explained why there were so many crazy mofos around that area.

TV and Radio is covered by the TV License, which we all pay for.

My village got a playground, long after I left. We had a soccer pitch which we were allowed to use provided to us by our local church. Again. Gas and electricity was paid for...had a gas stove hooked up to a gas barrel out the back of the house and paid ESB bills.

My Diplomatic link was US citizenship. I was born in the US with an Irish father who was homesick and wanted to move back. Flew in and out of the airport, alright. Which although covered by project money, should be paying for itself through leasing space to shops and airlines. Also in landing fees incurred on the price of everybodys ticket.

We were dole merchants though, moved to Ireland for the easy life. Those roaring 80's were mighty craic!

So, yeah. Education and some funky a$$ water. But yes, also got child allowance for a few years.

Would you snitch on a dole cheat?

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