€145k taxpayers' bill for prisoners to watch Sky Sports

topper75 · 18-11-2014 05:50PM

- I as a law-abiding taxpayer deem a Sky Sports channel subscription to be a luxury beyond what I can afford.
- I then have money forcefully taken from me by the state in taxes.
- The state uses this money to ensure those who have been judged to be criminals (and have therefore forfeited the right to liberty) get to enjoy this luxury.

I must be missing a bullet point in the story.

Help me out here people!

whatawaster · 18-11-2014 05:51PM

efb wrote: »

Maybe it helps keep the peace

We pay prison guards to do that. We don't have open-plan prison living for that reason. Sky tv is completely unnecessary.

UnknownSpecies · 18-11-2014 05:55PM

topper75 wrote: »

- I as a law-abiding taxpayer deem a Sky Sports channel subscription to be a luxury beyond what I can afford.
- I then have money forcefully taken from me by the state in taxes.
- The state uses this money to ensure those who have been judged to be criminals (and have therefore forfeited the right to liberty) get to enjoy this luxury.

I must be missing a bullet point in the story.

Help me out here people!

Like someone pointed out, it's only €16 per prisoner for the year. It seems like a luxury but I think the real punishment is having no freedom and being kept from friends/family. Even animals in a zoo will get agitated without stimulation. Let them have their Sky.

Valetta · 18-11-2014 05:58PM

topper75 wrote: »

- I as a law-abiding taxpayer deem a Sky Sports channel subscription to be a luxury beyond what I can afford.
- I then have money forcefully taken from me by the state in taxes.
- The state uses this money to ensure those who have been judged to be criminals (and have therefore forfeited the right to liberty) get to enjoy this luxury.

I must be missing a bullet point in the story.

Help me out here people!

What price do you put on your liberty?

VinLieger · 18-11-2014 06:02PM

dorgasm wrote: »

Like someone pointed out, it's only €16 per prisoner for the year. It seems like a luxury but I think the real punishment is having no freedom and being kept from friends/family. Even animals in a zoo will get agitated without stimulation. Let them have their Sky.

Nope they are prisoners and should have zero luxuries beyond a bed and a toilet. Which reminds me how many prisoners are still slopping out? Maybe instead of buying them shiny consoles and tv subscriptions they could look into fixing that problem?

Karl Stein · 18-11-2014 06:02PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Why are public funds being used to provide pay-tv to convicted criminals?

Keep 'em quiet I reckon.

When you watch TV, brain activity switches from the left to the right hemisphere. In fact, experiments conducted by researcher Herbert Krugman showed that while viewers are watching television, the right hemisphere is twice as active as the left, a neurological anomaly. The crossover from left to right releases a surge of the body’s natural opiates

Krugman, Herbert E. “Brain wave Measures of Media Involvement,” Journal of Advertising Research 11.1

whatawaster · 18-11-2014 06:07PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

Keep 'em quiet I reckon.

Again . . . tv can be free. RTE, BBC, ITV, Channel 4, More 4, E4, Film 4, TV3, TG4, Sky News and COUNTLESS other channels.

There is no need whatsoever to pay a subscription. It's nonsense.

BMJD · 18-11-2014 06:08PM

They probably threaten to put on Fair City if anyone acts the bollox.

And that is inhumane.

Idbatterim · 18-11-2014 06:10PM

you would question if they made it a place to go where you would be bored out of your mind, would A) time drag a lot more

it would be a place that they would be less likely to want to go back to C) if prison was tougher, sentences could be reduced, to get repeat offenders off the street (less time, but a way worse place to spend time)... obviously you could only do this with certain crimes...

Gbear · 18-11-2014 06:10PM

If it could be shown to reduce recidivism would you support it?

Too often I see people looking at this issue as cut and dry - "they're bad so they shouldn't have nice things". Before you decide that you have to decide what you want out of your prison system.

If it's just to vindictively punish people then it really isn't much use. Just revenge for the sake of it. Murdering a murderer is still murder.

If it's about making society better then that's a practical problem that needs to be addressed with empirical arguments. Some of those might be counter-intuitive and seem to be rewarding bad behaviour.

It's a legitimate concern about the government taking tax revenue from you, under pain of imprisonment, and using it to support these people in such a way - while you might be happy to give the money over to turn a petty thief into a teacher, a taxi driver or a doctor, you might be less inclined to support a serial murderer's interest in rugby.

But at the same time, if you want prison to be hell then you can't complain when there's broken lunatics streaming out of it after their sentences are finished.

Privatisation is one solution to try and get the best of both worlds but it seems to be an absolute mess in the US and has spawned an industry out of locking people away for profit. There shouldn't be an incentive for a person to be convicted of a crime.

Perhaps a non-profit private prison would avoid taxpayers paying for giving luxuries to those who don't deserve it but give people a chance to directly support those trying to better themselves?

efb · 18-11-2014 06:10PM

whatawaster wrote: »

We pay prison guards to do that. We don't have open-plan prison living for that reason. Sky tv is completely unnecessary.

Maybe they'd need more without Sky Sports so it may save money

Karl Stein · 18-11-2014 06:11PM

whatawaster wrote: »

There is no need whatsoever to pay a subscription.

There is if you want to see sports. I'd imagine viewing sports produces even more of an 'opiate effect' on prisoners.

topper75 · 18-11-2014 06:11PM

Valetta wrote: »

What price do you put on your liberty?

€38.49

What point are you trying to make in this thread?

Maximus Alexander · 18-11-2014 06:11PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

True

They are also their to be punished for their crimes.

Edit: I suppose having to watch h bog 1, 2, 3 & 4 is punishment enough

That probably goes some way towards explaining why we have so many re-offenders then.

efb · 18-11-2014 06:12PM

topper75 wrote: »

- I as a law-abiding taxpayer deem a Sky Sports channel subscription to be a luxury beyond what I can afford.
- I then have money forcefully taken from me by the state in taxes.
- The state uses this money to ensure those who have been judged to be criminals (and have therefore forfeited the right to liberty) get to enjoy this luxury.

I must be missing a bullet point in the story.

Help me out here people!

You can go somewhere and watch IT if you wish, they are incarcerated

AlanS181824 · 18-11-2014 06:13PM

Are we forgetting that these are people we're talking about here?

The idea of prison is to rehabilitate someone back into society granted that isn't always possible but still.

Do they not deserve "some" luxuries?

I'd say they'd crack up otherwise.

topper75 · 18-11-2014 06:17PM

Gbear wrote: »

If it could be shown to reduce recidivism would you support it?

Too often I see people looking at this issue as cut and dry - "they're bad so they shouldn't have nice things". Before you decide that you have to decide what you want out of your prison system.

If it's just to vindictively punish people then it really isn't much use. Just revenge for the sake of it. Murdering a murderer is still murder.

If it's about making society better then that's a practical problem that needs to be addressed with empirical arguments. Some of those might be counter-intuitive and seem to be rewarding bad behaviour.

It's a legitimate concern about the government taking tax revenue from you, under pain of imprisonment, and using it to support these people in such a way - while you might be happy to give the money over to turn a petty thief into a teacher, a taxi driver or a doctor, you might be less inclined to support a serial murderer's interest in rugby.

But at the same time, if you want prison to be hell then you can't complain when there's broken lunatics streaming out of it after their sentences are finished.

Privatisation is one solution to try and get the best of both worlds but it seems to be an absolute mess in the US and has spawned an industry out of locking people away for profit. There shouldn't be an incentive for a person to be convicted of a crime.

Perhaps a non-profit private prison would avoid taxpayers paying for giving luxuries to those who don't deserve it but give people a chance to directly support those trying to better themselves?

Black is black.

White is white.

Criminals are criminals.

Punishment is punishment.

I really don't see what is wrong with the good old-fashioned "If I **** up I could go to jail" mentality. "If I **** up I could go back inside where they have Sky Sports" doesn't really cut it.

BTW - How in God's name are you shoe-horning some college-kid liberal's death penalty agenda into a thread like this? IRRELEVANT!

whatawaster · 18-11-2014 06:18PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

There is if you want to see sports. I'd imagine viewing sports produces even more of an 'opiate effect' on prisoners.

They show sport on FTA tv.

Irish channels have soccer, gaa, rugby, racing . . .
English channels have much of the same and more

You're really stretching here. There is no justification for this.

It's like this - we probably both agree that prisoners should have access to books. However, if it was found that we were purchasing brand new hardbacks for them, I'd consider it stupid and a waste.

They can get the same benefit from free tv that they would from sky. Nobody in prison needs to watch the ryder cup or premier league football.

Menas · 18-11-2014 06:18PM

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Are we forgetting that these are people we're talking about here?

The idea of prison is to rehabilitate someone back into society granted that isn't always possible but still.

Do they not deserve "some" luxuries?

I'd say they'd crack up otherwise.

We seem to have a mix of views on what prisons should be.
Some want a Long Kesh style facility with prisoners in chain gangs breaking rocks and eating gruel and stale bread.
Others want a mix of punishment and rehabilitation as well as protecting the public from those who are a danger.

Valetta · 18-11-2014 06:20PM

topper75 wrote: »

€38.49

What point are you trying to make in this thread?

The fact that you deem it a luxury is irrelevant.

Should prisoners be allowed stuff only up to and including what you can afford?

Your trivial answer to my question shows that you don't really understand the concept of prison.

Karl Stein · 18-11-2014 06:22PM

topper75 wrote: »

Criminals are criminals.

'We' tend to get the criminals 'we' seek. Some dopey young fella gets caught with a couple of ounces of weed and he faces a prison sentence.

Bankrupt a country? Be grand.

OldNotWIse · 18-11-2014 06:23PM

Reminds me of the time people got all up in arms because prisoners got ice-creams on a hot day. Who cares? Prison is not just about punishment and treating people like s.hit, it can also be rehabilitative. I realise the baying vigilantes may have to look that word up in a dictionary. Or, they may be too busy making themselves miserable over a small piece of happiness afforded to other human beings.

Fuhrer · 18-11-2014 06:24PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

'We' tend to get the criminals 'we' seek. Some dopey young fella gets caught with a couple of ounces of weed and he faces a prison sentence.

Bankrupt a country? Be grand.

I doubt anyone has ever been jailed in this country for having a few ounces of weed.

mikeym · 18-11-2014 06:30PM

Its great to see the scumbags get great perks,

efb · 18-11-2014 06:30PM

Sky Sports Pay Per Screw

Karl Stein · 18-11-2014 06:38PM

Fuhrer wrote: »

I doubt anyone has ever been jailed in this country for having a few ounces of weed.

Definitely a criminal record at least and the threat of prison for what is essentially a victimless crime. Also, prisons are full of people who should be getting treated for addiction and/or mental health problems.

How many people are in prison for 'white collar' crimes like tax evasion (anyone for another amnesty?), embezzlement, fraud etc?

No, you see, the game is somewhat rigged:

The number of white-collar prosecutions has fallen dramatically despite an increase in the number of offences. Just 178 convictions were recorded in 2010 compared with 579 in 2003.

Likewise, the capacity of the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation to investigate white-collar crime is limited somewhat given the absence of solicitors or barristers on its staff – and it has just two full-time forensic accountants on its books. Its budget was slashed by 21 per cent between 2008 and 2011.

independent.ie

topper75 · 18-11-2014 06:39PM

Valetta wrote: »

The fact that you deem it a luxury is irrelevant.

Should prisoners be allowed stuff only up to and including what you can afford?

Your trivial answer to my question shows that you don't really understand the concept of prison.

Absolutely relevant - whole issue in this thread in fact.
Prisoners should not be getting luxuries that law abiding citizens don't, no.
You asked an obscure, to me pointless, question. I responded facetiously yes. But I still don't even know what you are on about with 'price' of my liberty.

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I realise the baying vigilantes may have to look that word up in a dictionary. Or, they may be too busy making themselves miserable over a small piece of happiness afforded to other human beings.

People who want criminals to be punished in a JUSTICE SYSTEM are vigilantes now? Look up vigilante in the dictionary and come back to me.

Nodin · 18-11-2014 06:42PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Nope they are prisoners and should have zero luxuries beyond a bed and a toilet. Which reminds me how many prisoners are still slopping out? Maybe instead of buying them shiny consoles and tv subscriptions they could look into fixing that problem?

The consoles are bought by the prisoners or their families.

0byme75341jo28 · 18-11-2014 07:17PM

Nodin wrote: »

The consoles are bought by the prisoners or their families.

Shiny 14/20 year old playstations.. :pac:

leeroybrown · 18-11-2014 07:21PM

It's simple. The prison governors need to maintain a standard of accommodation for prisoners where the potential for violence is minimised. I'm pretty sure every one of them thinks that €147k in Sky Sports subscriptions is probably one of the better returns on investment they get when it comes to maintaining order.

€145k taxpayers' bill for prisoners to watch Sky Sports

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