Bus Éireann return ticket question

If you're talking about an Internet ticket the answer is no, you must board the outward journey at the stop from which it was booked. Otherwise the MAC no. can't be inserted into the ticket machine and you'll be told to pay cash and seek a refund on the Internet warrant. For the return journey it doesn't matter where you board as there is no MAC to be inserted.

Intifada wrote: »

Aye I found the MAC thing out the hard way when a bus driver almost wouldn't let me on at Knock Airport because my ticket was from Knock :rolleyes: can imagine that happening to a few people especially tourists landing in. Soon knock any notions of Irish hospitality (pardon the pun).

Bus Eireann actually manage to make online bookings less convenient than conventional ones so I never bother. Thanks for the info.

Same happened to me with Dublin (Airport). B0llocking from driver (although in fairness to him he did let me board after i said i'd know next time). You wouldn't get that problem with Citylink or Gobus. For national routes, it shouldn't matter what part of town or city they pick you up (especially in cases where the fare is the exact same).

Intifada wrote: »

Bus Eireann actually manage to make online bookings less convenient than conventional ones so I never bother. Thanks for the info.

The system as it is, is brutal. There is approximately 400 locations in the country on it, and if the location you want isn't there you're required to board elsewhere or not use the online booking.

Drivers aren't equipped to offer a fix but are supposed to tell people "tough, you booked it wrong". If a driver accepts the warrant without putting it through the machine they face being docked the value of it.

And as for the 400 or so locations, I've seen townlands where nobody boards on it and fair size towns where there is a queue for every passing bus not on it.

Absolute nonsensical situation.

If passengers are without tickets are they fare paying passengers, covered by insurance and getting a discounted ticket as they are traveling for more than they paid for and as such are fare evading, they are being treated differently than those paying cash and getting online discount on top of that, Its better to tell people to buy the correct ticket like a cash customer!

Sorry to be so hard but passengers should not mind paying the correct fare and all should be treated the same!

While understand your concept that they have paid, but my understanding is that it creates two situations, driver accepts incorrect internet ticket, bus checked driver wrong must see the boss. Even if he/she explains situation to inspector as he/she was not following procedure. The second being the passenger with a return ticket has no way for their return ticket. Passenger happy at first and feels extra angry later. But if the passenger was asked to pay again they would be good for return journey and be able to get refund on on the internet ticket so passenger less out of pocket, driver covered.

Additionally as no mac number was entered the ticket remains valid, so an additional copy could be used on a different bus. Open to fraud.

Additionally the passenger bought the ticket online and received a discount subject to the terms and conditions of the purchase.

Additionally the system was designed to work on ticket machines well pass their sell by dates. Also I believe most drivers would be off the belief that internet ticket are slower than cash fare transactions. So really the whole system is flawed and the driver get to deal with.

Also someone made the point that when travelling from the airport they will only buy their ticket from the driver, this has the effect of increasing dwell times and the reliability of the service down the road, I remember being on a X1 to Belfast and bus got to the airport at 20 minutes past the hour and spent 30 minutes completing loading as every one paid cash and of course sterling too, oh and not to forget the pink pass ticket too. The machines as i understand it are to have passengers ready with tickets and speed up boarding and dwell time.

Its really a case of a complete root and branch ticketing review that is need instead of a patchwork exercise as we have at present and the same goes for leap too.

horseburger wrote: »

Indeed, it doesn't make sense not to include every location served by the various bus routes.

Why is it that with the buy online option, that the drop down menu does not include every location served throughout the country?

It's as if certain bus routes are not included in the buy online option and then as a result the locations served by those buses.

A limitation of the system is the 400 or so locations, someone had to decide which to include or preclude.

veryangryman wrote: »

In fairness, airports were a daft thing to preclude, especially Dublin. I mean WTF. Do they want us all driving or something

I don't think airports are precluded but the system was built before airports became a focus for BE. So they were probably added as an afterthought and may not work as well as they could.

veryangryman wrote: »

In fairness, airports were a daft thing to preclude, especially Dublin. I mean WTF. Do they want us all driving or something

All four airports (Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Knock) are all listed in the dropdown list.

CVH24 wrote: »

Also just reading back over this tread, it seems i fully believe a full review of the online ticketing needs to be done and PSO ticketing separated from Expressway ticketing as the person who originally started this tread was looking to get an Expressway service and we see that people who commute from say Virginia and cavan also want to travel on the 30 service and they should be on the 109 service.

I believe looking at treads and talking to people as well as looking at the timetables people want to travel from Busaras to Virginia and cavan on the 30 if they do and the bus is busy out of Busaras or the airport the people at the airport who have no other choice but 30 are inconvienced and asked to wait 2 hours on the next service where as the seat the are occupied from Busaras to cavan are now unoccupied from cavan and there would have been people left behind in the airport very glad of them seats!
Any more views on this?

There is always room on the midnight 30 bus that leaves from the Store St side of Bus Aras to Donegal Town every night, for people for Virginia, Cavan and every other town covered in between Dublin, Dublin Airport and Donegal Town.

For that reason I think it makes sense to make passengers - who use the 109 from Cavan and Virginia to Dublin, aware that there is a daily service they can get every night at midnight from Dublin and the airport to Virginia and Cavan.

The last 109 to Virginia and Cavan is 10.30pm Monday to Saturday and on Sundays the last 109 to Virginia and Cavan is 8.30pm, so the midnight 30 bus is useful for people going to both towns, who can get it from Dublin and from the airport.

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1403523374-109.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1415719270-030.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1360750243-030.pdf

CVH24 wrote: »

Well as regards the midnight service, i would guess the midnight is okay for capacity but not during the day. But again a PSO ticket on a Commercial service is what I was pointing out. But if people can do it at midnight why can they not do it at 1730? Thats where the arguments happen??

This is all down to NTA and EU law sadly!!

There are lots of passengers from Cavan and Virginia that use the 30 Dublin Donegal bus to and from Dublin City Centre and Dublin Airport.

These passengers from Virginia or Cavan going to and from the city centre, many commuting up and down throughout the week, would be more likely to be using this 30 bus service more regularly than those from long distance places like Donegal Town or Ballyshannon, going to and from the airport.

If, for example, those passengers for Virginia and Cavan that used this service - who would likely be using it far more regularly than those going to and from longer distances like Ballyshannon or Donegal Town and the airport - were told to only use the 109 service, I think that would be unfair.

I think that these passengers help sustain the 30 bus service.

The reason that Cavan and Virginia passengers at the airport would be opting for the 30 bus is that the other service in their direction from there - the 109A - ends in Kells.

If they use the 109A to Kells, they would then have to wait in Kells, for the guts of an hour, for the 109 that leaves Dublin going to Virginia and Cavan.

There is the possibility that they may be able to connect in Kells with the 109 that leaves Bus Aras every hour, on the half hour, for Virginia and Cavan. These 109's leave Bus Aras 10 minutes after the 109A leaves the airport at 20 past the hour, and sometimes, depending on traffic, the 109s and 109As arrive in Navan and Kells around the same time.

Making the connection would only be done if the 109A arrives in Navan and Kells before the 109.

An example of this 109/109A tight connection is the 109A that leaves the airport at 11.20pm. It usually arrives in Navan and Kells around the same time as the 109 that leaves Bus Aras at 11.30pm.

Sometimes this 11.20pm 109A arrives at the Mercy Convent Navan and Kells stops before the 11.30pm 109 - for example it has sometimes passed out the 109 when the 109 was dropping passengers off at the Tara na Rí outside Navan - but other times it arrives in both towns shortly after the 109.

Considering traffic is heavier during the day, the possibility of making this tight connection would be less likely. This means that anyone at the airport for Cavan and Virginia would be more likely to opt for the 30 Donegal service rather than having to wait at least 30 minutes in Kells for the next 109 that leaves Dublin.

(Most of the 109s from Dublin for Virginia and Cavan during the day, are scheduled to leave Kells 10 minutes before the 109A's are due in Kells on the hour. The 7.30pm, 8.30pm, and 10.30pm 109s from Dublin for Virginia and Cavan are scheduled to leaves Kells five minutes before the 109As are due.)

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1403523374-109.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1403523305-109A.pdf

I would guess the reason that Bus Éireann serves Cavan and Virginia on the 30 Donegal route is because they get enough passengers from both towns to and from Dublin city centre and the airport, throughout the whole day, that it helps to sustain the service. It is the only direct bus route from Cavan and Virginia to Dublin Airport.

CVH24 wrote: »

I would strongly disagree with you on a number of fronts, you think that passengers for virginia and cavan to / from being restricted is unfair on the basis that they travel more regularly than those that travel to/ from longer distances.
That is plan crazy, as a company you want higher yield passengers, the longer they travel the more they pay. Thats a feeling of I am better than the people who live in Doneal or Ballyshannon.
They may make the service more sustainable on they trip to cavan nut not the leg from cavan to Donegal. But the Route has another 125 Km to run.

As i said earlier there should be a difference between prices on 109 and 30, with say fares on 30 % higher on 30 from Dublin to Virginia and Cavan.

The reason 30 serves Virginia is that you can not avoid it, Cavan because it is an interchange point for Galway, Belfast, Monaghan and gets alot of passengers on to Enniskillin and Donegal.

So you free it is unfair to get people who are travelling to Virginia and Cavan to get the 109 from Busaras,which is only say 10 minutes slower than 30,But do you feel it is unfair for say passengers to have to miss the bus at the airport as the regulars are on the 30, sorry next bus is in 2 hours and there may be more regulars on the 30 so who knows. So it is unfair to delay passengers 10 minutes as they are regulars than delay tourists and less regular passengers 2 hours, that is twisted logic. The most logical situation is to load the 109 with what it can take and leave space on 30 for people who can only get 30. The greatest number of people are moved to their chosen destination with the least delays possible. and the best use of available resources. Public transport is for all not just regulars and is there to serve a purpose not a chosen few. If public Transport companies especially Bus Eireann did not do that we would have shouts of waste and inefficacy.

I never said any type of bus user was more important than any other bus user. I did not say that passengers for Cavan and Virginia shouldn't use the 109.

I said that people who use the 30 Dublin Donegal bus from Cavan and Virginia are using it more often than those from Donegal going to and from the airport.

I was suggesting that as a result they would be spending more money using that service throughout the whole week and year, than individual passengers using it a few times a year to and from the airport.

Here is a list of the fares between Dublin and Cavan on the 30 service

16.00 : Adult Single
25.00 : Adult Return
16.00 : Child Return
14.00 : Student Single
18.50 : Student Return
61.50 : Adult 10 Journey
20.00 : Adult Day Return
13.00 : Child Day Return
50.00 : Family Return
57.00 : Student 10 Journey


here is the list of the fares on the 30 from Dublin to Donegal

19.50 : Adult Single
29.50 : Adult Return
18.00 : Child Return
18.00 : Student Single
28.50 : Student Return
25.00 : Adult Day Return
15.50 : Child Day Return
59.00 : Family Return

The fares from Dublin to Cavan are not that much cheaper than the fares from Dublin to Donegal, even though Cavan is almost halfway along the route.

There is the option of an adult 10 day return from Cavan to Dublin which is not listed as a ticket option going from Dublin to Donegal. That indicates that passengers use Bus Éreann's services between Cavan and Dublin more regularly than those going from Dublin to Donegal.

I was suggesting that because of this, and considering the fares are not that much cheaper from Cavan, they are helping to sustain that number 30 service in the same way that Virginia, Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin passengers help sustain the 109 Cavan-Dublin service, because those passengers along with those from Cavan, use the 109 daily and throughout the week.

It would be wrong if the price was higher on the 30 bus for people going to Cavan or Virginia, considering it isn't that much cheaper than a ticket from Dublin to Donegal.

The number 30 is the only service they can get from the airport without having to either get into Bus Aras - by paying another 6 euros on the 747 Dublin Bus service, 7 euros on the aircoach service or 20 euros by taxi - or otherwise having to take the 109A to Dunshaughlin, Navan or Kells to connect with the 109 Cavan service.

The 109A ends at Kells and then they'd have to wait for the best part of an hour from Kells to get the 109 to Virginia or Cavan.

Other posters have written on the forum recently, discussing how in situations where the 30 bus fills up at the airport, that priority is given to those going to Donegal.

In the case detailed in the discussion below, two passengers for Cavan from the airport were left with the option of having to wait two hours for the next number 30 bus, as priority was given to those going to Donegal, when the bus they had planned to get, arrived at the bus stop and filled up with those going to Donegal.

It indicates that people for Cavan on the 30 bus, are not always taking up seats that Donegal passengers could take.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057321889

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92936913&postcount=12

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92937626&postcount=13

CVH24 wrote: »

You are deeming Cavan and Virginia passengers more important than Donegal passengers as keep referring to them as more regular and they spend more. The logical theory is to move as many people with the least resources necessary.

Cavan and Virginia are within the commuter belt since the celtic tiger era. I would guess not happily for those that must commute that distance, I would guess people would not freely choice to spend so much time in transit. 109 is a commuter route.

My suggestion as regards increased fares on Express way was to act as a disincentive for commuters to use 30 from Busaras as these passengers have other options, but people at the airport do not, and should be on the 109.

Now 109 has more problems than would fit in a book, but short workings of 30 (say as far as cavan) say under a brand of 109x could be brought about that would be something for the NTA to be pushed on
.

The 109 does not cover the airport. The 109A serves the airport and it doesn't go on to Cavan or Virginia.

I am not saying that Cavan passengers are more important.

I am suggesting that Bus Éireann must have taken the decision to serve Cavan on the 30 bus route because they get enough passengers using it more regularly, to the city centre and the airport.

As I pointed out, the fares from Dublin to Cavan are not that much cheaper than the fares from Dublin to Donegal.

They wouldn't provide the service to Virginia and Cavan on the 30 bus just for the fun of it. It is obviously of benefit to Bus Éireann to serve both towns, otherwise what reason would they have to serve it?

The link I included for that discussion indicates that Donegal passengers are given priority when the number 30 buses fill to capacity.

horseburger wrote: »

The 109 does not cover the airport. The 109A serves the airport and it doesn't go on to Cavan or Virginia.

--I said the passengers from busaras to Cavan and Virginia should not be on 30,

I am not saying that Cavan passengers are more important.

--Your word was "unfair" as they travel regular and spend more on it than the occassional traveler from Ballyshannon or Donegal.

I am suggesting that Bus Éireann must have taken the decision to serve Cavan on the 30 bus route because they get enough passengers using it more regularly, to the city centre and the airport.

--I already expained why and that was as a interchange point and Virginia can not be avoided.

As I pointed out, the fares from Dublin to Cavan are not that much cheaper than the fares from Dublin to Donegal.

--But the fare on 109 is subsidised by the NTA, route 30 is commerical!!

They wouldn't provide the service to Virginia and Cavan on the 30 bus just for the fun of it. It is obviously of benefit to Bus Éireann to serve both towns, otherwise what reason would they have to serve it?

--I already expained why and that was as a interchange point and Virginia can not be avoided. It is also the only bus to link cavan and the airport.

The link I included for that discussion indicates that Donegal passengers are given priority when the number 30 buses fill to capacity.

Can you or anyone predict how many will be at the airport for the bus as even if you knew how many were at the airport as the bus left busaras how many will arrive at the stop before the bus reaches the airport.
Also It is simplier to ban them that get an arguement as "i always get this bus" sadly seen it and delayed the bus 5 minutes as passenger insisted she need to get this bus.

okay, time to simplify.

Well Bus leaves busaras with 32 passengers (3 for virginia, 6 for cavan, rest for stops beyond cavan), bus gets to airport and there are 26 passengers for the 30. What do you do??? (