Eurostar at 20: Should Ireland have a eurostar service with the U.K?

WoollyRedHat · 14-11-2014 04:17PM #1

Eurostar was first introduced in 1994 and connected the U.K to France for the first time by rail, as well as in Brussels. 10 M passengers use the service, and journey times today betweem London to Paris is estimated around 2 hours. Anyone who has travelled on it can attest to its speed and a great alternative of travelling from one place to another. The newest route to be introduced is London to Amsterdam.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/nov/14/eurostar-at-20-how-has-the-service-grown

Since 1994 when the first Eurostar services launched between Waterloo International, Paris Gare du Nord, Brussels Midi and Lille Europe, 150m passengers have taken a trip on the high-speed passenger trains.

Would it be feasible to envisage a route connecting Dublin to London and how popular would it be? Eurostar estimate that when all things are considered that a flight to London to Paris is longer than the eurostar journey. There are many who dislike flying who would much prefer to travel by rail rather than plane, and it's better for the environment too, I'd guess. With speeds improving all the time, is it not time we consider a fast train service from Ireland to the U.K?
The cost of such a venture could be shared by both governments.

iDave · 14-11-2014 04:19PM

I'd be in favour of it so long as Irish Rail have no hand in it.

Hold the Cheez Whiz · 14-11-2014 04:19PM

That would theoretically be great, as Ireland would be linked through London to Continental Europe.

Leaving aside cost issues for the moment, has anyone though through the logistics/engineering bit? What would this system actually look like?

super_furry · 14-11-2014 04:19PM

Probably not worth it for Britain. They were opening up their rail system to a direct connection to mainland Europe with the channel tunnel. There'd be no such benefits for them in bringing it here.

uch · 14-11-2014 04:19PM

It'd take about 132 years to complete

WoollyRedHat · 14-11-2014 04:21PM

super_furry wrote: »

Probably not worth it for Britain. They were opening up their rail system to a direct connection to mainland Europe with the channel tunnel. There'd be no such benefits for them in bringing it here.

If they were looking towards the future, they could see it as an oppportunity of access to North America by rail. While we're quite some time away from that, it's something to consider.

Peregrine · 14-11-2014 04:23PM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Would it be feasible to envisage a route connecting Dublin to London

No, probably not in this century.

Dravokivich · 14-11-2014 04:23PM

the reason it works between England and France has a lot to do with how narrow (relativly speaking) the English Channel is where it's going under water.

Isn't our closest land to land point with the UK between Northern Ireland and Scotland?

There'd be no point in getting the train from Dublin, a couple of hours up north, a couple of hours to scotland, a long haul south to London to transfar for a few more hours to france.

Makes flying Ryanair all the more appealing so it does, for as close as that gets you to your destination.

Grayson · 14-11-2014 04:29PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

the reason it works between England and France has a lot to do with how narrow (relativly speaking) the English Channel is where it's going under water.

Isn't our closest land to land point with the UK between Northern Ireland and Scotland?

There'd be no point in getting the train from Dublin, a couple of hours up north, a couple of hours to scotland, a long haul south to London to transfar for a few more hours to france.

Makes flying Ryanair all the more appealing so it does, for as close as that gets you to your destination.

Irishrail is a disaster. It'd be a hundred miles of a train that goes 20 miles an hour. And costs 10 times more than an ryanair.

pauld · 14-11-2014 04:29PM

The Welsh have it on their wish list.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-30014563

robinph · 14-11-2014 04:32PM

Dublin to Holyhead is too far to build, same with Roslare to Pembroke. Larne to Stranraer might be feasable to build, but who would choose to travel that way to get between Dublin and London? Would only be useful for freight, but even that would be a tricky case as even the slow ferry from Wales to Dublin is quicker than a train up to Scotland and back down again.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 14-11-2014 04:40PM

A lot depends on the suitability of the seabed also, it could jack up the cost significantly. Dublin Holyhead is obviously a non starter and NI Scotland doesn't make logistical sense. A lorry leaving Dublin bound for London isn't going drive to the North then cross to Scotland and drive a further 400 miles south.

The ferry service works fine most of the time anyway doesn't it?

Birneybau · 14-11-2014 04:50PM

A big, inflatable bridge!

twin_beacon · 14-11-2014 04:54PM

would it be viable? we dont use trains for freight in Ireland much, we transport our containers on lorries. Considering the cost to build it maintain it, I doubt it would ever be cost effective.

Mint Sauce · 14-11-2014 04:55PM

Hold the Cheez Whiz wrote: »

That would theoretically be great, as Ireland would be linked through London to Continental Europe.

Leaving aside cost issues for the moment, has anyone though through the logistics/engineering bit? What would this system actually look like?

It would be pretty much only Dublin to start of with, and would need massive investment to the rail infrastructure here, due to the difference in rail gauge, and pretty much single track once you leave dublin and the other terminals around the country.

Kidchameleon · 14-11-2014 04:56PM

Wasn't there a tunnel started but never completed years and years ago? I remember reading about it on Boards.

BBJBIG · 14-11-2014 04:57PM

Jayzus - shure if Paddy was buildin it, it would chost a fortune to build and I guarantee yis that the Roof would be leakin 5 minutes after the opening ceremony ...

DEFTLEFTHAND · 14-11-2014 05:02PM

twin_beacon wrote: »

would it be viable? we dont use trains for freight in Ireland much, we transport our containers on lorries. Considering the cost to build it maintain it, I doubt it would ever be cost effective.

It's not actual railfreight with the Eurostar. The lorries drive on to special carriages, the train just brings them across the channel.

Gannicus · 14-11-2014 05:16PM

Hold the Cheez Whiz wrote: »

That would theoretically be great, as Ireland would be linked through London to Continental Europe.

Leaving aside cost issues for the moment, has anyone though through the logistics/engineering bit? What would this system actually look like?

I saw a documentary years ago about a bullet train running from the west coast or Ireland/Scotland to New York that could boast a time of 4 - 4.5 hours the engiineering side claim its is possible but not sustainable due to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge so I wonder if it would play a part between Dublin to even Wales never mind London

SEPT 23 1989 · 14-11-2014 05:21PM

is a 1.5 hour sailing not quick enough?

Gannicus · 14-11-2014 05:23PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

is a 1.5 hour sailing not quick enough?

if you're going to Holyhead thats alright but ferry to london is a tad longer

and lets face it, it would be far more efficient to train things to london than ferry them

Alun · 14-11-2014 05:27PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

is a 1.5 hour sailing not quick enough?

The current fast ferries do it in 2 hrs (Irish Ferries, if they actually sail which they often don't due to weather) or 2hrs 20min (Stena, but only during the summer). The normal ferries take 3 hrs 15mins.

keithclancy · 14-11-2014 05:30PM

Nah.

Most people I know don't take the Eurostar anyway, its expensive.

Much cheaper to take DFDS/Stena, crossing is only 55 minutes vs 35 minutes for the Chunnel with Car.

I might take it once, but it would mostly be for novelty value.

Plus investing that amount of money to reach an Island of only 4.2ish million people wouldn't make financial sense.

topper75 · 14-11-2014 05:31PM

No case for it lads.

I know that is a negative statement, but negative realism trumps the old can-do positive pie in the sky.

kneemos · 14-11-2014 05:44PM

Last I heard the Channel Tunnel was billions in debt.
Don't see the Irish equivalent being economic.

seamus · 14-11-2014 05:46PM

Ultimately the distance isn't the primary barrier in any such tunnel.

The main barriers are;

1. The fact that we have very little rail infrastructure, and no rail "culture" in Ireland. Any tunnel would require massive investment in rail infrastructure. Like hundreds of billions, on top of the cost of the tunnel. Otherwise the tunnel would basically need everyone to drive to/from the terminus - just like you do with ferries. You probably couldn't recoup the cost of spending for a couple of hundred years.

2. The alternatives are not slow. At the time this was originally proposed in the 1800s, rail was by far the fastest way of getting around, so a rail link across the sea would speed up international travel massively. As it stands, a tunnel would mean a 1 hour crossing from Dublin to Holyhead by train. Versus a two-hour crossing by boat. Not that big a difference in reality.

For a much smaller investment we could improve links between the two countries by building ports which aren't slap bang in metropolitan areas like Dublin and Dun Laoghaire and providing world-class road and rails links to them.

keithclancy · 14-11-2014 05:52PM

Could they not just heap loads of dirt into the sea until they got to Wales instead ?

waraf · 14-11-2014 05:55PM

pauld wrote: »

The Welsh have it on their wish list.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-30014563

Loving the quote from Prof. Stuart Cole in that piece

"We're talking about something like £15bn......so we're not talking about a massive amount of money in the world of governments"

Yeah - try asking the Irish government to trump up half that amount Prof and see what they say

fryup · 14-11-2014 06:27PM

but we'll be no longer an island

and it'll make this song kinda obsolete ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAiYLTiBiDk

MadYaker · 14-11-2014 06:55PM

As long as Ryanair are selling flights to the UK for 40 quid what's the point?

who the fug · 14-11-2014 07:00PM

BBJBIG wrote: »

Jayzus - shure if Paddy was buildin it, it would chost a fortune to build and I guarantee yis that the Roof would be leakin 5 minutes after the opening ceremony ...

Think you will find them Donegal lads did a great job on the channel tunnel, paddy's do build exceptionaly great tunnels

Eurostar at 20: Should Ireland have a eurostar service with the U.K?

Comments