Stallions

ronsh2000 wrote: »

He had injury problems before the race. Four days after the race it was announced that he had suffered a recurrence of the injury. He was sent to Newmarket for treatment where it was recommended that he be retired. I think it is fair to assume that he wasn't at his best that day.

That's a cop out. He suffered an injury while winning the German Derby but mysteriously the same injury was blamed for him loosing the PVB ? its easy to say an injury cost the defeat instead of saying the better horse on the day won. Injuries are never mentioned in victory but are shouted in defeat.

ronsh2000 wrote: »

They retired him straight after on veterinary advice.

The initial "injury" accrued in the German derby but there was not mention of that because he won the race. but. out of the blue he loses and they mention an injury ? YEA RIGHT.


LEADING Qatar Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe contender Sea The Moon has been ruled out of the race and the rest of the season after suffering a recurrence of the injury he picked up after winning the Deutsches Derby in emphatic fashion.
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/treve-just-a-way-taghrooda-injury-rules-german-star-sea-the-moon-out-of-arc/1719194/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

You are free to call it whatever you like. but I find it a bit miraculous that they don't mention the injury following a victory in the German Derby when it actually occurred but mention it after a defeat.

If he had an injury before the race, and the injury recurred after the race, then it's reasonable to surmise that he wasn't at his peak during the race.

Fame and Glory progeny selling well at the NH sales this week

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

We saw a photo of Australias injury and why he was retired. We never saw proof of Sea the Moons injury. I'm not saying they lied about him being injured But I will say it's easy to say the horse was injured instead of saying the better horse won the race. maybe that's the new excuse. if a heavily favorite horse loses a race just say he was injured and all will be forgiven.

Hang on, we saw a photo of an injured hoof and we were told it was Australia's...

tryfix wrote: »

Sea The Stars did the business with his first crop of 3yos. He has enough about him to be a regular supplier of group horses, but there are legitimate questions hanging over his worth as a sire.

Can't really take the notion of his stock not training on seriousl/y. Taghrooda from a terrible draw ran well in admittedly crap Arc. Sea The Moon's position as a really Top Horse was based on a freakish race where he ran across the track seeking better ground and he may just not have been the superstar people thought he was.

The lack of 2yo group winners. 1 group winner out of 2 crops bred from the best of broodmares.

The lack of a top Irish, English or French colt by Sea The Stars.

He should keep banging in the winners with a few GP1 performers as well. No Galileo is he.

It's hard to be a really top stallion with all the brilliant sires around at the moment. New Approach had an awesome first crop and has gone quiet, Mastercraftsman had a terrific first crop who improved with age and his second crop haven't set the world on fire. Henrythenavigator went backward after a great start. Beginners luck seems to be a thing with stallions.

One of the benefits of being around so long is that I've been blessed to have witnessed so many booms and many more bust. you are correct with the beginners luck angle. I recall years ago when Peintre Celebre went to stud at Coolmore. He had 5 G1 winners in his first crop He was useful but he will not be remembered as a SUPER STALLION. In our sport there is always a rush to find the "next one" that many don't take the tie to admire whats in front of them.domination by Stallions Danhill, Sadler's Wells and current King Galileo should be admired and not easily wiped away because a new sire has a few G1 winners under his belt. I wish Sea the Stars all the best but I need to see more.

STS was a great racehorse and with his breeding he will be a great stallion but raising his fee that much is crazy .If i was thinking of bringing a mare to him id wait a season , his fee cant go any higher and might just go down .

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

I'm repeating myself. Sea the Stars' foals sell for an average of 3 x the cover fee. this is going to have a HUGE say on his stud fee. You do realize Mastercraftsman's average is 48k. He is obviously doing very well but do you really think Coolmore could stand him at 80 grand or something, nearly twice his average sales. These are facts not opinions

No disrespect but just because you wouldn't call a classic a classic does not mean it is not so.

You also say New Approach is ''only' up to 80k. That is over 100k Euro and bearing in mind this year was hardly an exceptional one for him

Ok fair enough we'll agree to disagree, you think he's fairly priced I think he is way over priced.

Regarding the classics,just because it has derby in the name you call it a classic? Very misleading to say a stallion has bred 3 "classic" winners when all they've won were the swedish derby, slovakian oaks and indian guineas? I draw the line at English, Irish and French.

If his sales results had such a huge effect on his increase why wasn't he raised after his first crop foals, or his second or his third went through the ring, which makes up substantiallly the 240k whatever figure you mentioned? It's quite clear the increase is primarily due to his performers on the track, which is why the increase is so ludicrous.

Yes New Approach THIS TIME LAST YEAR was 100k euro - 25k CHEAPER than STS after having a better first crop. I was comparing the two at the same stage of their stallion careers. Given the fact New Approach disapointed this year further proves to me that STS is overpriced - far too much risk. STS is not a proven sire by any means and if over the next couple of years he has duds then I don't care what they were selling for in the interim, you'll do well to get a return out of the 125k. given the that if you use STS this year the earliest you sell is 2 yrs down the line

I've made my point and I feel pretty strongly about it. He's basically close to the second most expensive sire in Europe and has bred 3 G1 winners, one of which was by dq, the other a german derby. If you have 125k to spend on him though you're obviously doing better than me!

bellybuster12 wrote: »

Good trade at the foal sales in goffs this week. Sir Prancealot,s foals received very well. The first of the Frankels through the ring tomorrow, think there are 6 in total, will be interesting. All eyes will be on this filly http://goffs.com/sales-results/sales/november-foal-sale-2014/897/

Sir Prancealot foals are selling well ? Hmm I wounder if they will up his fee to 85,000.

Lope de Vega selling extremely well, he had the top four lots prior to today. Casamento also going extremely well

Sds got the very very best mares on the planet yet from that crop of mares ,some are running over the sticks.when the second /third tier of progeny start to run then its time to really rate him as a flat sire.it has to be a worry that he cannot throw a 2yr old and most of his stock need a trip.he is seriously bred on the dam side to suggest his daughters should throw in time.to finish i cannot have him as a serious sire of flat types but as previous posted (before stud duties)he will throw some smashing 3m chasers IMO.

sting60 wrote: »

Sds got the very very best mares on the planet yet from that crop of mares ,some are running over the sticks

Were you expecting 120 classic winners?

Anyone here use Westerner ?
He's not over big, would you need a made that breeds them big for him ?

Not sure I would like Getaway