EU states can refuse benefits to migrants, top court rules

NewYork1979 · 13-11-2014 04:29PM

Nodin wrote: »

How do you know they were getting anything for "free"?

How do you know they are paying?

Nodin · 13-11-2014 04:32PM

NewYork1979 wrote: »

How do you know they are paying?

I've no idea either way. You, however, looked at them, saw they were "foriegners" (by some process unknown to me) and then assumed "Maybe I am wrong but I'd hazard a guess these ladies haven't built up a huge stamp, I've 17 years of a stamp."

NewYork1979 · 13-11-2014 04:34PM

Exactly, perhaps I am wrong too which I alluded to in my first post.

You are missing my point. In your head I just saw foreigners and decided I'd have a moan so there isn't much point me arguing with you.

Nodin · 13-11-2014 04:39PM

NewYork1979 wrote: »

Exactly, perhaps I am wrong too which I alluded to in my first post.

You are missing my point. In your head I just saw foreigners and decided I'd have a moan so there isn't much point me arguing with you.

Yep. It's in my head because that happens to sum up your post though.

NewYork1979 · 13-11-2014 04:40PM

Ps I get pissed off when I see a person on benefits who is Irish, having child after child. This isn't about race. The difference is, we have to look after our own, we have no choice but as a country I wonder when will we draw a line on looking after non-nationals.

I don't have the stats as I don't have the time to look them up but if it's proven to me that foreign nationals contribute more then they take then I'll absolutely stand corrected.

NewYork1979 · 13-11-2014 04:41PM

Nodin wrote: »

Yep. It's in my head because that happens to sum up your post though.

It sums it up that way to you as you decided I'm a racist of some sort so you are reading my post with that preconceived view.

Nodin · 13-11-2014 04:44PM

NewYork1979 wrote: »

Ps I get pissed off when I see a person on benefits who is Irish, having child after child. This isn't about race. The difference is, we have to look after our own, we have no choice but as a country I wonder when will we draw a line on looking after non-nationals.

I don't have the stats as I don't have the time to look them up but if it's proven to me that foreign nationals contribute more then they take then I'll absolutely stand corrected.

There's no such thing as a non-national.

I didn't mention race. As the vast majority who arrived here are from within Europe, its fairly irrelevant.

RobYourBuilder · 13-11-2014 06:17PM

Nodin wrote: »

There's no such thing as a non-national.

Yes there is. There are 10 million people around the world who are stateless. I can be extremely pedantic too. Annoying, isn't it?

Nodin wrote:

I didn't mention race. As the vast majority who arrived here are from within Europe, its fairly irrelevant.

You did. You brought race into it within ten minutes of this thread being posted. Very telling.

Nodin · 13-11-2014 06:21PM

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

You did. You brought race into it within ten minutes of this thread being posted. Very telling.

You mean the joke? Dear me.

RobYourBuilder · 13-11-2014 07:07PM

Nodin wrote: »

You mean the joke? Dear me.

I don't get the joke. Is it a quote from a film or something?

Nodin · 13-11-2014 07:17PM

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

I don't get the joke. Is it a quote from a film or something?

It's fairly obvious what its about, given the context of the previous posts.

Gatling · 13-11-2014 07:18PM

Nodin wrote: »

There's no such thing as a non-national.

I didn't mention race. As the vast majority who arrived here are from within Europe, its fairly irrelevant.

That's not entirely true

The biggest influx of people who came here are from Poland and Nigeria .
Followed by a mix of nations
If I remember correctly

Nodin · 13-11-2014 07:23PM

Gatling wrote: »

That's not entirely true

The biggest influx of people who came here are from Poland and Nigeria .
Followed by a mix of nations
If I remember correctly

The Nigerians are the largest group amongst the African arrivals, but "black" people number about 60,000 in total and Poles alone 122,000 or so.

Gatling · 13-11-2014 07:27PM

Nodin wrote: »

The Nigerians are the largest group amongst the African arrivals, but "black" people number about 60,000 in total and Poles alone 122,000 or so.

I think the numbers are higher for both groups

Nodin · 13-11-2014 07:30PM

Gatling wrote: »

I think the numbers are higher for both groups

I personally thought there were more Poles, however
http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/pressreleasecensus2011profile6migrationanddiversity/

The figure from the same census for black African descent is (approx) 58,000 with 6,000 or so black "of other ancestry".

Gatling · 13-11-2014 07:39PM

Nodin wrote: »

I personally thought there were more Poles, however
http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/pressreleasecensus2011profile6migrationanddiversity/

The figure from the same census for black African descent is (approx) 58,000 with 6,000 or so black "of other ancestry".

560,000 apparently reported as of this year

276,000 unemployed
19,000 retired

Nodin · 13-11-2014 07:41PM

Gatling wrote: »

560,000 apparently reported as of this year

276,000 unemployed
19,000 retired

You've a source for that fairly large figure?

DeadHand · 13-11-2014 07:42PM

Gatling wrote: »

560,000 apparently reported as of this year

276,000 unemployed
19,000 retired

Sorry, what are you referring to?

560,000 non-nationals in total?

Source?

Gatling · 13-11-2014 08:16PM

Nodin wrote: »

You've a source for that fairly large figure?

Source for the 560,000 or the unemployed

Nodin · 13-11-2014 08:19PM

Gatling wrote: »

Source for the 560,000 or the unemployed

560,000, if ye would. I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

Pro Hoc Vice · 13-11-2014 08:23PM

Nodin wrote: »

There's no such thing as a non-national.

I didn't mention race. As the vast majority who arrived here are from within Europe, its fairly irrelevant.

Yes non national is the correct term and has a specific legal meaning as set out in relevant legislation.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1999/en/act/pub/0022/sec0001.html#sec1

Pro Hoc Vice · 13-11-2014 08:29PM

Gatling wrote: »

That's not entirely true

The biggest influx of people who came here are from Poland and Nigeria .
Followed by a mix of nations
If I remember correctly

Yes and no largest group of non Irish in Ireland is polish followed by uk in second place.

Tough figures 750,000 non national in Ireland. About 150,000 uk about 50,000 old EU about 300,000 new EU about 250,000 rest of world maybe 300,000 of which between 50-100k illegal. Again figures are tough.

Gatling · 13-11-2014 08:39PM

Nodin wrote: »

560,000, if ye would. I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

544,000 in 2011 with an average increase of 30% per year in years 2006 and 2011 which would suggest the number is higher in 2014 than the number posted statistically

The figures were posted in a previous thread ill see can I dig them out

Nodin · 13-11-2014 08:42PM

Gatling wrote: »

544,000 in 2011 with an average increase of 30% per year in years 2006 and 2011 which would suggest the number is higher in 2013 than the number posted statistically

The figures were posted in a previous thread ill see can I dig them out

That'd be for foreign nationals generally though, I was only talking about Poles.

UCDVet · 13-11-2014 09:43PM

I honestly don't see why we give any benefits to migrants. It never made any sense to me.

RobYourBuilder · 13-11-2014 09:52PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I honestly don't see why we give any benefits to migrants. It never made any sense to me.

Only permanent residents, people given refugee status and Irish citizens genuinely looking for work should be entitled to welfare. There are over 60,000 EU citizens on Jobseekers Allowance here. A non contributory means tested benefit.

It's for the birds.

Gatling · 13-11-2014 10:01PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I honestly don't see why we give any benefits to migrants. It never made any sense to me.

Apparently it's because it's the civilised thing to do give to those who don't have anything

Nodin · 13-11-2014 10:29PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I honestly don't see why we give any benefits to migrants. It never made any sense to me.

And should some unfortunate series of events leave you in desperate need of assistance?

RobYourBuilder · 13-11-2014 10:43PM

Nodin wrote: »

And should some unfortunate series of events leave you in desperate need of assistance?

Hit up your nearest embassy or tap up the European Repatriation Fund for a flight home.

Gatling · 13-11-2014 11:00PM

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Hit up your nearest embassy or tap up the European Repatriation Fund for a flight home.

Actually there's government assistance available here to those who want to return home.

Something I'd say could work if you come here with no job or career prospects your embassy should support you for a short period and if no employment is secured they fly you home

EU states can refuse benefits to migrants, top court rules

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