My salary is €93,338 says Irish charity boss...do you think this is too much?

micosoft · 13-11-2014 03:20PM

fastrac wrote: »

Charities got used to easy money during the boom and are now finding it very hard to make the adjustment to the reality of 2014.Look at the boards of the Charities that dominate in Ireland and you will find the same names over and over. Another Irish Golden Circle.

Or more likely, Ireland is a small country with a limited number of talented people able to contribute at board level. FYI I don't know of a single charitable board that pays board members - they freely give of their time. Most are senior executives with experiance in Audit, HR, Finance, Change etc who make a huge contribution to the operations of these charities. What skills would you bring to a charitable board?

jetsonx · 13-11-2014 03:47PM

But if these high-salaried folks are so good - how come you rarely find a Irish charity CEO from a purely private-sector
background? They always seem to emanate from a quango, another government-sponsored charity or as another posted has mentioned
the "charity golden circle". You never hear of an Irish charity CEO who used to work for a company like Vodafone or Tesco?

corner of hells · 13-11-2014 04:06PM

jetsonx wrote: »

But if these high-salaried folks are so good - how come you rarely find a Irish charity CEO from a purely private-sector
background? They always seem to emanate from a quango, another government-sponsored charity or as another posted has mentioned
the "charity golden circle". You never hear of an Irish charity CEO who used to work for a company like Vodafone or Tesco?

I think the top earning charities in Ireland are generally hospitals fundraising groups , I know one of the CEOs from one of them myself ,hes related to me and was recruited from the dole queue originally after being made redundant from Guinnes kindof similar to Vodafone or Tesco.

suicide_circus · 13-11-2014 04:17PM

I understand that CEOs of large organisations command large salaries but I cant help being put off donating cash from my pitiful wages when the majority of my contribution won't be seen by the end user, those in need, and the majority will go on staff salaries, marketing etc. Make no mistake, charities and NGOs are an industry employing thousands upon thousands of people, the fact that some of their profits go to charitable causes is almost secondary.

13-11-2014 04:24PM

Say you were a nurse working for a charity that provided services to those that sleep out should he/she be paid less or more that a nurse working for someone doing cosmetic surgery. How do you decide what is worthy.

A lot of large charities are really not for profit organisations, charity is a very old fashioned idea.

Hold the Cheez Whiz · 13-11-2014 04:38PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Doesn't bother me.

But then again I wouldn't give any money to a 'charity' that has a CEO as I don't consider them charities.

Someone has to run the organization. Do you object to the title, or the fact that there is a front(wo)man?

suicide_circus wrote: »

I understand that CEOs of large organisations command large salaries but I cant help being put off donating cash from my pitiful wages when the majority of my contribution won't be seen by the end user, those in need, and the majority will go on staff salaries, marketing etc. Make no mistake, charities and NGOs are an industry employing thousands upon thousands of people, the fact that some of their profits go to charitable causes is almost secondary.

You can look up data on that though. Any organization is going to have some kind of administrative overhead, but spending 10-15% of revenues on administration isn't unreasonable.

Hold the Cheez Whiz · 13-11-2014 04:40PM

I wonder how much the reaction to charity salaries in Ireland is also down to the fact that traditionally, many charity presidents weren't paid because they were priests or nuns? This has become an issue in a lot of Catholic social institutions (schools and hospitals in particular) in the U.S. - they never had to pay the key staff in the past, and now that the numbers of priests and nuns are shrinking, they have to increasingly rely on paid staff, and the level of pay is an issue.

Grayson · 13-11-2014 04:43PM

jetsonx wrote: »

But if these high-salaried folks are so good - how come you rarely find a Irish charity CEO from a purely private-sector
background? They always seem to emanate from a quango, another government-sponsored charity or as another posted has mentioned
the "charity golden circle". You never hear of an Irish charity CEO who used to work for a company like Vodafone or Tesco?

Charities are actually closer in organisational structure to a public sector service rather than a private sector company.

PizzamanIRL · 13-11-2014 04:44PM

People see the word 'charity' and think that anybody working for it should earn hardly anything. At the end of the day it's still a business and the people at the top of the ladder will earn the most of course.

corner of hells · 13-11-2014 04:54PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Say you were a nurse working for a charity that provided services to those that sleep out should he/she be paid less or more that a nurse working for someone doing cosmetic surgery. How do you decide what is worthy.

A lot of large charities are really not for profit organisations, charity is a very old fashioned idea.

A lot of charities that employ nurses or other medical professionals employ those with particular skills or experience often around addiction , mental health with specifor leaning towards low threshold.
The charity I work for pays all its frontline staff exactly the same irregardless your education.

13-11-2014 05:02PM

corner of hells wrote: »

A lot of charities that employ nurses or other medical professionals employ those with particular skills or experience often around addiction , mental health with specifor leaning towards low threshold.
The charity I work for pays all its frontline staff exactly the same irregardless your education.

My point is more around the ideas of what is worthy and the metal image people have of charities. Why are some services provided by charities, they should be provided by not for profit organisation through a services level agreement with the various government department, fundraising for the organisation should be done through a foundation set up to support the organisation.

bur · 13-11-2014 05:02PM

Yes, charities shouldn't be run as businesses. It's why there are so many bad ones.

corner of hells · 13-11-2014 05:42PM

mariaalice wrote: »

My point is more around the ideas of what is worthy and the metal image people have of charities. Why are some services provided by charities, they should be provided by not for profit organisation through a services level agreement with the various government department, fundraising for the organisation should be done through a foundation set up to support the organisation.

Ive only ever worked in homelessness / drug services / hostels , what you are saying does actually happen , needle exchanges are supplied by HSE , some hostels are DCC hostels either run by charities or by local authorities themselves etc.
There is a lot of of interagency work done by charities and local.authorities.

Soft Falling Rain · 13-11-2014 05:53PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Doesn't bother me.

But then again I wouldn't give any money to a 'charity' that has a CEO as I don't consider them charities.

In 2011 it was estimated that it roughly took €10m a year to keep just Dublin Simon running. Half of that was government funded, other half had to be fundraised.

Given that the government has increasingly dealt cuts to Homeless services over the years, there's an even bigger emphasis on fundraising.

Organising such demands very much requires a CEO, and a proper management structure in order to ensure funds are put to the maximum use.

Meathlass · 13-11-2014 06:17PM

mariaalice wrote: »

My point is more around the ideas of what is worthy and the metal image people have of charities. Why are some services provided by charities, they should be provided by not for profit organisation through a services level agreement with the various government department, fundraising for the organisation should be done through a foundation set up to support the organisation.

I volunteer with SVP. We regularly get calls from social workers in the HSE asking can we provide crèche fees or school bus fees for example for at risk families that they work with. There's so little funding available that charity's are regularly being asked to plug the gap.

The Backwards Man · 13-11-2014 06:26PM

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

In 2011 it was estimated that it roughly took €10m a year to keep just Dublin Simon running. Half of that was government funded, other half had to be fundraised.

Given that the government has increasingly dealt cuts to Homeless services over the years, there's an even bigger emphasis on fundraising.

Organising such demands very much requires a CEO, and a proper management structure in order to ensure funds are put to the maximum use.

Fair enough, and if people want to donate to organisations like that then that's fair enough too, it's just not for me.

For me, anything less than 100% isn't maximising funds.

Specialun · 13-11-2014 06:35PM

Meh

I wipe my a55 with that kinda cash

mikeym · 13-11-2014 06:42PM

Why should I give money to a charity that pays a CEO €93,000 a year.

Its madness.

And then theres the charities that dont disclose their CEO's salaries.

I wonder what their doing with the donations?

13-11-2014 06:44PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Fair enough, and if people want to donate to organisations like that then that's fair enough too, it's just not for me.

For me, anything less than 100% isn't maximising funds.

How should it be run then?

seamus · 13-11-2014 06:50PM

bur wrote: »

Yes, charities shouldn't be run as businesses. It's why there are so many bad ones.

The bad ones are the ones that have paid staff but aren't run like a business.
Running it like a community project rather than a business results in huge wastage, low staff morale and a very scattered and disjointed organisational structure. I've seen it happen to family members, it's an absolute mess and the ones who suffer are the staff and the charity cases they're trying to help.

Taking in money and running it as a community project is fine once it's all volunteers. Once someone is depending on the money for their livelihood, it's need to be run as a proper business.

On the other end of the scale of course then you get the likes of Concern and rehab where when it becomes too much like a business, it seems to lose sight of the purpose of the business and again massive amounts of money are wasted on running costs rather than being spent on charitable works.

The Backwards Man · 13-11-2014 06:59PM

mariaalice wrote: »

How should it be run then?

They can run them whatever they want, I don't care. I just won't be donating to them.

I don't donate money, time, or anything else unless I know for a fact there are no wages, running costs or administration fees coming off the back of it.

Soft Falling Rain · 13-11-2014 07:27PM

mikeym wrote: »

Why should I give money to a charity that pays a CEO €93,000 a year.

Why does a CEO being on €90k make it any less of a charity? Simon is a huge operation, which runs a multitude of services all targeted at getting people away from homelessness.

They are services that are literally saving lives, but saving those lives isn't cheap. As I said, huge operations are in place in order to support people getting back on their feet, and a highly skilled management structure is needed in order to ensure that.

blackwhite · 13-11-2014 07:39PM

jetsonx wrote: »

But if these high-salaried folks are so good - how come you rarely find a Irish charity CEO from a purely private-sector
background? They always seem to emanate from a quango, another government-sponsored charity or as another posted has mentioned
the "charity golden circle". You never hear of an Irish charity CEO who used to work for a company like Vodafone or Tesco?

I'd imagine it's because the salaries on offer in these charities aren't actually that high when compared to what's on offer in the private sector.

If I was offered a job that would involve taking a pay cut, to move into a role where I was going to be criticised for having too high a salary (despite the pay being lower than the private sector), and with the papers potentially reporting on what car I drive (among other things), then I wouldn't be overly keen to take it either.

blackwhite · 13-11-2014 07:42PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

They can run them whatever they want, I don't care. I just won't be donating to them.

I don't donate money, time, or anything else unless I know for a fact there are no wages, running costs or administration fees coming off the back of it.

So you just don't donate to charity then?

There isn't a charity in the world that can operate without incurring running costs. Doing pretty much any activity costs money - i.e. running costs.

One eyed Jack · 13-11-2014 07:52PM

blackwhite wrote: »

So you just don't donate to charity then?

There isn't a charity in the world that can operate without incurring running costs. Doing pretty much any activity costs money - i.e. running costs.

I don't think BM meant that he doesn't donate to charity, just not a charity who's CEO is on the guts of €100k annual salary while they still hold the begging bowl out for more money from the public.

I wouldn't donate to that particular charity either, nor would I donate money to any charity which spends that kind of money on administrative costs (running costs are another matter entirely).

The Backwards Man · 13-11-2014 07:53PM

blackwhite wrote: »

So you just don't donate to charity then?

There isn't a charity in the world that can operate without incurring running costs. Doing pretty much any activity costs money - i.e. running costs.

I do my own thing.

Macavity. · 13-11-2014 08:00PM

Meh, I'm not really concerned with the "Oh, but he makes over xxxxxxxx amount for the company.....". To me, if they are earning over the average wage I'm not going to donate to their charity. I just think I'd be a fool to donate to something like that. Am very much opposed to these charities that provide certain people with huge profits.

foxy farmer · 13-11-2014 08:13PM

If you read through their financial statements for a year you'd be surprised to see what money they leave sitting in accounts. I read one of these reports from one of the irish charities. They had 7 million sitting in accounts at the start of the financial year. Income amounted to another 6.5million. They gave out another 7 million. So at the end of the year the acounts still showed 6.5 million. Why does a charity need to hold that much in reserve? Give it out to those who need it.

Soft Falling Rain · 13-11-2014 08:21PM

foxy farmer wrote: »

If you read through their financial statements for a year you'd be surprised to see what money they leave sitting in accounts. I read one of these reports from one of the irish charities. They had 7 million sitting in accounts at the start of the financial year. Income amounted to another 6.5million. They gave out another 7 million. So at the end of the year the acounts still showed 6.5 million. Why does a charity need to hold that much in reserve? Give it out to those who need it.

From my understanding any thing that is in 'surplus' at the end of the financial year is taken into account by the government when they're assessing the following year's funding.

Ideally most charities don't want any surplus at the end of the year as it suggests to the government that they're providing too much funding already. I don't know what charity you speak of but it sounds very poorly run if it has that much of a surplus.

Manach · 13-11-2014 08:31PM

Charity should be a matter of amateurism, an ad-hoc voluteering of for societal good. That they call themselves CEOs in ape of Businesses indicates something clearly wrong were the implemenators of charity are modelled on a process that values the marginalised least.

My salary is €93,338 says Irish charity boss...do you think this is too much?

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