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EU states can refuse benefits to migrants, top court rules

1246

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  • #92
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Aisha Ahmed (49), who has been living in Tallaght, is sought for extradition to be jailed for her part in a cocaine importing operation in Naples 14 years ago.

    She is the wife of a taxi driver Yemi Moshood Olatunde (47), who was arrested earlier this week following an international manhunt.

    Both maintained they were arrested in cases of mistaken identity but the High Court heard their fingerprints were "absolute matches" for the couple being sought by Interpol.

    Mr Justice John Edwards remanded Ahmed in custody yesterday after making the same order in the case of her husband on Wednesday.

    He said he was satisfied the woman before the court and Aisha Ahmed were "one and the same person", despite her denials.

    The couple's cases have been adjourned pending full extradition proceedings.

    Keiran Kelly BL, for the respondent, had argued that the identification documents - fingerprints and a photograph - were not admissible in evidence.

    Ahmed's arrest hearing was told the respondent was a naturalised Irish citizen and had been living under the name of Gloria Aro at Sundale Parade, Tallaght. Her husband had been living under the name Roy Yemmy Andrew Aro.

    Ahmed's sentence was for the offence of, as promoter, leader or organiser, taking part in an association with the purposes of committing an indefinite number of crimes involving the importation, sale, distribution, trade and illicit possession of "remarkable quantities" of cocaine at locations in Italy between 1999 and 2000.

    She had been given a 22-year sentence in 2005 which was later reduced to 20 years.

    The court heard a diffusion document - requesting the location and arrest of Ahmed - was sent to the Irish authorities by Interpol in Italy.

    Attached were her fingerprints and a her photograph.

    Sergeant Jim Kirwan told the court when he went to the respondents' home address on Thursday, she was not at home and he left his card with her family.

    He returned yesterday in possession of a European Arrest Warrant and spoke to Ahmed. When asked her name she said she was Gloria Aro and denied that she was also known as Aisha Ahmed.

    She gave a date of birth in December 1967 and said she was Nigerian but told him she had never lived in Italy.

    Sgt Kirwan showed her the photograph from Interpol and when he asked if it was her, she replied: "No."

    Ahmed said she had never been to Italy. She was arrested and brought to Tallaght Garda Station where she provided fingerprints that matched those of the person being sought.

    The court heard she was a naturalised Irish citizen and had a passport in the name of Gloria Anwelika Aro.

    She had registered with the Garda National Immigration Bureau in the same name when she arrived here.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/wife-of-cocaine-fugitive-wanted-for-same-crime-30692389.html
    The court heard she was a naturalised Irish citizen and had a passport in the name of Gloria Anwelika Aro.

    Yep. The process seems real f*cking stringent alright. Shatter naturalised 60 odd thousand. I'm sure all applicants were vetted thoroughly.


  • #93
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well, the outcome is obvious seeing as the family gained Irish citizenship.

    No it bloody well isn't.

    Citizenship was most likely the outcome of the anchor baby from the good old days that we are paying for now.


  • #94
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/wife-of-cocaine-fugitive-wanted-for-same-crime-30692389.html



    Yep. The process seems real f*cking stringent alright. Shatter naturalised 60 odd thousand. I'm sure all applicants were vetted thoroughly.


    So you're saying they're all dodgy, some are or what? Should we treat all of them with suspicion?


  • #95
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Nodin wrote: »
    So you're saying they're all dodgy, some are or what? Should we treat all of them with suspicion?

    If international drug dealers on the lam from Italian authorities and Interpol are gaining naturalised Irish citizenship, then excuse me for thinking that there is something very f*cking wrong with the naturalisation process.


  • #96
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    If international drug dealers on the lam from Italian authorities and Interpol are gaining naturalised Irish citizenship, then excuse me for thinking that there is something very f*cking wrong with the naturalisation process.


    If you can point to a system that nobody has ever gotten around, I'd be glad to read up on it.


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  • #97
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Nodin wrote: »
    If you can point to a system that nobody has ever gotten around, I'd be glad to read up on it.

    Country with the highest proportion of immigrants on the dole in the EU: Ireland.

    Country were a couple can undergo a marriage for convenience for visa purposes and it not being illegal: Ireland.

    Country were over a third of all non EU students are here illegally: Ireland.

    Country with the highest number of failed asylum seekers in the EU: Ireland.

    It's a not just one or two slipping the system.


  • #98
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Country with the highest proportion of immigrants on the dole in the EU: Ireland.

    Country were a couple can undergo a marriage for convenience for visa purposes and it not being illegal: Ireland.

    Country were over a third of all non EU students are here illegally: Ireland.

    Country with the highest number of failed asylum seekers in the EU: Ireland.

    It's a not just one or two slipping the system.


    I thought we were talking about people gaining Irish citizenship?


  • #99
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Nodin wrote: »
    I thought we were talking about people gaining Irish citizenship?

    No, were discussing yet another aspect of immigration we continue to make a balls of and the price we continue to pay.


  • #100
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    reprise wrote: »
    No, were discussing yet another aspect of immigration we continue to make a balls of and the price we continue to pay.

    What price would that be?


  • #101
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Yeah yeah... she got a mobile phone and a car too...

    One minute you are trying to parody people who bring up the "they get free cars" thing.
    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    So what? Whats the problem with Africans getting that grant?

    The next minute you are asking what's the problem if they do get grants for cars.

    Funny stuff.


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  • #102
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Nodin wrote: »
    I thought we were talking about people gaining Irish citizenship?

    We were originally talking about welfare providing free prams. That was dropped when it turned out that 10,000s get them. Then we moved onto Supplementary Welfare Allowance and the "you have to have worked here for two years" myth. Then about the American lad illegally here on the dole who satisfied the HRC. All were quickly dropped. Then lads were laughing at the thoughts of welfare giving out cars. Turns out the unemployed can get a grant for a taxi and the recipient can keep their BTWA for three years. That was quickly dropped too. Surprise, surprise!

    And we weren't talking about anything. At least you weren't. You were continuosly nitpicking, trying to catch people out and interrogating.


  • #103
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Nodin wrote: »
    What price would that be?

    Who shot who in the what now?


  • #104
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    We were originally talking about welfare providing free prams. That was dropped when it turned out that 10,000s get them. .

    An amount towards certain items can be received. They do not give out free prams.
    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Then we moved onto Supplementary Welfare Allowance and the "you have to have worked here for two years" myth. Then about the American lad illegally here on the dole who satisfied the HRC..

    ...who was in the country before the HRC was set up and had some employment history.
    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    All were quickly dropped. Then lads were laughing at the thoughts of welfare giving out cars. Turns out the unemployed can get a grant for a taxi and the recipient can keep their BTWA for three years. That was quickly dropped too. Surprise, surprise! .

    You can get a grant of 1,000 Euro.


  • #105
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    reprise wrote: »
    Who shot who in the what now?

    You keep referring to some price we're paying. What is it?


  • #106
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Nodin wrote: »
    You keep referring to some price we're paying. What is it?

    Game on, how many times did I refer to this price?


  • #107
    Packrat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,095 ✭✭✭Packrat


    My question: Why do people drive themselves mad entertaining or responding to this fcuking troll?


  • #108
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    Packrat wrote: »
    My question: Why do people drive themselves mad entertaining or responding to this fcuking troll?
    :D

    I can almost picture the sweat breaking out on his forehead as he hovers over his favourite little red triangle......


  • #109
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Personally I would be more concerned about finding illegals and send them packing.

    60,000 seems a lot for a small country though, if we were to compare with say the US it would be a couple of million but at least they went through the proper channels to become citizens.

    Also within the EU is controled migration such a bad thing?

    Realistically it's the countries in Western Europe that people migrate to so let every country have a set quota of people allowed in based on the size of the country, the quota to be reviewed on a yearly basis.

    Better than the free for all that currently exists.


  • #110
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Nodin wrote: »
    An amount towards certain items can be received. They do not give out free prams.

    They give out cash for the purchase of prams. To roughly ten thousand parents a year.

    Nodin wrote: »
    ...who was in the country before the HRC was set up and had some employment history.

    He was illegally in the country. He was illegally working. He was declared habitually resident in 2010.

    Nodin wrote: »
    You can get a grant of 1,000 Euro.

    A grant of a thousand euro and three years worth of Back to Work Allowance. Which works out at *€25,398.40 in total over the three years for a married man. It would be cheaper to buy them the motor. Not to mention that if someone is unemployed for twelve months, new to the country; then there is a high chance that they are in receipt of rent allowance too.

    *On the BTWA they get 75% of their welfare for year 1, 50% for year 2 and 25% for year 3. Welfare is €188 and 124.80 for every other qualified adult. Works out at €24,398.40 plus the grand for the grant.


  • #111
    DeadHand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    Nodin wrote: »
    You keep referring to some price we're paying. What is it?

    The cultural, economical and social price we as a nation will be forced to pay if we are continued to be seen, in terms of immigration, as a doormat by
    the rest of the world.

    You're obviously an intelligent person... Can you honestly be blind to the misery untrammeled immigration has already wrought on Europe?


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  • #112
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    DeadHand wrote: »
    The cultural, economical and social price we as a nation will be forced to pay if we are continued to be seen, in terms of immigration, as a doormat by
    the rest of the world.

    We have perhaps one of the lowest acceptance rates of asylum seekers of any state in Western Europe.
    DeadHand wrote: »
    You're obviously an intelligent person... Can you honestly be blind to the misery untrammeled immigration has already wrought on Europe?

    While I'm sure there are problems, I'd be blind in both eyes to anything that answers to that sort of descriptive language, yes.


  • #113
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Packrat wrote: »
    My question: Why do people drive themselves mad entertaining or responding to this fcuking troll?

    reprise wrote: »
    :D

    I can almost picture the sweat breaking out on his forehead as he hovers over his favourite little red triangle......

    MOD

    Give it a rest


  • #114
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    reprise wrote: »
    Game on, how many times did I refer to this price?

    Twice - once implied

    "Citizenship was most likely the outcome of the anchor baby from the good old days that we are paying for now. "
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93013103&postcount=93

    and again outright, here

    "No, were discussing yet another aspect of immigration we continue to make a balls of and the price we continue to pay. "
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93013601&postcount=99

    What "price" is it we are paying?


  • #115
    DeadHand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    Nodin wrote: »
    While I'm sure there are problems, I'd be blind in both eyes to anything that answers to that sort of descriptive language, yes.

    You just can't accept the extent of the problem.

    The recent, wild popularity of anti-immigration politics all over Europe has not been a coincidence and cannot be attributed solely to simple bigotry. Nations are deeply unhappy with the toll the failed dogma of multi culturism has taken on their societies.


  • #116
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    DeadHand wrote: »
    You just can't accept the extent of the problem.

    The recent, wild popularity of anti-immigration politics all over Europe has not been a coincidence and cannot be attributed solely to simple bigotry. Nations are deeply unhappy with the toll the failed dogma of multi culturism has taken on their societies.

    Well most immigration within Western Europe has been from other European countries so I'm not to sure what "multi culturism" has to do with anything.


  • #117
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    NewYork1979 wrote: »
    I'm currently expecting. On the public system, great care etc. I had an appointment this week and I would say at least 1/3 of the waiting room were foreign nationals. I'm far from racist but I do believe in fairness. There were two women there, one with three small children and the other with two and both obviously expecting.

    Maybe I am wrong but I'd hazard a guess these ladies haven't built up a huge stamp, I've 17 years of a stamp. We are all treated the same which I guess is as it should be however where do we draw the line as a country. Kinda hard to stomach sometimes, I waited a long time to afford my first child.

    I'm reminded of this

    http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/09/24/whole-waiting-room-enjoying-african-womans-phone-call/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #118
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well most immigration within Western Europe has been from other European countries so I'm not to sure what "multi culturism" has to do with anything.

    The ironic thing is that people that have a soft or hard left ideology always defend immigration even when the system itself is scammed repeatedly whereby any valid questions on ripping the system off is downplayed and trivialised. Sure everyone is a racist, right.

    Of course the biggest irony is the fact that left leaning parties vouch for such a open and free system whereby the 'natives' (for use of a better word) who are either skilled or semi-skilled have to put up with more competition for work and jobs, driving down wages. In other words the existing resident working class suffer most from high immigration and business/corporations benefit most, as well of course the immigrant themselves.

    Yet people who pro-port to represent the 'working man' like Sinn Fein or Labour ideologically cannot oppose stronger immigration laws because, well that would align themselves with the 'right' and we cant have that now can we, even if their own constituents may benefit from such legislation. So in essence screw the working class man (even though they pontificate other wise), blame the rich or countless other lefty calling cards instead and under no circumstances draw attention to the underlying hypocrisy.


  • #119
    NewYork1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭NewYork1979


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I'm reminded of this



    I don't appreciate the inference of your email.

    Funny how you can't say a word against foreign nationals even when there was nothing racist in my post, did I say what the hell are they all doing here etc etc.

    It is about fairness, do I expect to go to another country and get everything for free, no I don't. My point is that as a country when do we draw the line so we are providing adequate care for our own people.


  • #120
    NewYork1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭NewYork1979


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I'm reminded of this



    I don't appreciate the inference of your post.

    Funny how you can't say a word against foreign nationals even when there was nothing racist in my post, did I say what the hell are they all doing here etc etc.

    It is about fairness, do I expect to go to another country and get everything for free, no I don't. My point is that as a country when do we draw the line so we are providing adequate care for our own people.


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  • #121
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    NewYork1979 wrote: »
    I don't appreciate the inference of your email.

    Funny how you can't say a word against foreign nationals even when there was nothing racist in my post, did I say what the hell are they all doing here etc etc.

    It is about fairness, do I expect to go to another country and get everything for free, no I don't. My point is that as a country when do we draw the line so we are providing adequate care for our own people.

    How do you know they were getting anything for "free"?


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