EU states can refuse benefits to migrants, top court rules

Nodin · 11-11-2014 07:48PM

reprise wrote: »

That's not the point he was making. He contradicted your fallacy.

Dragging in the supplementary paymen is in itself a fallacy. Nobody is living off it or travelling to claim it.

Gatling · 11-11-2014 07:49PM

Nodin wrote: »

A supplementary welfare payment is a one off, and they usually want receipts. You can't live off it.

It's not a one off at all you get Swp while a claim is been processed you can easily live off it

Holsten · 11-11-2014 07:50PM

Gatling wrote: »

Now if your arrive and go in to direct provision your get fed .housed ( in a center) clothed .free transport some places run regular shuttle buses.and of you have kids they get buggies .

Habitual residence isn't even a rule more a guide line there's no even legislation on it to the best of my knowledge .

Wonder will they use this ruling to exclude people from social housing

Those direct provision places are horrible places to live, they are basically prisons.

Remember you're not even legally allowed to work if you're in direct provision.

reprise · 11-11-2014 07:51PM

Nodin wrote: »

Dragging in the supplementary paymen is in itself a fallacy. Nobody is living off it or travelling to claim it.

How do you know?

How stringent is the proof required to prove one has worked or lived here?
even for the laughable month required?

Nodin · 11-11-2014 07:51PM

Gatling wrote: »

Now if your (.........)they get buggies .

Asylum seekers are a different issue. As ever I suggest that if you don't like the notion of asylum, you start a campaign to have the state withdraw from that section of the Geneva conventions.

RobYourBuilder · 11-11-2014 07:53PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yup and they just leave them at bus stops because you know they will just be given a new one. Although why would they be getting the bus with the high life they are living surely they get taxis everywhere.

What are you on about? Do you think that I am making this up? Minister Burton released the breakdown of Special Needs Payments for 2011 and 2012 sometime last year. In 2011, 10,942 got cheques for prams. In 2012, 9,413 did so.

People get free prams. It's a statement of fact.

Nodin · 11-11-2014 07:53PM

Gatling wrote: »

It's not a one off at all you get Swp while a claim is been processed you can easily live off it

I was confusing it with another payment.

However you have to satisfy habitual residency for the one you're on about.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/supplementary_welfare_allow.html

reprise · 11-11-2014 07:55PM

Holsten wrote: »

Those direct provision places are horrible places to live, they are basically prisons.

I suspect the inmates of Mountjoy and other such holiday camps might disagree.

Holsten wrote: »

Remember you're not even legally allowed to work if you're in direct provision.

There are no citizens of EU states in direct provision.

Gatling · 11-11-2014 07:55PM

Nodin wrote: »

I was confusing it with another payment.

Yes indeed .

RobYourBuilder · 11-11-2014 07:57PM

Holsten wrote: »

Those direct provision places are horrible places to live, they are basically prisons.

Remember you're not even legally allowed to work if you're in direct provision.

Which ones? The largest one in the state, Mosney, has gyms, computer rooms, teaching rooms,etc. and the residents live in apartment like accommodation with all mod cons. Looked pretty sweet, tbh. Granted, some of the others are kips. It's a mixed bag.

TV3 recently did a feature on life as an asylum seeker in such places. It's available to watch on their website. Give it a whirl.

reprise · 11-11-2014 07:57PM

Gatling wrote: »

Yes indeed .

I'm impressed he can keep up with them all, and then pretend they don't exist.

Holsten · 11-11-2014 08:00PM

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Which ones? The largest one in the state, Mosney, has gyms, computer rooms, teaching rooms,etc. and the residents live in apartment like accommodation with all mod cons. Looked pretty sweet, tbh. Granted, some of the others are kips. It's a mixed bag.

TV3 recently did a feature on life as an asylum seeker in such places. It's available to watch on their website. Give it a whirl.

Lissywollen Direct Provision Centre in Athlone
Ashbourne House Hotel direct provision centre, Cork.
The Kinsale Road Asylum Centre, Co Cork.

Just a few with a quick search.

I'll check that out.

reprise · 11-11-2014 08:03PM

Holsten wrote: »

Lissywollen Direct Provision Centre in Athlone
Ashbourne House Hotel direct provision centre, Cork.
The Kinsale Road Asylum Centre, Co Cork.

Just a few with a quick search.

I'll check that out.

Check out the nationalities of the "prisoners" while you are at it.

Galwayguy35 · 11-11-2014 08:04PM

drumswan wrote: »

But you need two years PRSI contributions to claim benefits here...

So what are the Roma living on then?

Frank O. Pinion · 11-11-2014 08:32PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So what are the Roma living on then?

Your tears?

Galwayguy35 · 11-11-2014 09:03PM

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

Your tears?

Wow Frank your debating skills astound me.

reprise · 11-11-2014 09:04PM

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

Your tears?

If only, don't need bailouts or new taxes to fund them.

IsaacWunder · 11-11-2014 09:06PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So what are the Roma living on then?

Self employed (beggars).

conorh91 · 11-11-2014 09:09PM

Chunners wrote: »

About bloody time, this **** of arriving at a countries doorstep and expecting them to support you has gone on way to long now.

It's not "about time". The ECJ is merely re-stating a rule that has already been in existence, and confirming that the rule is not contrary to the laws of the European Union.

Ireland, the UK and Germany have always been unusual in granting allowances to new arrivals from within the EU, but that's a policy issue for the respective governments. It's our choice to be generous with welfare.

Holsten wrote: »

Those direct provision places are horrible places to live, they are basically prisons.

No they are not. Residents are free to come and go, to associate among themselves, and to leave the system.

doc11 · 11-11-2014 09:16PM

drumswan wrote: »

But you need two years PRSI contributions to claim benefits here...

one prsi contribution in ireland and based on you non irish social insurance you can claim irish benefits and after they run out claim jobseekers allowance as you can then can settle the HRC

enricoh · 11-11-2014 09:23PM

i saw the programme on channel 5 a while ago on the roma coming to the uk for benefits.
they were sent over by the clan boss, set up for a day collecting scrap- therefore self employed n could claim child allowance for kids back in romania.
then on to get rigged up for jobseekers, missus over for housing etc.

they were an asset to any country them lads! with a budget deficit of 10 billion ia year ireland can afford to take in loads more

conorhal · 11-11-2014 10:17PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yup and they just leave them at bus stops because you know they will just be given a new one. Although why would they be getting the bus with the high life they are living surely they get taxis everywhere.

I assume you mean driving them.

Never mind buggies, they get free cars. My folks neighbour was selling his and was reluctant to accept a cheque from the social welfare for the car, he rang them about it and was told that the cheque was genuine and he was as racist as the passengers on the bus that had caused the poor man such distress that the social had to buy him a car.

Nodin · 11-11-2014 10:20PM

conorhal wrote: »

I assume you mean driving them.

Never mind buggies, they get free cars. My folks neighbour was selling his and was reluctant to accept a cheque from the social welfare for the car, he rang them about it and was told that the cheque was genuine and he was as racist as the passengers on the bus that had caused the poor man such distress that the social had to buy him a car.

Wow. Never heard that one before. Not once.

Nomis21 · 11-11-2014 10:24PM

drumswan wrote: »

But you need two years PRSI contributions to claim benefits here...

Thats the condition for JA. The only condition AFAIK for Supplementary Welfare is having worked here for ANY length of time.

Frank O. Pinion · 11-11-2014 10:33PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Wow Frank your debating skills astound me.

You're the one asking intelligent "debate" questions, like "So what are the Roma living on then?"

Maybe the Roma are living on your tears? Have long have you been studying them? Is there any raw footage available? This is a serious debate, damn it.

RobYourBuilder · 11-11-2014 10:39PM

Joan Burton wrote:

The Department does not operate a scheme that provides lump sums towards the set up of taxi businesses or the purchase of taxi licences. The Deputy may wish to note that the Department operates a number of schemes which are designed to encourage people who are dependent on certain social welfare payments to pursue self employment opportunities. These opportunities can include the setting up of a taxi business.

The back to work enterprise allowance (BTWEA) allows a person who has been unemployed for over 12 months to retain a reducing proportion of their qualifying social welfare payment over two years on entering employment or self-employment. The short term enterprise allowance (STEA) allows a person who qualifies for jobseekers’ benefit payment to retain this payment for the duration of their job seekers entitlement if they take up a self-employment opportunity. For both schemes the applicant must set up business for the purpose of self-employment. The business venture has to be approved by one of the local development companies or one of this Department’s job facilitators.The business venture must be deemed to be viable and sustainable and must not involve displacement of existing business in the same industry or sector. In assessing viability, cognisance is taken of the demand for, and supply of, the particular service at local level.

Those approved under either back to work schemes may also avail of additional financial support from the technical assistance and training scheme (TATS). Under this scheme a person may qualify for a grant up to a maximum of €1,000 to offset the cost of certain start-up expenses such as training in the areas of business start-up, bookkeeping and accounts, taxation, preparation of business plans, marketing, public liability insurance, literacy and computer training or assistance with the purchase of small items of equipment and tools.

The free cars thing is a myth but a lot of Africans did get a grant and Back to Work Allowance after the IBC Scheme of 2005 to help them become taxi drivers. This scheme is open to anyone who is unemployed for twelve months.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2012-09-18a.1702

Cee-Jay-Cee · 12-11-2014 01:53AM

I hope it can be applied retrospectively as we have many many people who contribute nothing to society and are here purely for our generous benefits.

duckcfc · 12-11-2014 02:00AM

drumswan wrote: »

But you need two years PRSI contributions to claim benefits here...

2 years?

Annasopra · 12-11-2014 06:07AM

looking_around wrote: »

actually I know someone, who's pram was simply dirty(very very much so) and she managed to claim for a new one rather than ever clean the pram.

now you can say whatever you like, but this woman has never worked a day in her life, probably never will. She doesn't see the point.

I'm not saying she lives the high life, but then again, probably would if she knew how to manage her money.

People on welfare should have to take money management courses.

I was doing pretty darn well, renting a one bedroom flat, while on disability. (and no, don't give me crap she has a child, she's paying council rates. )

Yeah yeah... she got a mobile phone and a car too...

Annasopra · 12-11-2014 06:15AM

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

The free cars thing is a myth but a lot of Africans did get a grant and Back to Work Allowance after the IBC Scheme of 2005 to help them become taxi drivers. This scheme is open to anyone who is unemployed for twelve months.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2012-09-18a.1702

So what? Whats the problem with Africans getting that grant?

EU states can refuse benefits to migrants, top court rules

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