Buying a TT bike - does it need to be UCI legal

richieg · 10-11-2014 09:06AM #1

Thinking bout buying a TT bike for club TT racing and TTs on 2 day road races. Does it need to be UCI legal for these events?
If not are there any events in Ireland where I would need to have a UCI legal bike to race?

Thinking about the Canyon Speedmax AL.

RobFowl · 10-11-2014 09:34AM

All TT's run under the auspices of CI need UCI legal bikes.
There are checks done at many if not all races.

sconhome · 10-11-2014 10:57AM

AFAIK a lot of the newer triathlon TT bikes are not UCI legal so be sure of what you are looking at. Worth reading up on the spec requirements instead of falling foul of a regulation.

Beasty · 10-11-2014 12:04PM

Thought the newer models that are UCI legal often have a small sticker to that effect. Some (like the Cervelo P5) have a UCI legal version and a triathlon version

slow · 10-11-2014 01:48PM

The UCI jig is only produced at UCI events, like the National Championships or if the Rás had a TT. And sometimes not even at Championships - no checks at Vets or Junior National Championships in 2013 or 2014.

Beasty · 10-11-2014 02:24PM

slow wrote: »

The UCI jig is only produced at UCI events, like the National Championships or if the Rás had a TT. And sometimes not even at Championships - no checks at Vets or Junior National Championships in 2013 or 2014.

It can be produced at any CI event. Just because it hasn't been produced at certain events in the past does not mean it can't and won't be in the future. It's a bit like drugs testing - never seen it at any domestic event until earlier this year when they turned up to Sundrive for the International GP. Likewise they can turn up to any CI event without warning, and that's part of their modus operandi. Of course a dodgy bike is probably only likely to get it thrown out of the competition, or like one poster experienced earlier in the year a lot of hassle to sort things out. The onus is completely on the rider to ensure their bike is UCI legal when they turn up though.

Lusk_Doyle · 10-11-2014 03:10PM

Beasty wrote: »

or like one poster experienced earlier in the year a lot of hassle to sort things out. The onus is completely on the rider to ensure their bike is UCI legal when they turn up though.

Yes indeed! Know the rule on measurements is my advice following my farcical experience at the nationals earlier this year.

lennymc · 11-11-2014 01:18PM

I bought a TT bike earlier in the year, and as far as I can tell it is uci legal (with the seat set all the way back) due to the morphological exemption on seat position. What is the best way of checking the dimensions (apart from building a rig). Felt say the bike should be TT legal.

Beasty · 11-11-2014 01:26PM

If they say it should be then it will be assuming it's adjusted to within the limits

I've had one of my bikes checked a few times anyway, but for TT/pursuit I check the following to make sure nothing has slipped out of place:

Front of saddle 5cm behind centre of BB - use a plumb line for that
Saddle level or pretty close (<3% deviation either way IIRC) - put a flat piece of wood on the saddle and an electronic level gauge on top of that
Front of bars 80cm in front of BB (strictly 75cm, but they give another 5cm under the morphological test which I can get through anyway - think they don't even bother testing for those extra 5cm nowadays). Knowing my saddle is set back by pretty much the required 5cm, I usually just put a measure between the front of the saddle and the bars

If they are sorted I know I'm legal

Beasty · 11-11-2014 01:30PM

There is also a test about the difference in height between arm rests and bars that I think was only introduced this year. Think it's something like a maximum of 10cm, but my bars are nowhere near that

lennymc · 11-11-2014 01:34PM

Cheers Beasty! I have mine set up (as far as I can tell) within the 10cm rule referenced above, and with the nose of the saddle in line with the centre of the BB, but the tips of the shifters at 75 cm from the bb centre line. Never checked the level of the saddle. I'll try the plumb line and the level and see how legal it is.

slow · 11-11-2014 01:38PM

Beasty wrote: »

If they say it should be then it will be assuming it's adjusted to within the limits

I've had one of my bikes checked a few times anyway, but for TT/pursuit I check the following to make sure nothing has slipped out of place:

Front of saddle 5cm behind centre of BB - use a plumb line for that
Saddle level or pretty close (<3% deviation either way IIRC) - put a flat piece of wood on the saddle and an electronic level gauge on top of that
Front of bars 80cm in front of BB (strictly 75cm, but they give another 5cm under the morphological test which I can get through anyway - think they don't even bother testing for those extra 5cm nowadays). Knowing my saddle is set back by pretty much the required 5cm, I usually just put a measure between the front of the saddle and the bars

If they are sorted I know I'm legal

Jens Voigt and Cancellara were hanging out of a beam to stretch their bodies in an (unsuccessful) attempt to appear taller for the morphological exemption at that German stage race where Bennett won a stage. An Irish rider's bike looked to be about to fail on the UCI jig in Ponferrada. They rechecked it on the second jig and it passed. A Greek rider failed to reach the height test on the line in the European TT champs in Nyon and wasn't allowed to start. You mightn't have problems at 9am on Easter Sunday in Gorey, but it's a different story further up the food chain.

JK.BMC · 11-11-2014 02:18PM

slow wrote: »

Jens Voigt and Cancellara were hanging out of a beam to stretch their bodies in an (unsuccessful) attempt to appear taller for the morphological exemption at that German stage race where Bennett won a stage. An Irish rider's bike looked to be about to fail on the UCI jig in Ponferrada. They rechecked it on the second jig and it passed. A Greek rider failed to reach the height test on the line in the European TT champs in Nyon and wasn't allowed to start. You mightn't have problems at 9am on Easter Sunday in Gorey, but it's a different story further up the food chain.

I have experienced problems at 9am in Gorey alright; but not of the type described above..... especially the year the clocks went back an hour and it was minus 5 degrees

Beasty · 11-11-2014 03:41PM

slow wrote: »

You mightn't have problems at 9am on Easter Sunday in Gorey, but it's a different story further up the food chain.

TBH the only times I've ever had my bikes checked has been at World Championships:pac::pac::pac:

GMCI · 11-11-2014 08:21PM

UCI stickers appear on all approved makes and models from 1st January 2013.
This means the frame does not have to be checked for 3:1 ratio compliance, but that doesn't stop checks for compliance having to be carried out on bars.

The 10cm check of the arm rests is in relation to the shifters on the end of the bar extensions in their most upward and downward position not being outside of this buffer.

Morphological tests are now generally gone. The bike is what is checked, not the person. If the saddle is in line with the bottom bracket the distance from bottom bracket out to the tip of the bar extensions including gear levers is 75cm (for the smaller folk like Lennymc)
If the saddle is 5cm or more behind the bottom bracket, the bar extensions including gear levers can go up to 80cm. (For the taller folk).

The only check of a rider is if a rider is 190cm or more (bare footed). On passing this the bar extensions including gear levers can then be increased to 85cm from the centre bottom bracket.

Other checks include:
Saddle is horizontal (within a 3degree tolerance)
Bottles cannot be integrated into the frame and must have a cross section between 4-10cm (so none of those bontrager flat bottles) and capable of holding between 400-800ml of fluid.(must be fluid in the bottle for hydration)
Minimum weight is 6.8kg.

International track GP was checked as it was under UCI rules. There is nothing stopping CI checking at any of the events so better to not waste money on non compliant bikes just in case. Each year there are issues at events where competitors have purchased expensive bike from triathlon shops, not knowing the rules surrounding them.

Hi Ho · 11-11-2014 08:53PM

"If the saddle is in line with the bottom bracket the distance from bottom bracket out to the tip of the bar extensions including gear levers is 75cm (for the smaller folk like Lennymc)
If the saddle is 5cm or more behind the bottom bracket, the bar extensions including gear levers can go up to 80cm. (For the taller folk)."

Thanks for all the input but I'm confused by above. Does this mean that the saddle can be less than 5cm back from BB if there is a trade off with the bars? Are the 75/80 figures max. or min?

I've found this method much easier than the plumb line for measuring saddle setback fro BB.
1) Put the back wheel against a wall that properly vertical
2) measure distance from wall to tip of saddle
3) measure distance to centre of BB
4) subtract

Beasty · 11-11-2014 09:15PM

Hi Ho wrote: »

Thanks for all the input but I'm confused by above. Does this mean that the saddle can be less than 5cm back from BB if there is a trade off with the bars? Are the 75/80 figures max. or min?

The figures are the maximum. There is no trade off - 5cm back is one measure (although not applicable for track sprinting I think!) and 75/80cm is another

I am pretty sure I havve read somewhere that they will not bother with the morphological test any more giving everyone the 80cm though. I'm equally sure it only changed this year.

Beasty · 11-11-2014 09:25PM

Beasty wrote: »

I am pretty sure I havve read somewhere that they will not bother with the morphological test any more giving everyone the 80cm though. I'm equally sure it only changed this year.

Fpound a report from last December here

• For morphological reasons a rider is allowed either to move the tip of the saddle forwards to the vertical plane of the bottom bracket, or to position handlebar extensions forwards up to a maximum of 80cm in front of the centre of the bottom bracket.
• Morphological tests will no longer be necessary for exemptions in either of these two cases.

GMCI · 11-11-2014 09:27PM

Beasty wrote: »

The figures are the maximum. There is no trade off - 5cm back is one measure (although not applicable for track sprinting I think!) and 75/80cm is another

I am pretty sure I havve read somewhere that they will not bother with the morphological test any more giving everyone the 80cm though. I'm equally sure it only changed this year.

Figures are the maximum. It is either one or the other in relation to the saddle vs the handlebars. Only one adjustment can be made. Either the saddle comes forward to the BB or the bars are extended to 80cm.
Though if you think about it, because it is measured to the tip of the gear lever, it can favour electronic gears as the gear lever can be replaced by bar extension.

Beasty you are right for Track Sprinting, Flying 200.

It did only change in April this year.

Beasty · 11-11-2014 09:48PM

Actually this discussion reminds me of an issue one of the Irish guy had at the World Track Masters last year. It was the first time he had ever taken part in such an event and the first time he had to put his bike in the measuring jig

Unfortunately his saddle was too far forward and there was no way it could be adjusted to get within the limit. Fortunately I had done my pursuit and had an Adamo saddle I could lend him which just got him within the limit. Otherwise his trip to Manchester would have been pretty much wasted. It's definitely worth checking before heading off to an event!

Hi Ho · 11-11-2014 10:19PM

Am I correct in thinking that the minimum saddle length is 24 cm but I can't do a DIY trimming job on the surplus 4cm on my saddle - thant would be an illegal modification?

GMCI · 11-11-2014 10:32PM

Hi Ho wrote: »

Am I correct in thinking that the minimum saddle length is 24 cm but I can't do a DIY trimming job on the surplus 4cm on my saddle - thant would be an illegal modification?

Correct.

RobFowl · 11-11-2014 10:32PM

Knock yourselves out....

Lusk_Doyle · 17-11-2014 11:05PM

I was 1cm under the height to get the extra leniency on the bike setup which was annoying. I tried to go up on my toes when I was being measured but he copped it!

lennymc · 18-11-2014 12:21PM

some info on CI page

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/cycling-news-item/tt-bike-specifications-/256

Buying a TT bike - does it need to be UCI legal

Comments