Negotiating a fare with a taxi driver who then goes mental!

ongarboy · 07-11-2014 11:47PM #1

What are people's thoughts on negotiating a fare with a taxi driver before you set off on your journey? Do taxi drivers generally mind or what is the ettiquette?

I hailed a taxi on the Dublin quays last night at about 2am and got in to go home. All I had on me was €25 which in 10 years of getting taxis home dozens of times a year always covers the fare minus a handful of times when it was more expensive by 1 or 2 euro. The weather was atrocious so I didn't want to walk to an ATM to get more cash. Anyway, before we set off I asked the driver that all I have is €25 and will that cover the fare?

Next thing, he starts screaming at me asking "Am I dictating what the fare is??" and "Who did I think I was deciding how much he should earn?" and that he was sick and tired of passengers deciding how much they should pay. I told him to calm down and that I was stunned by his outburst. I explained what I typed above about how €25 always covered the journey in 99% of times I've taken it and just wanted to make sure it would be enough so that we wouldn't have a problem when we arrived at my place (miles from an ATM). He wouldn't listen and got increasingly obnoxious and continued roaring so I left the car and told him he was the worst taxi driver I had ever come across in my 20 years of hailing taxis and to go f**k himself (I lost it at this stage). I took his cab number and told him through the window that I would be reporting him to the Taxi Ombudsman for his appalling treatment. He shouted back that the Ombudsman and Union would support him!!

I told the next taxi driver what happened and he couldn't believe that your man could be that way and told me to just forget about him. I couldn't really be bothered taking this further officially at this stage now but interested in other posters thoughts on this. I'm almost afraid to negotiate fares again after that ordeal. Any taxi drivers out there who think such negotiation is reasonable? I was not trying to get a major discount or anything. Ironically, my fare with the second guy was only €22 but I gave him the full €25 as he was a decent guy!

Spook_ie · 08-11-2014 07:37AM

ongarboy wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on negotiating a fare with a taxi driver before you set off on your journey? Do taxi drivers generally mind or what is the ettiquette?

I hailed a taxi on the Dublin quays last night at about 2am and got in to go home. All I had on me was €25 which in 10 years of getting taxis home dozens of times a year always covers the fare minus a handful of times when it was more expensive by 1 or 2 euro. The weather was atrocious so I didn't want to walk to an ATM to get more cash. Anyway, before we set off I asked the driver that all I have is €25 and will that cover the fare?

Next thing, he starts screaming at me asking "Am I dictating what the fare is??" and "Who did I think I was deciding how much he should earn?" and that he was sick and tired of passengers deciding how much they should pay. I told him to calm down and that I was stunned by his outburst. I explained what I typed above about how €25 always covered the journey in 99% of times I've taken it and just wanted to make sure it would be enough so that we wouldn't have a problem when we arrived at my place (miles from an ATM). He wouldn't listen and got increasingly obnoxious and continued roaring so I left the car and told him he was the worst taxi driver I had ever come across in my 20 years of hailing taxis and to go f**k himself (I lost it at this stage). I took his cab number and told him through the window that I would be reporting him to the Taxi Ombudsman for his appalling treatment. He shouted back that the Ombudsman and Union would support him!!

I told the next taxi driver what happened and he couldn't believe that your man could be that way and told me to just forget about him. I couldn't really be bothered taking this further officially at this stage now but interested in other posters thoughts on this. I'm almost afraid to negotiate fares again after that ordeal. Any taxi drivers out there who think such negotiation is reasonable? I was not trying to get a major discount or anything. Ironically, my fare with the second guy was only €22 but I gave him the full €25 as he was a decent guy!

There is no etiquette in trying to get a cab for less than the metered fare, at the end of the day the driver is entitled to the full metered fare, if he so desires. Just like the person serving you the beer in the pub would expect to get the asking price rather than an offer

You would probably have met a less hostile reaction if the conversation went something like...

"I need to go to Ongar, I've €25 if it's likely to be more I need to go to an ATM on the way"

That puts the onus on the driver to either accept the €25 or to take you via an ATM to pick up a fiver or whatever.

Losty Dublin · 08-11-2014 11:24AM

ongarboy wrote: »

He wouldn't listen and got increasingly obnoxious and continued roaring so I left the car and told him he was the worst taxi driver I had ever come across in my 20 years of hailing taxis and to go f**k himself (I lost it at this stage). I took his cab number and told him through the window that I would be reporting him to the Taxi Ombudsman for his appalling treatment. He shouted back that the Ombudsman and Union would support him!!

Taxi's don't have to accept a set fare so if he doesn't want to then it's the meter or nothing. If a driver agrees one, here isn't any rule with a set fare other than you and the driver signing a waiver to the effect that you forego the metered fare in lieu of what the agreement says. Try doing that at 4AM and see how it works out

In relation to the shouting, IMO it wasn't on to have abused him in this manner, and ultimately because you didn't want to draw out an extra few € from an ATM just in case. Bear it in mind for the future, please.

Something I found as I came to the end of my time taxi-ing was the fare haggling passenger. While most wanted the piece of mind to know that the trip home would be €X and it's entirely understandable there were a few people who wanted to take the piss. I was asked one night to bring a guy from town to Leixlip for €10; when I told him politely that most of his drinks that night cost more and as he got wetter and wetter, his asking price suddenly went up to a more accurate €30

Another evening, a passenger decided to haggle me for 55 cent of a metered €5.55 :rolleyes:

Mr.Frame · 08-11-2014 12:53PM

ongarboy wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on negotiating a fare with a taxi driver before you set off on your journey? Do taxi drivers generally mind or what is the ettiquette?

I hailed a taxi on the Dublin quays last night at about 2am and got in to go home. All I had on me was €25 which in 10 years of getting taxis home dozens of times a year always covers the fare minus a handful of times when it was more expensive by 1 or 2 euro. The weather was atrocious so I didn't want to walk to an ATM to get more cash. Anyway, before we set off I asked the driver that all I have is €25 and will that cover the fare?

Next thing, he starts screaming at me asking "Am I dictating what the fare is??" and "Who did I think I was deciding how much he should earn?" and that he was sick and tired of passengers deciding how much they should pay. I told him to calm down and that I was stunned by his outburst. I explained what I typed above about how €25 always covered the journey in 99% of times I've taken it and just wanted to make sure it would be enough so that we wouldn't have a problem when we arrived at my place (miles from an ATM). He wouldn't listen and got increasingly obnoxious and continued roaring so I left the car and told him he was the worst taxi driver I had ever come across in my 20 years of hailing taxis and to go f**k himself (I lost it at this stage). I took his cab number and told him through the window that I would be reporting him to the Taxi Ombudsman for his appalling treatment. He shouted back that the Ombudsman and Union would support him!!

I told the next taxi driver what happened and he couldn't believe that your man could be that way and told me to just forget about him. I couldn't really be bothered taking this further officially at this stage now but interested in other posters thoughts on this. I'm almost afraid to negotiate fares again after that ordeal. Any taxi drivers out there who think such negotiation is reasonable? I was not trying to get a major discount or anything. Ironically, my fare with the second guy was only €22 but I gave him the full €25 as he was a decent guy!

Why do people think it's ok to "haggle" with a taxi driver?
You go into a bar and the price of a pint is 5.50 lets say, you don't haggle you just pay, if you had 5.10 you still wont get your pint as its 5.50.
You go to River Island and a pair of jeans is 60 quid YOU PAY the 60.

Whilst the drivers reaction MAY have been a little over the top, drivers have bills to pay ect ect and he may have been having a bad night.

It's extremely difficult out there for drivers at the moment and has been for a number of years.
So for someone who come along after spending a night out paying money for drinks/nightclub or whatever and then "chance his arm " in haggling is not on.

Yes u will have people come on here saying the metered fare is the maximum price.BUT why should a driver be expected to give a discount,why do people think its ok to try it on?
You don't do it in your local pub ,shop or restaurant.

Del2005 · 08-11-2014 01:13PM

Unless you where in the middle of nowhere getting into the taxi and not passing a single big town there would be an ATM somewhere along the route. The taxi driver was a bit OTT but with the huge over supply of taxis he might not have made much that evening and you where trying to reduce his wages, or more likely he might not have even covered operating costs. Still OTT reaction but as others have said all he sees is someone who's paid for over priced alcohol all night without question, or going to the cheaper pub, and now when they are going home they decided to start looking for discounts.

Then again like in all industries you've got good and bad operators, you unfortunately got into a bad one first time.

mikemac1 · 08-11-2014 01:30PM

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Why do people think it's ok to "haggle" with a taxi driver?

You're dealing with a self employed business man. Sure some of them proudly display their green full time signs.

The taximan haggles over the cost of a service, the price of tyres, their new car, the accountant fees and if the taximan isn't doing this that have money to burn.

They are big enough to deal with a request like the OP's though that negotiation blew up and should never end like that

Mr.Frame wrote: »

You go into a bar and the price of a pint is 5.50 lets say, you don't haggle you just pay, if you had 5.10 you still wont get your pint as its 5.50.

Bad example, nobody would try that

Mr.Frame wrote: »

You go to River Island and a pair of jeans is 60 quid YOU PAY the 60.

60 is a bit low but I was spending 105-110 in River Island I'd absolutely chance my arm would they accept 100. Might work, might not.

Same if I'm ringing around B n B's and they're quoting me 70 for a night. I'd be pushing for 50, might settle for 55, especially if it's a mid week, off peak. These days you can get a 3* hotel room on an internet deal for that so of course you'd haggle

It's just business, the OP's taximan acted like the OP was stealing food from their table. I doubt their next fare was for 22 euro, that's a very decent fare

240 Robert · 08-11-2014 01:51PM

If the taxi driver knew his job he would have had an idea that the 25e fare was enough.
We all have bad days but it is still no excuse to lose his temper and treat the op (all he did was to make sure there he had enough and stop an argument , not cause one) or any customer so badly.
It is incidences like this that destroy the good reputation of the taxi drivers.

Spook_ie · 08-11-2014 05:14PM

Have to totally disagree with the way people think they can HAIL a taxi down and then try to haggle a price, you'd probably get a far better response at a rank.

I have an intense dislike for people who do this ( Hailing me down to haggle ) as it's stopping me from geting to the people who would gladly pay the metered price to get out of the rain. I mean those of you that use Uber are willing to pay more when they price surge so you really shouldn't expect taxis to operate the reverse and give you a discount.

It's kind of like if you plan ahead and buy your beer at an off license or jeans on the net you'll get a better deal than if you do so in real time at the pub or the shop

hfallada · 08-11-2014 07:21PM

Well considering the taxi industry is deregulated and there is so many taxis in Dublin. A taxi driver might be happy to pick up a passenger for a little less than the meter price. Its a consumers market. Other than hailo or uber. Taxi drivers havent really adapted to the deregulated market at all. Unless its raining,there is amount of empty taxis on Friday and Saturday night.

If a consumer wants to try and get a better price, when there is logic. Go for it.eg the fact there is a serious amount of empty taxis but very few potential customers. But when someone tries to negotiate cheaper rent when there is no supply for housing in Dublin. They are wasting their time.

Tar.Aldarion · 08-11-2014 07:40PM

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Why do people think it's ok to "haggle" with a taxi driver?
You go into a bar and the price of a pint is 5.50 lets say, you don't haggle you just pay, if you had 5.10 you still wont get your pint as its 5.50.
You go to River Island and a pair of jeans is 60 quid YOU PAY the 60.

Whilst the drivers reaction MAY have been a little over the top, drivers have bills to pay ect ect and he may have been having a bad night.

It's extremely difficult out there for drivers at the moment and has been for a number of years.
So for someone who come along after spending a night out paying money for drinks/nightclub or whatever and then "chance his arm " in haggling is not on.

Yes u will have people come on here saying the metered fare is the maximum price.BUT why should a driver be expected to give a discount,why do people think its ok to try it on?
You don't do it in your local pub ,shop or restaurant.

Because a lot of taxi drivers can actually adjust the price if they want, a server in a restaurant can not. There are laws and regulations in place for haggling with taxi drivers, it's an official thing.

hmmm · 08-11-2014 09:46PM

The minute he started ranting at me I would have moved on to the next taxi in line, what did you stand there arguing with him for? He's self employed, if he wants to negotiate or not that's his prerogative, but as a customer (or potential customer) I would move on immediately if he starts giving me abuse.

dowlingm · 08-11-2014 10:24PM

If taxis committed to having working CC machines (and thereby having to report said income to Revenue) then they could simply say to the passenger "no problem bud, you can stick your card in my machine rather than the ATM"

Another idea might be some form of prepayment taxi credit, so you could prepay a specified sum (more than the minimum for the distance) before you head out which would then be accepted as a fixed fee when your cash is spent.

Having drunk people wandering the streets is a hazard and the civic authorities should be looking to get them home rather than leave them to wander because they can't get a lift.

mikemac1 · 08-11-2014 10:39PM

My college had a scheme that if you're caught without money at the end of the night you give the driver your student ID card.

Next day you leave the money into the student union and the taximan will come and collect and drop off the card.

A student needs their ID so they're not going to hand it out just to never bother paying a fare

It worked quite well in Galway, not sure did other colleges ever try it

Rubberchikken · 08-11-2014 10:44PM

Cant agree that its acceptable to haggle with a taxi driver re price.
They have a living to make too.

His response to the OP wasnt proper but maybe he'd had a bad night up to that point.

The only person responsible for getting a drunk home is the drunk.
If a person wants to drink til they're legless then maybe they should put some thoughtinto how they plan to get home before they start a session

hfallada · 08-11-2014 11:31PM

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Cant agree that its acceptable to haggle with a taxi driver re price.
They have a living to make too.

His response to the OP wasnt proper but maybe he'd had a bad night up to that point.

The only person responsible for getting a drunk home is the drunk.
If a person wants to drink til they're legless then maybe they should put some thoughtinto how they plan to get home before they start a session

So those everyone in a capitalistic society have to make a living. But those who adapt to changing conditions thrive and those that stick to the old way, eventually fail. If everyone did what everyone else did. No one who be wealthier than anyone else in the world. But some people do things differently and get rewarded with more money.

Taxis are about the only thing we use on a daily bases in Dublin that you cant pay with card. Even the buses have tried to make paying with cash more difficult and expensive. Taxi drivers should be encouraged to accept cards.

Icepick · 08-11-2014 11:37PM

OP din't want to haggle. He asked if 25 was enough and from his experience it should have been.

anncoates · 08-11-2014 11:37PM

Trying to haggle with taxis is embarrassing and delaying people from making their living. If you can afford to be out on the piss all night, you can pay the metered fare.

fsfg · 08-11-2014 11:58PM

I can't agree it's not acceptable.

The examples given were of products being sold in large chains by cashiers with no authority. People don't bother haggling with them as there chances of success are small. Taxi drivers don't sell products the sell a service- name me a service you don't haggle with (especially with a provider who is self employed).

Also I do not understand the comments about taking food off their table; they are putting it on it by using the service, if the offer is not profitable the taxi driver can refuse the job.

It none of the drivers business that the person may have spent a fortune drinking etc, its completely separate.

fsfg · 09-11-2014 12:00AM

anncoates wrote: »

Trying to haggle with taxis is embarrassing and delaying people from making their living. If you can afford to be out on the piss all night, you can pay the metered fare.

It's offering them business. Just because you can afford something does not mean you should pay it

foggy_lad · 09-11-2014 04:21AM

That driver should be reported for his behaviour, imagine if he spoke like that to tourists! He should also get himself out of the taxi business if it is turning him into such a pig.

doc11 · 09-11-2014 04:30AM

Forget about it.

cerastes · 09-11-2014 04:37AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

My college had a scheme that if you're caught without money at the end of the night you give the driver your student ID card.

Next day you leave the money into the student union and the taximan will come and collect and drop off the card.

A student needs their ID so they're not going to hand it out just to never bother paying a fare

It worked quite well in Galway, not sure did other colleges ever try it

That sounds like an awful lot of hassle for the taxi driver, they then have to make a second unpaid journey to the college and potentially pay parking because a person doens thave money on them, what also if the person wasnt present or didnt leave the money or the full amount? another journey?
tbh if I was a taxi driver, Id want that written down and I think Id need at least 50% extra for getting them out of bother when they had no money. But honestly, I wouldnt even go for it at all. Thats pretty much tough **** if you get caught out like that, if someone managed to lose or drink their taxi fare.

All it takes is one person to abuse that and its not a system that would work and that one person seems likely, maybe the person is scamming a free lift, and is leaving college, driver ends up out of pocket?
whats to stop the student saying the lost the card, get a replacement, might be cheaper than the fare or that the taxi driver found it and declined to hand it over if the fare wasnt there? what then?

Spook_ie · 09-11-2014 06:50AM

dowlingm wrote: »

If taxis committed to having working CC machines (and thereby having to report said income to Revenue) then they could simply say to the passenger "no problem bud, you can stick your card in my machine rather than the ATM"

Another idea might be some form of prepayment taxi credit, so you could prepay a specified sum (more than the minimum for the distance) before you head out which would then be accepted as a fixed fee when your cash is spent.

Having drunk people wandering the streets is a hazard and the civic authorities should be looking to get them home rather than leave them to wander because they can't get a lift.

You wouldn't have to report the revenue from CC machines to revenue, it's self assessed and doesn't require proof unless you're audited.

The reason why many taxi drivers don't use CC facilities is cost, it is only just recently that some 3rd party suppliers are beginning to supply chip n pin readers at a more reasonable cost, before their advent the banks were charging a flat rate per month plus the cost of the machine plus a transaction charge AND most crucially there is still the risk of not being paid by the bank, from AIB Merchant Services FAQ

Can I still be charged back if the transaction has been authorised?

Yes you can. An authorisation means that the funds were available at the time that the transaction was carried out and the card which was used had not been reported as lost or stolen. The payment is therefore not guaranteed.

You can now get for approx €80 - €100 a chip n pin reader and pay a transaction fee per transaction from one or two companies but as a night time taxi driver I would wonder just how many of you can remember your pin numbers when it comes to paying, believe me I've waited at ATMs for inebriated people to get cash and to say it's interesting to have to watch them is an understatement

Spook_ie · 09-11-2014 06:56AM

fsfg wrote: »

I can't agree it's not acceptable.

The examples given were of products being sold in large chains by cashiers with no authority. People don't bother haggling with them as there chances of success are small. Taxi drivers don't sell products the sell a service- name me a service you don't haggle with (especially with a provider who is self employed).

Also I do not understand the comments about taking food off their table; they are putting it on it by using the service, if the offer is not profitable the taxi driver can refuse the job.

It none of the drivers business that the person may have spent a fortune drinking etc, its completely separate.

And he did refuse it, he told yer man in no uncertain terms he was refusing it. Now it may well be that Ongarboy was the last straw of several asking for discounts or whatever but at the end of the day if you don't want to be told to F. Off then don't ask,

Do you go into the chippies and ask them, they are usually being run by the owner or the owner is nearby, answer no you don't because you know you wouldn't get any chips, If you can afford to pay the going rate in the pubs and chippies then you should expect to pay the going rate for your ride home

suicide_circus · 09-11-2014 10:42AM

Taxi driver in question lost out on a 25 euro fare due to being an ignorant bollox, good enough for him.

MadDog76 · 09-11-2014 11:54AM

Two points some people are missing on here from the OP's post ........... one, he was not haggling or looking for a discount, he was simply asking a reasonable question and two, the Taxi driver abused the OP not the other way round.

mickydoomsux · 09-11-2014 01:33PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

My college had a scheme that if you're caught without money at the end of the night you give the driver your student ID card.

Next day you leave the money into the student union and the taximan will come and collect and drop off the card.

A student needs their ID so they're not going to hand it out just to never bother paying a fare

It worked quite well in Galway, not sure did other colleges ever try it

Could the students not just act like the responsible grown adults that they are supposed to be and make sure they have enough money at the end of the night to get home?

This scheme just sounds like a lot of messing about for the driver

Spook_ie · 09-11-2014 04:02PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

Two points some people are missing on here from the OP's post ........... one, he was not haggling or looking for a discount, he was simply asking a reasonable question and two, the Taxi driver abused the OP not the other way round.

One point you are missing, the title of the thread reads

Negotiating a fare with a taxi driver who then goes mental!

NOT

Will €25 Cover a Trip

The other point I'd raise is it's seldom anyone asks me for a negotiated fare other than in some b/s tone of voice and trying to dictate how much they are going to pay NOT how much will I accept, not a good start for any kind of dialog.

The usual result is I tell them it's on the meter, and they either agree or get out, thing is though if they agree I'll tell them to get out anyway as I don't want people with an attitude in my car. This can sometime require me to threaten them with the Gards or whatever as they can't believe they are being put out, thing is, if there aren't many taxis around once someone sees you put out of a taxi other drivers are reluctent to take you themselves as they view you as troublesome

MadDog76 · 09-11-2014 09:01PM

Spook_ie wrote: »

One point you are missing, the title of the thread reads

Negotiating a fare with a taxi driver who then goes mental!

NOT

Will €25 Cover a Trip

The other point I'd raise is it's seldom anyone asks me for a negotiated fare other than in some b/s tone of voice and trying to dictate how much they are going to pay NOT how much will I accept, not a good start for any kind of dialog.

The usual result is I tell them it's on the meter, and they either agree or get out, thing is though if they agree I'll tell them to get out anyway as I don't want people with an attitude in my car. This can sometime require me to threaten them with the Gards or whatever as they can't believe they are being put out, thing is, if there aren't many taxis around once someone sees you put out of a taxi other drivers are reluctent to take you themselves as they view you as troublesome

That explains how you missed the point ............ you should have read the OP's entire post and not just the title!!
He said "all I have on me is 25 euros, will that cover the fare?" .......... a very reasonable question as a Taxi driver will probably know better than a passenger what the average fare will cost depending on what day/time it is and the destination .......... it's a question I've asked numerous times and have always received a civil professional answer ........... "should be plenty" or "probably not at this time coz of traffic" or "maybe but sure there's a ATM on the way if need be" etc.

Spook_ie · 09-11-2014 09:18PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

That explains how you missed the point ............ you should have read the OP's entire post and not just the title!!
He said "all I have on me is 25 euros, will that cover the fare?" .......... a very reasonable question as a Taxi driver will probably know better than a passenger what the average fare will cost depending on what day/time it is and the destination .......... it's a question I've asked numerous times and have always received a civil professional answer ........... "should be plenty" or "probably not at this time coz of traffic" or "maybe but sure there's a ATM on the way if need be" etc.

No that explains why I believe the truth to lie somewhere between the two, else why use it as the title for the thread

DoYouEvenLift · 09-11-2014 09:28PM

That's nothing. I was short 20 cent in galway one time on an >€10 fare and I showed the driver I had literally nothing else left and apologised, most taxi drivers will be sound and not stingy enough to be picking pennies but this guy lost the plot. I got out of the car and apologised again as he was now shouting and seemed like he was ready to actually fight over it lol. He got out of his car and started walking after me while continuing being a nutcase but stopped after about 20 feet and went back to his car then held the horn when driving past me. Funny stuff.

No taxi driver should ever take the chance of leaving the car to chase or confront someone either I think, could easily leave the car open to being robbed. Not saying I'd do that but I'm sure some people would be capable

Negotiating a fare with a taxi driver who then goes mental!

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