Gendered marketing

McChubbin · 04-11-2014 8:55pm #1

A friend of mine is currently trying to source a gender-neutral toy kitchen for her little boy for Christmas as she reckons he'd love it but is having a major problem trying to find one that isn't pink and specificly marketed towards the female populace.
It got me thinking as to how things are marketed specificly to certain gender stereotypes:
Pink for girls, blue for boys.
Barbies, dolls and pink 'feminine' laptops for girls, footballs, builder's toys and blue 'masculine' things for boys.

This subject has been on my mind for a while as I've discovered in recent months that Kinder Eggs are now going this route with regards to their toy marketing: Barbie-related toys in pink-wrapped eggs for girls, Transformers in blue for boys.
I personally believe that gender stereotypes are wrong and damaging to a child's sense of identity during their formative years.
Who's to say boys can't play with dolls?
Who's to say girls can't play football?

When I was little, Kinder Eggs were fairly innoculous, non-descript things with toys that were relatively gender-neutral. I used to love collecting the toys regardless of whether they were considered "girly/ boyish" but it worries me that today girls are expected to accept Barbie-centric pink toys and boys to have strictly blue items.

I could go on for many pages as to why I hate Barbie and all she stands for but I won't clutter this topic with my views on her.
I'd like to hear the views from others on this issue as I think it would make for an interesting debate.

Eroticplants · 04-11-2014 9:15pm

It's a key issue in feminism, breaking down gender roles and gender stereotypes.
Wouldn't so much see it as an LGBT based issue but a lot of feminist ideals would translate over into the LGBT circle I suppose.

Also, the segregation of the kinder egg toys SERIOUSLY pissed me off too and the fact that you hardly ever have to make the toy anymore but that's a different issue.

Chucken · 04-11-2014 9:33pm

Santy is bringing this for my 2 year old grandson: http://www.littlewoodsireland.ie/smoby-bon-appetit-kitchen/1379108390.prd

There are a few gender neutral kitchens on that site.
http://www.littlewoodsireland.ie/toys/pretend-play/role-play/e/b/21043,5296.end?numProducts=40

Up to a few weeks ago one of his favourite things to bash around, was a pink walker thingy. I found it in a 2nd hand shop and he loved it.
He has a buggy and a 'baby'. He also loves playing dress up (robbing shoes or jackets belonging to me (nana) or his dad, he's not fussy)

When he plays outside with his little friends, it's usually a ball game or chasing, which involves a lot of falling over and dirt

As a family, we all agreed he wasn't to be told 'you can't have that cos it's for a girl'.
Bearing in mind that his dad is a 6 foot block of a rugby player.
It's down to the parents. After all it's just coloured plastic or fabric. Let them explore

McChubbin · 04-11-2014 9:38pm

Well said, Chicken.

Cheers for the links- I will pass them on to my friend as I'm sure she'll appreciate them.
She's of the same mind as your family- Let them explore.

Chucken · 04-11-2014 9:41pm

I should have said 'the parents attitude'

I'm training up the next Jamie Oliver/ Michael Flatley/ Ronan O Gara anyway:D

Sheldons Brain · 04-11-2014 9:47pm

People have genders, and toys recognise that, people who buy them should too.

Chucken · 04-11-2014 9:54pm

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

People have genders, and toys recognise that, people who buy them should too.

Would you care to expand on that comment?

eviltwin · 04-11-2014 9:58pm

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

People have genders, and toys recognise that, people who buy them should too.

And what? Your gender dictates the kinds of thing you like to play with as a kid?

My 4 yr old boy plays with anything, he has lots of dolls that his sister has outgrown that he plays with. He still plays with his "boys" toys too. The only thing he hates is pink so he won't go near anything of that colour but give him a "girls" toy in another hue and he'll play with it no bother.

There are studies that show that boys who play with dolls tend to make better fathers compared to boys who are more gender specific.

We seem to have no problem letting girls do things that were traditionally masculine and that's been good for them so why not let boys do "girlie" things? Where is the harm?

Annasopra · 04-11-2014 10:12pm

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

People have genders, and toys recognise that, people who buy them should too.

How do toys recognise gender? Do dolls and kitchens tell children that they are girls? Do trucks and soldiers tell children they are boys?

Ash885 · 05-11-2014 12:01am

Is it not a bit ironic trying to find a "blue kitchen" or something non-pink to show that boys can play with these toys? Surely colour doesn't matter if you're essentially making a statement that the toys are gender neutral. Just buy the kitchen. Of course you don't want something blatantly feminine but any kitchen I've seen in Smiths, Little Woods etc. for 18 months+ is largely gender neutral and many parents buy them regardless of social constrictions.

If you ever see play time in an infant/pre school classroom you'll see girls equally go for the DIY play equipment and pretend to fix pipes along with the boys designs clothes out of felt etc. It's come a long way so we must give credit to the changes that are largely still in the pipeline. Of course if you look at Argos' catalogues there's a plethoria of evidence showing gender stereotyping, but that's targeted at the consumer and as long as the consumer (i.e. adult) is level headed it will be ineffective. The advertisers are playing catch up I think.

Aard · 05-11-2014 1:10am

McChubbin wrote: »

[...]
Barbie-related toys in pink-wrapped eggs for girls, Transformers in blue for boys.
[...]
Who's to say boys can't play with dolls?
Who's to say girls can't play football?
[...]

Who's to say girls can't play with a blue Transformer?

Daith · 05-11-2014 10:03am

Surely if you're saying "I don't want a pink kitchen for my son" you're just reinforcing the gender/colour stereotype anyway?

Yes son, you can play with anything as long as it's not pink because we want you to be able to play with anything?

Annasopra · 05-11-2014 10:13am

Daith wrote: »

Surely if you're saying "I don't want a pink kitchen for my son" you're just reinforcing the gender/colour stereotype anyway?

Yes son, you can play with anything as long as it's not pink because we want you to be able to play with anything?

No. I dont think so. In my view - its more - "we want you to play with that toy but the designers have presented an ideological narrative that only girls play with that toy (and by extension cook in the kitchen) so we would prefer if you played with that toy with the ideological narrative removed"

Daith · 05-11-2014 10:17am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No - in my view - its more - "we want you to play with that toy but the designers have presented an ideological narrative that only girls play with that toy (and by extension cook in the kitchen) so we would prefer if you played with that toy with the ideological narrative removed"

It's the parent still agreeing with the ideological view the designers have. The parent is still pushing the gender difference.

Reinforcing pink is for girls, blue is for boys.

eviltwin · 05-11-2014 11:02am

Daith wrote: »

Surely if you're saying "I don't want a pink kitchen for my son" you're just reinforcing the gender/colour stereotype anyway?

Yes son, you can play with anything as long as it's not pink because we want you to be able to play with anything?

It's targeting kids too though. The parents might be colour blind but just try getting a young lad to play with anything pink and covered in glitter.

Daith · 05-11-2014 11:34am

eviltwin wrote: »

It's targeting kids too though. The parents might be colour blind but just try getting a young lad to play with anything pink and covered in glitter.

That's a slight extreme example. Would you not buy your son a cookbook that had Nigella Lawson on the front?

Just checked toy kitchens on Smyths. Any issue here?

http://www.smythstoys.com/ie/en-ie/toys/fashion-dolls/c-498/kitchens-household/p-4675/bosch-kitchen/

http://www.smythstoys.com/ie/en-ie/toys/fashion-dolls/c-498/kitchens-household/p-5014/little-tikes-cookin-creations-premium-wood-kitchen/

http://www.smythstoys.com/ie/en-ie/toys/fashion-dolls/c-498/kitchens-household/p-1812/step-2-lifestyle-dream-kitchen/

eviltwin · 05-11-2014 11:51am

Daith wrote: »

That's a slight extreme example. Would you not buy your son a cookbook that had Nigella Lawson on the front?

Just checked toy kitchens on Smyths. Any issue here?

http://www.smythstoys.com/ie/en-ie/toys/fashion-dolls/c-498/kitchens-household/p-4675/bosch-kitchen/

http://www.smythstoys.com/ie/en-ie/toys/fashion-dolls/c-498/kitchens-household/p-5014/little-tikes-cookin-creations-premium-wood-kitchen/

http://www.smythstoys.com/ie/en-ie/toys/fashion-dolls/c-498/kitchens-household/p-1812/step-2-lifestyle-dream-kitchen/

A Nigella Lawson book isn't a toy, its not marketed to kids.

I have no issues at all with my son playing with a kitchen pink or not and I think most parents are the same but boys when they get to a certain age are funny about things that are perceived to be girlie. I can see it with the boys in my family, they might play with a certain toy on their own but when they are with their friends they won't because they don't want to be slagged.

Daith · 05-11-2014 12:09pm

eviltwin wrote: »

A Nigella Lawson book isn't a toy, its not marketed to kids. .

Why wouldn't it be? If you want to buy your child a toy kitchen and they can express an interest in cooking? Why wouldn't you start cooking with your son and follow recipes from a book?

eviltwin wrote: »

I have no issues at all with my son playing with a kitchen pink or not and I think most parents are the same but boys when they get to a certain age are funny about things that are perceived to be girlie. I can see it with the boys in my family, they might play with a certain toy on their own but when they are with their friends they won't because they don't want to be slagged

And the parents are reinforcing that perception by saying "we're not buying that kitchen set because it's girlie/made for girls".

eviltwin · 05-11-2014 12:11pm

Daith wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be? If you want to buy your child a toy kitchen and they can express an interest in cooking? Why wouldn't you start cooking with your son and follow recipes from a book?

Who says I don't? I've already said I don't stereotype toys, my point was about the children themselves not the parents.

Daith · 05-11-2014 12:14pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Who says I don't? I've already said I don't stereotype toys, my point was about the children themselves not the parents.

In this case it's not the child buying something but the parent and the parent deciding what is for boys or girls.

I just think it's an interesting debate though. I just don't get the idea of gender neutral because it's still boils down to a parents perception.

Clearlier · 05-11-2014 12:32pm

Daith wrote: »

And the parents are reinforcing that perception by saying "we're not buying that kitchen set because it's girlie/made for girls".

Unless of course they're also not buying the kitchen set that's marketed at boys in which case they're reinforcing the perception that gender stereotypes are to be avoided.

Ash885 · 05-11-2014 5:39pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Who says I don't? I've already said I don't stereotype toys, my point was about the children themselves not the parents.

It's a proven fact children get these stereotypes from their adult peers. Infant rooms around the country have roleplay sections to their play timetable. Lads are just as keen to play with "girly" dolls and toys as much as girls pretend to be mechanics. We aren't magically born to be attracted to blues and pinks, it's social conventions.

Problems start when children get a little bit older, and start going on play dates and interact with other children and adults in other houses/places. Then the stereo types are more thoroughly enforced so as not to look "weird". though,not by children themselves though as there'd be no reason to question these things by a child. It's from an exterior source. Then the children put this in place within their own social peer groups.

And that's the purpose of this thread is to challange and discuss this. However it's highly ironic that the OP is giving out about kitchens only being in pink, heavily targeted at girls and that's not fitting for a boy, when in fact a pink kitchen is just as normal, or should be percieved as such. Asking for a "boy version" of a kitchen is just insane and reinforcing the fact if anything or everything is pink/feminine it's not meant for you. Boys can like pink things. Girls can like blue things. When allowed. Shock. Lead by example and buy the frilly kitchen.

freshpopcorn · 05-11-2014 5:59pm

Now I'm rarely in toy shops but when ever I have being I've always found there were toy kitchens that were suited to both both sexes if colour was an issue for you.
Regarding kinder eggs. I heard somewhere before that the reason they made pink\blue ones was because they weren't really selling to the female market and they were trying to increase sales.

Annasopra · 05-11-2014 8:56pm

Ash885 wrote: »

It's a proven fact children get these stereotypes from their adult peers.

Is it? surely adults are not childrens peers anyway

Ash885 · 05-11-2014 11:25pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Is it? surely adults are not childrens peers anyway

Well studies argue and differ all the time, but from my experience and research it's clear there's a link. Children make gender references on their own of course, but the kinds we are talking about are heavily adult influenced.

Children learn social concepts both from each other and also from adults. So are we really going to debate semantics? I'll rephrase then, adults in their vicinity peer :pac: But if you use the term loosely like I intended, you'd see peer groups as a group whereby there's a similar social status within a group who follow a specific hierarchy. In this case, children watching adults.

Annasopra · 06-11-2014 7:09am

Any thoughts on these pens?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004F9QBE6?vs=1

Annasopra · 06-11-2014 7:17am

Ash885 wrote: »

Asking for a "boy version" of a kitchen is just insane and reinforcing the fact if anything or everything is pink/feminine it's not meant for you.

Its not asking for a boy version in my view. Its asking for a gender neutral version. A version that isnt specifically targeted for boys or for girls.

I dont agree that it is insane at all. I think it is parents who would prefer if their children were not constricted to the ideas that adults have about gender roles and the nuclear family.
I think its ridiculous for example that lego have lego kitchens in pink specifically marketed at girls.

L1011 · 06-11-2014 9:19am

Lego found that when they did gender neutral marketing they sold far less product; however the old 'simple' girls lines were failures too. The new ones are just add l as complex to build as the main line, finally

Daith · 06-11-2014 9:57am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its not asking for a boy version in my view. Its asking for a gender neutral version. A version that isnt specifically targeted for boys or for girls.

Lets take the Smyths examples above. In two of them only girls are featured but the kitchen itself looks gender neutral. Not pink and glittery.

Now is it being targeted towards girls because there's a picture of a girl playing with the set?

Is the below image saying that boys make money and girls are only suited to minimum wage jobs? Or is the girl a successful business owner with her own shop and the guy is on the dole?

Aard · 06-11-2014 11:58am

Maybe all kids' toys should be made only in pleasant shades of green and yellow. Orange at a push. Purple's still too fruity, right?

Ash885 · 06-11-2014 4:39pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its not asking for a boy version in my view. Its asking for a gender neutral version. A version that isnt specifically targeted for boys or for girls.

I dont agree that it is insane at all. I think it is parents who would prefer if their children were not constricted to the ideas that adults have about gender roles and the nuclear family.
I think its ridiculous for example that lego have lego kitchens in pink specifically marketed at girls.

That children not be constricted to the ideas that adults have? That's my point, so why not just buy any old kitchen? If you're telling a child that (a) you can't have a pink kitchen because that's meant for a girl and you're a boy, and (b) you can't have a blue kitchen because that's meant for a boy and well we want to teach you not to be stereo-typed, you're giving faaaaaar too much notice and giving too much power to marketers, the very people we're having issues with. Because then where does the gender neuteral colour come in? Then everything would look all aunt and mute and not very appealing for a child.

Toy companies are out to make money. You have your traditional toys for boys and for girls set out. If you're out to prove to your children that you're free to play with whatever you want whenever you want, going for gender neutral is not the way to go about it.

Having said that you can't really stop any of the stereo typing happening realistically with the media/celebrity/Disney. I suppose just give the child enough confidence in themselves to make their own choices where possible.

Gendered marketing

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