Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

05-11-2014 04:42AM

kryogen wrote: »

Oh, to whoever was telling me Arsenal are looking very impressive, did you watch the game tonight? Arsenal will be Arsenal

Doesn't mean they are going to repeat that in a week and a half, they're in as much transition as United but coping with it better. Walcott is someone I'm scared shítless of, hopefully he won't be fit enough to start.

As far as my complaints about LVG, we are where we are now with him and the future will get better. I'd have preferred Moyes to stay on but LVG is a world class coach who will hopefully make some big improvements to the structure of the club while here. Hopefully he signs a few younger players in the next transfer windows but I'd worry about how much is going to be stumped up if the CL isn't made. It's not a given that Southampton will fall off and with Sanchez Arsenal can win any game, heck even Spurs are a potential threat until totally proven otherwise. The players stepped up against the 2 big teams but now they have to produce a consistent run of victories with a makeshift defense. Easier said than done with Arsenal the game after next.

I just hope we're not back here this time next year with a different manager again if LVG finishes outside the top 4.

Billy86 · 05-11-2014 07:53AM

kryogen wrote: »

Oh, to whoever was telling me Arsenal are looking very impressive, did you watch the game tonight? Arsenal will be Arsenal

B*awards cost me on a 6/1 treble (Dortmund, Atlético, them all -1)... hmph.

As for defensive players in January I definitely am in favour... BUT it can be an infamously difficult time to pick up players in at times, so if it winds up a case of buying defenders for the sake of buying them (like Shawcoss would be, and like some believe Rojo was) I really would rather not. Smalling needs to be gone at this stage and McNair really could do with 12-18 months on loan (hopefully his appearances help him get interest from a newly promoted or bottom half club in January or next summer). Hopefully Woodward is at work getting things quietly ready like Gill was doing in winter 2005,re. Evra/Vidic so we can just pick them up early on without hassle, but if he cannot do so then I would rather wait to get the right players rather than just getting any players for the sake of saying we signed someone.

Mitch Connor · 05-11-2014 08:01AM

Billy86 wrote: »

B*awards cost me on a 6/1 treble (Dortmund, Atlético, them all -1)... hmph.

As for defensive players in January I definitely am in favour... BUT it can be an infamously difficult time to pick up players in at times, so if it winds up a case of buying defenders for the sake of buying them (like Shawcoss would be, and like some believe Rojo was) I really would rather not. Smalling needs to be gone at this stage and McNair really could do with 12-18 months on loan (hopefully his appearances help him get interest from a newly promoted or bottom half club in January or next summer). Hopefully Woodward is at work getting things quietly ready like Gill was doing in winter 2005,re. Evra/Vidic so we can just pick them up early on without hassle, but if he cannot do so then I would rather wait to get the right players rather than just getting any players for the sake of saying we signed someone.

For me, the big problem is the alck of top class, and available centre backs. who the feck is there?

Hummels is clearly a target for United but i would see no hope of signing him in January. Who else is there? The fact United and Barcelona were fighting over Vermaelen in the summer speaks volumes imo.

Obviously there are still some very good centre backs around, but players like Verane (SP) and Silva aren't going to be sold by the clubs willingly so they aren't viable targets imo. There are increasing rumours of a transfer chase between United and some other clubs for Pique. Would certainly cover the 'ball playing' part of LVGs cb attribute desires, but i've never been convinced about his actual defensive game, I don't think it is as good as the hype would have us believe - and has been masked somewhat by the fact Spain and Barcelona generally have had the ball for 80 of the 90 minutes in most the games he has played up until fairly recently.

Despite spurning him in the summer, and seemingly every window since time began I can see us being linked with Garay again, as we have been in the last week or so

Shawcross and Vlaar will be mentioned a lot and while i think both would be good squad additions I would be very annoyed if either were considered the anwer to our issues. Sure, they would help the situation and Vlaar would at least bring some leadership to the backline but I don't think either are or will be top class.

Billy86 · 05-11-2014 08:03AM

To be fair, DDG in goals with Rooney, RVP, Hernandez, Mata, Kagawa and Welbeck in the attacking spots is a strong unit to inherit.

In defence and midfield, Rafael, Smalling, Buttner, Evra, Fletcher, Anderson, Fellaini, Cleverley, Young, Valencia, Januzaj and Nani, are not. Not to say every player there is awful, but outside of Rafael and an in form Nani, there's really not a tonne of quality in there. Evra added leadership but was comfortably past his best and didn't seem to want to rotate with Shaw during the year.

Jones, Evans and Carrick are positive additions to that bunch, but all deserve to have an asterisk beside them from all the time they have missed.

Billy86 · 05-11-2014 08:24AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For me, the big problem is the alck of top class, and available centre backs. who the feck is there?

<snip>

Personally I think Shawcoss would not fit in at all at a top club, hard to put my finger on why exactly but I just think it's a lack of nuance and rounded news to his game. Vlaar I wouldn't be totally opposed to as a stop gap as he and LVG are familiar so he could slot in quickly and LVG got more out of him than anyone else has. But I wouldn't want us to go over 6mn or so, and I figure Villa might want more than that since they were making so much noise over extortionate fees in the summer with how important they viewed him.

Agree completely in Pique, if we got the 352 to work he might have been interesting to look at as the central CB or sweeper for a bargain type price but I'm not a big fan of his actual defending either. And Varane, etc are off limits.

Outside of Hummels there are still a good few options I like. I'm on the bus to the airport at the minute so they're not all springing to mind, but Subotic I feel could be a great Vidic type replacement, Howedes could also be a very good signing and gives plenty of leadership. PSG are not exactly a selling club but a cheeky bid for Marquinhos might not be a bad call since he is now behind Silva and Luiz (but we would need to act before they find out how terrible Luiz is!) and if LVG gets rid of one of Jones/Evans along with Smalling (who I am now just assuming is gone already) I wouldn't be totally opposed to getting two younger guys 'on the cusp' like Inigo Martinez and De Vrij (who I always rated far, far higher than Martins Indi who I personally just don't think is very good). But one of the first three would be right up the top of my list. Diego Godin would also be good and would fit the Premiership very well but turns 29 on Feb and I reckon would have a fair bit of adjusting to do - not a good mix with a likely very high price tag.

In a Football Manager universe I would just throw everything we can at Dortmund for both Hummels and Subsonic though, obviously. Both turn 26 in November so have a good 7 years of their best left, have played together brilliantly for years, and are e pertence at the very highest levels for quite some time. I would happily pay up to 70mn or even a little more for that duo... but it's still completely unrealistic for Dortmund to sell us both of them, sadly.

Will I Amnt · 05-11-2014 08:34AM

The state of the defence

I was admiring Coloccini there the weekend... He would walk into that back line at this moment in time.

Nunu · 05-11-2014 09:00AM

Bring back John O'Shea...I'm serious.

Mr_Red · 05-11-2014 09:06AM

Nunu wrote: »

Bring back John O'Shea...I'm serious.

He Wont come back

Hes earning a Legend Status at Sunderland

kryogen · 05-11-2014 09:14AM

Varane is one of the players we were genuinely in for and missed out on over the last few years, and one that still annoys me! Who knows, he may not have made the same progress if he had come to United, but he is already so good so young

Maximus Alexander · 05-11-2014 09:41AM

That Sergio Ramos lad wouldn't be a bad shout at right back now that Madrid and United are trading players. Could loan them Smalling in return.

Billy86 · 05-11-2014 09:46AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That Sergio Ramos lad wouldn't be a bad shout at right back now that Madrid and United are trading players. Could loan them Smalling in return.

Defensively speaking, it wouldn't be much of an upgrade.

Your Airbag · 05-11-2014 09:49AM

Pro. F wrote: »

Here's the relevant bit from my first post on the topic again:

I've bolded the relevant parts of my argument that you are ignoring. As you can see, from the start I made explicit reference to how he shares in the blame for the current defensive issues.

There is no shifting of the goal posts, my argument is simply more nuanced then you are willing to deal with.

There was no need to re-bold those points. I read them the first time around and had little problem with them. As I said numerous times now I had no problem with those points.

Your point of not wanting to give LVG cash to buy CBs in January on the other hand is a terrible and non-sensical one and it stands on its own merits as a point, a very bad one.

Not wanting yo give LVG cash in January is aside from form and team style and is placing financial restrictions on the manager and would damage our season and team. Its a rubbish idea.

I have an issue with that and nothing else. You trying to bring other points from your posts into it is understandable. I'd be trying to move the goal posts to after saying something so silly.

Will I Amnt · 05-11-2014 10:04AM

Billy86 wrote: »

Defensively speaking, it wouldn't be much of an upgrade.

Ramos is so underrated. He can be rash, cynical and fairly dirty at times but the man has pretty much everything, his tackling is a thing of beauty.

Maximus Alexander · 05-11-2014 10:06AM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Ramos is so underrated. He can be rash, cynical and fairly dirty at times but the man has pretty much everything, his tackling is a thing of beauty.

Agree - he makes tackling look so hilariously easy that it almost makes it look like I could do it.

Your Airbag · 05-11-2014 10:14AM

We scouted 28yr old Argentine midfielder Enzo Perez when he played for Benfica the other night.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/man-united-sent-a-scout-to-benfica-v-monaco-to-watch-e30m-enzo-perez-a-bola/

The lads were at a unicef bash last night. Time for the WAG and fashion critics to unload

bangkok · 05-11-2014 10:17AM

ericzeking wrote: »

"Christy" angled to leave us for a number of years and used us in numerous contract negotiations, he was a great player for us and all and I think he showed a lot of class when he came back last year but I think that the adulation directed towards him, as a player for a rival club is cringe worthy at times.

Then you have Rooney who is vilified by many supporters for using the available tools to get the best possible deal for himself yet he still plays and gives us 100% for us.

Mind boggling stuff.

You forgot to add that Rooney also wanted to join Man City..:rolleyes:

RasTa · 05-11-2014 10:24AM

Rachel looking the best as always

ericzeking · 05-11-2014 10:30AM

bangkok wrote: »

You forgot to add that Rooney also wanted to join Man City..:rolleyes:

Would you go way outta that...

Where did he ever say he specifically wanted to join City?

He wanted a pay rise, so he threatened to leave to get what he felt he was worth in the market. City were the big dogs pay wise at the time so the media were drawing conclusions. Even if it were true, so what? He's still actually at the club and he gives 100%.

People do this type of thing in all walks of life.

The other lad wanted to go (nothing against that) and went yet he is still probably more revered than Rooney, that is the point I was making.

FWIW, I do actually like Ronaldo.

bangkok · 05-11-2014 10:38AM

ericzeking wrote: »

Would you go way outta that...

Where did he ever say he specifically wanted to join City?

He wanted a pay rise, so he threatened to leave to get what he felt he was worth in the market. City were the big dogs pay wise at the time so the media were drawing conclusions. Even if it were true, so what? He's still actually at the club and he gives 100%.

People do this type of thing in all walks of life.

The other lad wanted to go (nothing against that) and went yet he is still probably more revered than Rooney, that is the point I was making.

FWIW, I do actually like Ronaldo.

do you think he was going to come out and say specifically he wanted to join city?! every man and his dog in Manchester knew his agent had talks with city and that was the move he was pushing for. Coleens sister was very sick at the time and has since passed away and that was the reason behind not leaving Manchester.

Fair enough Ronaldo left, but he went to Madrid and it was his dream to play there as it would be for most players from south America/Portugal/spain.

Rooney questioned the club saying they "cannot match his ambitions" and I think that's why there are still and will always be sour grapes towards rooney. He didn't exactly handle himself well off the pitch either, coming back over weight, smoking and grannygate!!

The_Kew_Tour · 05-11-2014 10:39AM

Paul Scholes >Liverpool fans.

Your Airbag · 05-11-2014 10:44AM

bangkok wrote: »

You forgot to add that Rooney also wanted to join Man City..:rolleyes:

The exact opposite in fact

"Everyone is saying that I was definitely going to Manchester City," said Rooney.
"Believe me, if I had gone it wouldn't have been in England."

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/wayne-rooney-says-he-was-never-going-to-join-manchester-city-6540553.html

The Moldy Gowl · 05-11-2014 10:51AM

Smallish should be grounded for a week with no phone or internet or tv.
He should be forced to read this thread printed on comic sans for the last year.

The Moldy Gowl · 05-11-2014 10:54AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The exact opposite in fact

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/wayne-rooney-says-he-was-never-going-to-join-manchester-city-6540553.html

My point from yesterday of that no one knows anything about transfers and the media and trusted journalists are just propaganda machines. People are very fast to believe anything negative, then disregard everything else.

bangkok · 05-11-2014 11:01AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The exact opposite in fact

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/wayne-rooney-says-he-was-never-going-to-join-manchester-city-6540553.html

easy to say that after the event.

sky88 · 05-11-2014 11:03AM

bangkok wrote: »

do you think he was going to come out and say specifically he wanted to join city?! every man and his dog in Manchester knew his agent had talks with city and that was the move he was pushing for. Coleens sister was very sick at the time and has since passed away and that was the reason behind not leaving Manchester.

Fair enough Ronaldo left, but he went to Madrid and it was his dream to play there as it would be for most players from south America/Portugal/spain.

Rooney questioned the club saying they "cannot match his ambitions" and I think that's why there are still and will always be sour grapes towards rooney. He didn't exactly handle himself well off the pitch either, coming back over weight, smoking and grannygate!!

To be honest i think Rooney had a point with the transfer not being up to united standards as were seeing from last year and bits from this season that some of the transfer around that time were not good enough but i still think Rooney went about this in the wrong way. Its also no different to the reason RVP joined us from Arsenal because he felt the they were lacking ambition.

The Moldy Gowl · 05-11-2014 11:07AM

bangkok wrote: »

easy to say that after the event.

Easy to believe he is lying too. Easy to believe he isn't lying.

Putting your faith in the media to report a sports story is a mugs game, all based off hear say and how people want to be perceived.
How many times has a club/player said they aren't doing something, then go and do it.

What does the media owe them, that they should tell them their business or plans?
Loyal fans me hole, they owe the fans nothing. Look at Fellaini,Torres too, or any player that makes a mistakes. Getting cursed out of it for making a mistake.

Your Airbag · 05-11-2014 11:11AM

bangkok wrote: »

easy to say that after the event.

Even easier to say he wanted to join City just to attack him when there was no indication he wanted to join them. City showed interest and the papers ran with it and some people choose to believe the tabloids speculation or not. Rooney can't control who shows interest in him or what the papers say. You can control what you believe from the tabloids or not.

I have no doubt he would have not joined City had he left.

DM_7 · 05-11-2014 11:34AM

For United new centre backs are needed because of thw number of injuries. Smalling and Jones need to improve a lot on the ball or could be replaced.

I don't see Van Gaal buying any defenders that are not very good in possession.

Not sure what that mens for Centre Half but I wonder if Clyne will be a target again like when he was at palace?

bangkok · 05-11-2014 11:37AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Even easier to say he wanted to join City just to attack him when there was no indication he wanted to join them. City showed interest and the papers ran with it and some people choose to believe the tabloids speculation or not. Rooney can't control who shows interest in him or what the papers say. You can control what you believe from the tabloids or not.

I have no doubt he would have not joined City had he left.

it wasn't just the papers at the time, it was well known around the city that the deal could be done but whether united would have sold to city is another issue. stories like this do leak whether the club like it or not as there is so many different people involved.

different point but just look at the press they knew 2 days before the game that gerrard would not be starting last night and they were proven right as someone in the club be it the gerrard himself or someone close to him told someone in the press he wasn't starting

Kerrydude1981 · 05-11-2014 11:40AM

Is that Anderson between Mata and DDG??

Has his head shrunk?

Mata surely chanced his arm with Rachel Riley

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

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