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Good economic news thread

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Comments

  • #212
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    I wonder if tiger kidnapping and bank robberies are included in the economic figures ?

    Also with all the recent gangland murders the hitman business must also be adding the economy.


  • #213
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/1104/656805-eu-growth-forecasts/

    "Ireland will be the fastest growing economy in the European Union this year, according to the European Commission's autumn economic forecast.

    The Irish growth rate is expected to be 4.6%, compared to an EU average of 1.3% and a euro zone average of 0.8%. "

    "The forecast also suggests that the national debt will fall to 106% of GDP in 2016, down from 123.3% of GDP in 2013."

    The debt is coming down very rapidly.


  • #214
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/1104/656906-exchequer-october-tax/

    and the Exchequer returns are still well above target.


  • #215
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Lets not forget that Diesel laundering is also a massive business providing hundreds of jobs.

    If the shinners got into power we would see alot more of this kind of activity.


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1104/656790-diesel-laundering-plant/


    It said organised criminal gangs are setting up front companies to source and launder fuel, which is then sold through petrol stations they control.
    The commissioners estimate the gangs control 150 of these petrol stations all over the country.


  • #216
    Sand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Cliff Taylor asking the obvious question "How can Ireland be growing so fast as Europe slows"

    Asks two questions: How come Ireland is expected to grow at three time the rate of our European neighbours?

    And if things are going so great, why is consumer confidence *declining*?

    Doesn't really figure out the answer. I've already outlined my theory. I think statistics are powerful, when understood and used correctly. It is worth remembering that Robert McNamara placed a lot of value in a statistical analysis of the Vietnam War. Statistically the US was winning the Vietnam War right up until it lost.


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  • #217
    zielarz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 175 ✭✭zielarz


    Rising tax revenues aren't good news, they're actually bad news. It means that government robbed more money and people have less money to spend.


  • #218
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    zielarz wrote: »
    Rising tax revenues aren't good news, they're actually bad news. It means that government robbed more money and people have less money to spend.

    Well that turns conventional wisdom on its head. :rolleyes:


  • #219
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Well that turns conventional wisdom on its head. :rolleyes:

    And to think that someone thanked that previous post!


  • #220
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Sheldons Brain wrote: »
    And to think that someone thanked that previous post!

    It shows the level of understanding of economics on this board.


  • #221
    Sand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I'm not going to defend that particular comment, but is the increase in tax revenues matched by an increase in services to the citizen/taxpayer? Probably not when you consider public sector unions are looking for pay hikes already.

    The best an Irish citizen can view those figures with is a grim neutrality. No particular reason to celebrate if the rising revenues are allocated to fund pay rises for the public sector best paid for the least results in the developed world.


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  • #222
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Sand wrote: »
    I'm not going to defend that particular comment, but is the increase in tax revenues matched by an increase in services to the citizen/taxpayer? Probably not when you consider public sector unions are looking for pay hikes already.

    The best an Irish citizen can view those figures with is a grim neutrality. No particular reason to celebrate if the rising revenues are allocated to fund pay rises for the public sector best paid for the least results in the developed world.

    I like your analysis of the situation.


  • #223
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    Sand wrote: »
    And if things are going so great, why is consumer confidence *declining*?

    If you look at the report that article is based upon it shows that consumer confidence has been increasing pretty solidly for the last 2 years. Random ups and downs are a statistical feature of the data series and are almost completely meaningless.


  • #224
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    The Water charge crisis is the reason CC is down.


  • #225
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    Rightwing wrote: »
    The Water charge crisis is the reason CC is down.

    There's no way of knowing that. My guess is sun spots.


  • #226
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    andrew wrote: »
    There's no way of knowing that. My guess is sun spots.

    A guess is right, and it's not something I pay much heed to as consumers are fickle, but:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/1104/656819-water-plays-role-in-drop-in-consumer-sentiment/
    Water charges uncertainty plays role in fall in consumer sentiment: KBC
    There was a sharp drop in consumer confidence last month, which economists say is surprising and difficult to explain.
    The survey was carried out before the Budget last month, though this did not weigh on sentiment. KBC says its sense is that concerns in relation to water charges could have played a role.
    The KBC Bank Ireland ESRI Consumer Sentiment index dropped from a near eight year high of 92.8 in September to 85.5 in October.
    KBC says: "We can't find a fully conclusive reason for this deterioration."
    Economist Austin Hughes said: "The results are also consistent with many consumers' experience of a recovery that they hear and read to be very healthy but one which they are not feeling in their personal finances."


  • #227
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    "KBC says its sense is that concerns in relation to water charges could have played a role"

    Translation: "We're making up something plausible sounding in order to give RTÉ a nice relevant sound-bite"


  • #228
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    They know what they are talking about. The way the episode was handled was embarrassing and left a lot to be desired. Uncertainty => everyone hates it.


  • #229
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Sand wrote: »
    I'm not going to defend that particular comment, but is the increase in tax revenues matched by an increase in services to the citizen/taxpayer? Probably not when you consider public sector unions are looking for pay hikes already.

    The best an Irish citizen can view those figures with is a grim neutrality. No particular reason to celebrate if the rising revenues are allocated to fund pay rises for the public sector best paid for the least results in the developed world.


    Tax revenue is increasing because more people are in jobs paying tax.
    Public Expenditure is decreasing because less people are receiving social welfare. That is all good news for everyone.

    Nothing at all to do with pay rises or increases in services.


  • #230
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    Sand wrote: »
    I'm not going to defend that particular comment, but is the increase in tax revenues matched by an increase in services to the citizen/taxpayer?

    No. it is matched by a reduction in the deficit.
    The best an Irish citizen can view those figures with is a grim neutrality. No particular reason to celebrate if the rising revenues are allocated to fund pay rises for the public sector best paid for the least results in the developed world.

    Exaggerate much?


  • #231
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Sand wrote: »
    I'm not going to defend that particular comment, but is the increase in tax revenues matched by an increase in services to the citizen/taxpayer? Probably not when you consider public sector unions are looking for pay hikes already.

    The best an Irish citizen can view those figures with is a grim neutrality. No particular reason to celebrate if the rising revenues are allocated to fund pay rises for the public sector best paid for the least results in the developed world.

    One of reasons Tax revenues have gone up is because of more stealth taxes like the increase in lorry tax to name just one.


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  • #232
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    Jumboman wrote: »
    One of reasons Tax revenues have gone up is because of more stealth taxes like the increase in lorry tax to name just one.

    One of the reasons there is global warming is because of the power used to charge my phone, but it is not exactly a material contribution.


  • #233
    zielarz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 175 ✭✭zielarz


    Sand wrote: »
    I'm not going to defend that particular comment, but is the increase in tax revenues matched by an increase in services to the citizen/taxpayer? The best an Irish citizen can view those figures with is a grim neutrality.
    Exactly. When a taxpayer is paying more in tax and receiving exactly the same services then he's worse off than before.

    Government can't deliver any service effectively. That's a fact. Also, ask yourself who is going to care more about your money, you or the government? Who is going to spend it better? The answer is obvious. For this reason, rising revenues are a very BAD news for Ireland. It means that the government can continue wasteful spending.


  • #234
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    Sand wrote: »
    . No particular reason to celebrate if the rising revenues are allocated to fund pay rises for the public sector best paid for the least results in the developed world.

    Dont fiorget the 1.3 billion spent on direct provision for asylum seekers and the 660 million spent on overseas aid.


  • #235
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    zielarz wrote: »
    Exactly. When a taxpayer is paying more in tax and receiving exactly the same services then he's worse off than before.

    Government can't deliver any service effectively. That's a fact. Also, ask yourself who is going to care more about your money, you or the government? Who is going to spend it better? The answer is obvious. For this reason, rising revenues are a very BAD news for Ireland. It means that the government can continue wasteful spending.

    Less services.

    Rising revenues are good, but meaningful only if the growth in revenue exceeds the growth in costs.


  • #236
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    zielarz wrote: »
    Exactly. When a taxpayer is paying more in tax and receiving exactly the same services then he's worse off than before.

    We're getting less services with more tax revenues.

    But that's all beside the point as the last 6 years (well, I'd say 13 years) wasn't normal economics with the IMF and whatnot. We are trying to repair a structurally unsound economy.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #237
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    zielarz wrote: »
    Exactly. When a taxpayer is paying more in tax and receiving exactly the same services then he's worse off than before.

    Nonsense. I hope to pay more tax in the future. I hope to pay more income tax as I have more income, I hope to pay a lot of CGT as I will have a lot of capital gain and I hope to pay a lot of VRT when I buy a Beemer with the proceeds of that capital gain. I hope not to pay too much inheritance tax, as a I plan to spend it all and not die too rich.
    Government can't deliver any service effectively. That's a fact.

    It isn't a fact, it is a matter of opinion. The reality is that government is suited to providing some services more so than others.
    Also, ask yourself who is going to care more about your money, you or the government? Who is going to spend it better? The answer is obvious. For this reason, rising revenues are a very BAD news for Ireland. It means that the government can continue wasteful spending.

    Let's have more recession, sure this will be painful for everyone, but as long as those nasty PS people suffer it will all be worth it.


  • #238
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Sheldons Brain wrote: »
    Nonsense. I hope to pay more tax in the future. I hope to pay more income tax as I have more income, I hope to pay a lot of CGT as I will have a lot of capital gain and I hope to pay a lot of VRT when I buy a Beemer with the proceeds of that capital gain. I hope not to pay too much inheritance tax, as a I plan to spend it all and not die too rich.



    It isn't a fact, it is a matter of opinion. The reality is that government is suited to providing some services more so than others.



    Let's have more recession, sure this will be painful for everyone, but as long as those nasty PS people suffer it will all be worth it.

    You are not a good ad for corporations like Apple & Google anyway. Shame they don't think like you. ;)


  • #239
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


  • #240
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    draiochtanois wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    AIB yes, not so sure about oil price. Have to ask why is it falling? Global growth is pretty weak, so in the immediate future yes it's good, but with longer term consequences.


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  • #241
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Rightwing wrote: »
    You are not a good ad for corporations like Apple & Google anyway. Shame they don't think like you. ;)

    We should all move to the Caymans or live offshore somewhere, anywhere, as long as it involves paying little or no tax!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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