Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

delw · 03-11-2014 01:27PM

Kirby wrote: »

Managers have blind spots. They all do. Sometimes it takes somebody else with a different perspective, a new set of eyes to highlight something obvious you have missed.

You have to have a strong staff or a manager that's willing to listen. Not always the case.

I'm sure Rodgers will work it out. If Liverpool are still playing this poorly throughout the whole season I'd be surprised.

Personally, I'd drop Balotelli and Gerrard. I think he needs to do both but I don't think he will. I'd wager Balotelli will be sold within a year and Gerrard wont be offered a new contract. Or rather he will, just on a lot less wages and he will turn it down.

Let's hope so & we haven't lost a chance of top 4 by the time he does

Harry Palmr · 03-11-2014 01:28PM

If Tony Pulis could fix an utterly hapeless Crystal Palace....

Gbear · 03-11-2014 01:29PM

SlickRic wrote: »

also, Brendan Rodgers is not stupid, surely. he can see the lack of intensity for himself. yes, there's not so much quality in the final third at the moment, but it's not the only reason for our woes, as he kind of suggested at the weekend. his own decisions are just baffling.

surely he has fúcking two eyes and can see Balotelli doesn't work well on his own, and when he has a partner, we look far more potent. a 9 year old could see it. so why does he keep doing shít that doesn't work? surely he has two fúcking eyes to see that the defence has no idea what it is doing. maybe try something different? get a new coach? tweak the way we're defending? do something. doing the same shít repeatedly and expecting different results is the hallmark of a low IQ, and he doesn't have that. surely he has two fúcking eyes to see that Lallana has played well pretty much every time he has played. we improve markedly when he's in the team. why is he not starting? is it stupidity? it can't be. so the answer to all of this has to be something else.

It's hard to know what line to take with criticising a manager. These guys have decades of experience whereas we know **** all. To add to that, they have intimate knowledge of the working of the club when even other professionals don't.

There's that certainty that they must know what they're doing but it's weighed against just how terrible we are on the pitch.

I don't think Lallana impressed hugely last time he played. But it's possible he was being saved for Real - Rodgers might think he's more suitable to that sort of game, maybe over Coutinho (who does seem to perform very differently away from Anfield).

Generally speaking, it feels like Rodgers is looking for something completely different on the pitch and he seems happy to be sacrificing our fluency up front for the time being.

****ed if I know what it is though. Maybe Sturridge will get back, we'll start defending properly and winning lots of games 2-0 and we'll go "gee whiz.. I guess that's what we were going for". Doesn't feel like we can just flip a switch though.

Mumha · 03-11-2014 01:30PM

Kirby wrote: »

Managers have blind spots. They all do. Sometimes it takes somebody else with a different perspective, a new set of eyes to highlight something obvious you have missed.

You have to have a strong staff or a manager that's willing to listen. Not always the case.

I'm sure Rodgers will work it out. If Liverpool are still playing this poorly throughout the whole season I'd be surprised.

Personally, I'd drop Balotelli and Gerrard. I think he needs to do both but I don't think he will. I'd wager Balotelli will be sold within a year and Gerrard wont be offered a new contract. Or rather he will, just on a lot less wages and he will turn it down.

I'd drop them both too, Balotelli until Sturridge comes back, and Gerrard because he can't do what we need him to do any longer.

I would then give Sturridge and Balotelli (as a combo) until the January window to click. However, while it is difficult to buy mid season, I think Liverpool need to invest regardless. The key to Liverpool doing so well last season was the workrate of Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling up front. I don't see Balotelli ever providing that workrate, and if the opposition know that, it changes their expectation of the Liverpool threat.

dogbert27 · 03-11-2014 01:30PM

The missing ingredient from last season is not Suarez, it's the Red Cafu.

We could do with a few of his crunching tackles this season.

Augmerson · 03-11-2014 01:30PM

dogbert27 wrote: »

Gerrard gave Sturridge the penalty against Everton last season to get his hat-trick.

I suppose my point was that if he hit the ground running on day one would we be seeing a different Balotelli now?

I see what your saying. I think some more astute posters might make the case better than I, but I'll say it wouldn't matter. Balotelli can't play on his own. He needs another strike up front alongside him. Unless Rodgers starts Borini or Lambert alongside him or Sturridge comes back, we won't see the best of him in my opinion.

martyos121 · 03-11-2014 01:37PM

dogbert27 wrote: »

The missing ingredient from last season is not Suarez, it's the Red Cafu.

We could do with a few of his crunching tackles this season.

I agree to an extent.
Absolutely no intensity in our defence at all, Flanagan adds so much energy to the side, and it's always great to see him send an opposition winger flying into the air.

03-11-2014 01:39PM

Urgency in the final 3rd and pressing the opposition. It's nearly non existant bar spells here and there

Lord Trollington · 03-11-2014 01:52PM

I'd drop Gerrard for Lucas.

I'd play Borini up front along with Balotelli. Henderson has not played well the last few gams, a spell on the line might do him good for Borini. I'd drop Lovren for Sakho, and Johnson for Manquillo.

Continuing to pick the same players and getting the same lethargic performances and results is the definition of madness.

awec · 03-11-2014 02:14PM

1. Mario isn't the source of all problems but he doesn't fit into the system we try to play. We must sign someone in January. Someone who will run all day but more importantly get themselves in to the box constantly. I'd keep Balotelli too.

2. This Gerrard saga is more nonsense to squeeze as much money as he can in to his new contract. Needs to be told a figure and told to take it or leave it, he is not as important to the team as he was. If he goes, we'll need to buy another covering midfielder because I wouldn't want to be playing Lucas too often.

3. Even hinting at sacking Rodgers is beyond stupid. That includes things like "I know it's too early to talk about sacking BR, but..." . It's November, settle down. People forget that it was our form after Christmas last year that sorted our season out.

Dont be at yourself · 03-11-2014 02:25PM

I'd go for:

Mignolet
Johnson-Skrtl-Lovren-Moreno

Can-Henderson

Coutinho
Sterling

Borini

Balotelli

Harry Palmr · 03-11-2014 02:27PM

I've just seen that Sturridge could be in the Real Madrid match squad, this better just be a Reus. Whats the point of risking him in a game Liverpool will lose and in truth don't need to try and get anything from - its the last two games he needs to play.

x43r0 · 03-11-2014 02:32PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I've just seen that Sturridge could be in the Real Madrid match squad, this better just be a Reus. Whats the point of risking him in a game Liverpool will lose and in truth don't need to try and get anything from - its the last two games he needs to play.

Jesus! With a front 4 of Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema AND Sturridge they'll hockey us :eek: :pac:

rob316 · 03-11-2014 02:36PM

x43r0 wrote: »

Jesus! With a front 4 of Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema AND Sturridge they'll hockey us :eek: :pac:

Ya we would just about manage the other 3 :pac:

dogbert27 · 03-11-2014 03:05PM

Augmerson wrote: »

I see what your saying. I think some more astute posters might make the case better than I, but I'll say it wouldn't matter. Balotelli can't play on his own. He needs another strike up front alongside him. Unless Rodgers starts Borini or Lambert alongside him or Sturridge comes back, we won't see the best of him in my opinion.

Yeah I agree, which I suppose is the question we're all asking, why isn't Rodgers playing Balotelli with Borini or someone?!

dogbert27 · 03-11-2014 03:09PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Urgency in the final 3rd and pressing the opposition. It's nearly non existant bar spells here and there

I remember in the Basle game Henderson running towards a man on the ball, stopping 1 metre short of a tackle and then running back to the space he'd left behind.

I was screaming at the tv "MAKE THE FN TACKLE!!!"

Last seasons pressing seems to be gone from the players who were doing it so well.
Henderson, Coutinho, Sterling. They've done it here and there this season but not consistently.

Harry Palmr · 03-11-2014 03:11PM

dogbert27 wrote: »

Yeah I agree, which I suppose is the question we're all asking, why isn't Rodgers playing Balotelli with Borini or someone?!

Because (and this is my best guess) he thinks that 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 protects the side better than 4-4-2 diamond, that its a cagier formation. As I posted last evening, even if that were true the defence is so shambolic it really doesn't help at all - in fact it nullifies what Liverpool do best.

The manager doesn't have enough faith in Liverpool attacking and retaining possession so he want to be more defensive, but the current set up nullifies Sterling as much as Balotelli so its a weakening not a strengthening. Meanwhile the defence frailties remain as glaring as ever.

If he got back to two up front with a diamond (and dropped Johnson) I think he might be pleasantly surprised.

Too early for the match thread I suppose?! :pac:

PropJoe10 · 03-11-2014 03:30PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Because (and this is my best guess) he thinks that 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 protects the side better than 4-4-2 diamond, that its a cagier formation. As I posted last evening, even if that were true the defence is so shambolic it really doesn't help at all - in fact it nullifies what Liverpool do best.

The manager doesn't have enough faith in Liverpool attacking and retaining possession so he want to be more defensive, but the current set up nullifies Sterling as much as Balotelli so its a weakening not a strengthening. Meanwhile the defence frailties remain as glaring as ever.

If he got back to two up front with a diamond (and dropped Johnson) I think he might be pleasantly surprised.

Too early for the match thread I suppose?! :pac:

Probably some truth in that alright. The problem is that he seems to be totally muddled at the moment in terms of how he wants the team to play. He needs to decide on that, and fast, if we're to have any chance of finishing top 4 this year.

Pilsbury Doughboy · 03-11-2014 03:33PM

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I'd go for:
Mignolet
Johnson-Skrtl-Lovren-Moreno
Can-Henderson
Coutinho
Sterling
Borini
Balotelli

I'd go for:

...................Mignolet
Manquillo.....Sakho....Lovren.........Moreno
...............Gerrard/Can (SG for 60 then Can on)
.............Hendo.......Lallana.......
.....................Coutinho........

....................Sterling
................................Balotelli

If Sakho was fit I'd play him and drop Skrtel, Manquillo in for Johnson too, he's at least trying unlike going through the motions like GJ.

I think Lallana, Sterling and Coutinho are all wasted when out on the flanks, let the full backs provide width, Gerrard to continue in his normal role with Lallana and Hendo like pitbulls in front of him hunting the ball down, Coutinho at the tip of the diamond with Balo and Sterling ahead, Balotelli obv needs support and Sterling needs to play centrally, so in theory it should suit them, that's my take, I'd like to give it a go.

brevity · 03-11-2014 03:40PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Urgency in the final 3rd and pressing the opposition. It's nearly non existant bar spells here and there

Rodgers might be thinking that our pressing is leaving gaps in midfield and decided that we need to be more compact is order to protect the defense

MR NINE · 03-11-2014 03:48PM

I agree rodgers is having a shocker, i think everyone can agree on that. However I do think he is trying to do things to change our fortunes. I think hes recognised how vulnerable our defence was and is trying to rectify it, knowing we can no longer afford to concede two or three goals a game and still get a result. Our recent failings in attack are partly down to a more cautious approach imo. Hes trying to tighten things up, which is slowly working, were conceding less than we were. However the flip side of this is our complete lack of a threat going forward. The newcastle game was a rare occasion where every single player had a poor performance. Of course a lot of this is down to rodgers; hendo on the left, sterling on the right and balo alone up front werent the greatest decisions. However there were also a lot of sloppy passes and individual mistakes. We wont look that blunt again in attack for a long time imo, I genuinely believe we havent been as bad as that in attack in any other game this season and wont be again. I think rodgers is trying to recreate the formula we had at the start of last season and the end of the prior season, when we were capable of 1-0 wins. The gung ho approach is gone with suarez imo. Unfortunately our team is completely shot of confidence right now, understandably so, and rodgers is bugging out a bit, making strange decisions. I believe sturridges return will give us a huge boost, and he will be a lot more suited to the system rodgers wants to use. However its gonna take time to turn it around, a lot of patience will be required. It should come as no surprise that suarezs departure has hurt us so much, but its certainly a difficult comedown from last season. I dont agree with the one man team claims but the team was definitely built around him and sturridge.

Connavar · 03-11-2014 03:51PM

Pilsbury Doughboy wrote: »

I'd go for:

...................Mignolet
Manquillo.....Sakho....Lovren.........Moreno
...............Gerrard/Can (SG for 60 then Can on)
.............Hendo.......Lallana.......
.....................Coutinho........

....................Sterling
................................Balotelli

If Sakho was fit I'd play him and drop Skrtel, Manquillo in for Johnson too, he's at least trying unlike going through the motions like GJ.

I think Lallana, Sterling and Coutinho are all wasted when out on the flanks, let the full backs provide width, Gerrard to continue in his normal role with Lallana and Hendo like pitbulls in front of him hunting the ball down, Coutinho at the tip of the diamond with Balo and Sterling ahead, Balotelli obv needs support and Sterling needs to play centrally, so in theory it should suit them, that's my take, I'd like to give it a go.

I would not drop johnson for this game. Other than the goal, he did a very good job of marshalling Ronaldo(so much so I remember Ronaldo moving away from that left wing half way through the game)

Hidalgo · 03-11-2014 04:04PM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I'd drop Gerrard for Lucas.

What difference would Lucas have over Gerrard? Both suffer from the same crux, no recovery pace to turn 180 and go with a runner.
On 2 or 3 occasions v Newcastle a Newcastle player sped by Gerrard. Gerrard in turn body checked the Newcastle player and was lucky not to be pulled for obvious frees imo.
How many times has Lucas suffered the same fate with the end result being left for dead or a foul committed.

Pilsbury Doughboy · 03-11-2014 04:05PM

Connavar wrote: »

I would not drop johnson for this game. Other than the goal, he did a very good job of marshalling Ronaldo(so much so I remember Ronaldo moving away from that left wing half way through the game)

I wasn't really focusing on the Madrid game, more just talking about league games in general, I agree that GJ did ok in the last Real game though.

shamrock55 · 03-11-2014 04:06PM

I think we should throw markavic in against madrid, the lad needs games

MR NINE · 03-11-2014 04:06PM

I have to agree with the people criticising our transfer activity. Our business in summer 2013 was fine with me. We didnt spend a lot of money and had to fill a lot of holes in our squad so a few punts were to be expected. Theyve been fairly unsuccesful signings so far admittedly, but with a net spend of about 30m? and over half that on sakho who i refuse to write off after a handful of starts and who could probably recoup the majority of his fee if we were to sell him, I dont think it can be considered a dreadful window, just a bit underwhelming.

Summer 2014 however is a completely different story. I know its far too soon to write players off and categorically judge them, but it doesnt mean we cant hold opinions on the players. Balotelli and lambert for example are two players that I was never too enthused about. Admittedly balotelli was a bit exciting, but he doesnt seem to suit the style of football weve been playing for the past couple years, nor lambert. We were crying out for a pacy, hard working,hard running forward to replace suarez. You cant replace his quality but you can at least try and replace his other attributes.

As for our policy in general, it was an underwhelming window right from the off. Maybe Im a dreamer, but once we had gained cl qualification I was imagining the likes of shaqiri, rakitic, sanchez, javi martinez, jackson martinez, griezmann etc being targetted. Of course some of these might have been unrealistic, and others may have refused our approaches, but this notion that we couldnt afford to pay competitive wages is quite concerning. I could understand taking punts on cheap fees and wages in 2013 when funds were low. In 2014, with cl qualification and 70m from suarez, we should have been able to afford at least one large incoming salary. I didnt have anything against the signings of lallana, lovren, origi, markovic, can etc but I think theyre all signings we could have made without cl to offer. It feels like a missed opportunity to bring in some real quality.

Francie Barrett · 03-11-2014 04:09PM

shamrock55 wrote: »

I think we should throw markavic in against madrid, the lad needs games

That would be like sending a lamb to the slaughter.

Markovic needs to start the next league cup game or an easier PL game to try get him more time on the ball so he can show what he can do as well as improve his confidence.

Hidalgo · 03-11-2014 04:11PM

brevity wrote: »

Rodgers might be thinking that our pressing is leaving gaps in midfield and decided that we need to be more compact is order to protect the defense

Similarly I think thats why he's persisting with 1 up front. 2 strikers =more open midfield =more exposed defence.
All well and good if the abovs helped shore up things at the back buts its remained consistent Fossits circus style defending.

Re the pressing, Lallana is the one that has impressed me the most. His workrate in chasing and harrying has been generally whats desired, yet he's not a regular starter

Francie Barrett · 03-11-2014 04:27PM

MR NINE wrote: »

Maybe Im a dreamer, but once we had gained cl qualification I was imagining the likes of shaqiri, rakitic, sanchez, javi martinez, jackson martinez, griezmann etc being targetted.

Been making the same point myself. We lost a world class player and replaced him with mediocrity.

- Rodgers himself said that Balotelli was a desperation signing.
- Lallana would not make it into a top 4 side and age is not on his side.
- Markovic hasn't showed much at all in his career to justify his fee.
- Lambert was a total head scratcher, but I suppose he was always going to be cheap backup.

For 2 of Balotelli/Lallana/Markovic, we could have had Alexis Sanchez or some other similar proven attacker. The problem for us though, is that FSG don't seem to want to have to shell out the fee and wages upfront for a player. The commonality with all our signings so far is that wages are a massive sticking point, with us seemingly refusing to offer any player more than £80k a week or so.

The board need to realise that the strategy of thinking that you can buy top 4 players for less than your rivals is just not sustainable. Just ask Arsene Wenger, the days of buying unknown foreign talent for buttons has disappeared as the game has gotten more globalized.

brevity · 03-11-2014 04:29PM

Ideally we would have Henderson, Can, Borini and Lallana on the pitch from the off. All these players have energy and the ability to press the opposition...Rodgers game plan at the moment is baffling to me.

It's almost as though he's resigned to letting the opposition take control of the game and plan for us to counter attack. The problem with this is we're too slow in moving the ball and there are not enough players in the opposition half...

Grrr!

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

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