Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

02-11-2014 01:12PM

mosstin wrote: »

In all the pissing and moaning yesterday I recall a poster mentioning Koeman as a potential replacement for Rodgers. You couldn't make this **** up. That's the same Koeman who's having a ten game stretch as good as ours is bad, but it's JUST ten games.
Perhaps it was tongue in cheek but given the knee jerkery on here, I wasn't sure.

Football fans are the most fickle fans in the world.

The match going fans are right behind Rodgers are they are the only ones that matter really. Lose them and you're fcuked. However, it'd take a pretty disasterous season for that to happen.

djPSB · 02-11-2014 01:17PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Football fans are the most fickle fans in the world.

The match going fans are right behind Rodgers are they are the only ones that matter really. Lose them and you're fcuked. However, it'd take a pretty disasterous season for that to happen.

Every manager will have a run where things aren't going too well.

Klopp a perfect example at Dortmund.

JohnDaniels · 02-11-2014 01:23PM

Klopp has the kind of quality in that Dortmund side that our squad can only dream about. Ultimately I'm not sure that Rodgers has built a squad capable of turning this around. Managers generally end up living or dieing based on transfers. Even if bad decisions don't directly kill you, the poor tools you have given yourself will eventually make the job an impossible task even if you are the most gifted coach in the world.

Oranage2 · 02-11-2014 01:25PM

Would a director of football help Liverpool , somebody to make signings?

JohnDaniels · 02-11-2014 01:37PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Would a director of football help Liverpool , somebody to make signings?

We have some kind of transfer committee. Who knows what goes on. I mean we had all that messing with Sahin who the manager clearly didn't sign. It looks very much like Sakho was not a Rodgers buy and he ended up getting his man in Lovren with more control this summer. The buys that you would think were really pushed by him, Lovren, Allen, Borini etc have generally been average. I'm not sure though it's helpful to dilute blame and we don't know anyway what has went on so I think you just need to judge the business as a whole and say the buck stops with the manager. He has said on a number of occasions that he won't work directly under a DOF.

Turtyturd · 02-11-2014 01:43PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Would a director of football help Liverpool , somebody to make signings?

Can he score goals?

Gbear · 02-11-2014 01:49PM

djPSB wrote: »

Every manager will have a run where things aren't going too well.

Klopp a perfect example at Dortmund.

Or Rodgers in his first season.

Vicxas · 02-11-2014 01:56PM

My problem is just with how much we've regressed since last season. There's no pace in our team at all.

02-11-2014 01:59PM

djPSB wrote: »

Every manager will have a run where things aren't going too well.

Klopp a perfect example at Dortmund.

That's it.

We are missing the goals from last season and that's about it. Goals conceded is probably at a similar enough level as last season.

Still though, it was obvious we weren't going to score as many as last season so we had to tighten up at the back or sign a top class goalscorer. We did neither.

rob316 · 02-11-2014 02:05PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Would a director of football help Liverpool , somebody to make signings?

In essence this the problem who is signing the players? This transfer committee is the biggest load of bs ever, it should be the manager or a dof that signs the players.

Surely rodgers would have preferred 3 or 4 top class players over 8 mixed level players. Sure we needed numbers but there is alot to be said for having 3 players massively contributing over 8 with only average input.

mada999 · 02-11-2014 02:12PM

Demosthenese wrote: »

True ... team have sussed us out since Villa showed them how to do it time and time again. Block the midfield. Stop Gerard on the ball and leave Skrtel and Lovren on the ball as much as they like.

... so simple but effective. We are not the first team to have this done to us so need to counteract it. Doesn't matter though about 3-5-2 4-1-2-1 etc though if we cant earn our right in the game. No aggression no tempo is unacceptable at this level. The absolute minimum we should expect from a game like this is 100% effort. Can any player say they gave that today!

midfield is brutal, exact same as England in the WC.. too predictable...no movement, no pass and move at all...too static...

1 up front does not work at all

shíte signings in the summer as well... so far anyway.. Last summer was the chance to build upon a good team by buying proven players... but we went out and gambled on potential

Hangballlouie · 02-11-2014 03:09PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Football fans are the most fickle fans in the world.

The match going fans are right behind Rodgers are they are the only ones that matter really. Lose them and you're fcuked. However, it'd take a pretty disasterous season for that to happen.

As you would well know pal, that is changing.

JohnDaniels · 02-11-2014 03:13PM

Good article by Andy Heaton - http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2014/11/time-cut-bull****-fight-battles-pitch/?wt=5

Boards doesn't seem to like one of the words in the link but it's the article titled 'Time to cut.......'

Chucky the tree · 02-11-2014 03:24PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

brave prediction considering liverpool have sacked 2 managers over the past 4 years after the club finished 7th and 8th and neither of them had spent the kind of money during the summer rodgers has.

Nothing brave about it really. If Kenny finished second the previous season he wouldn't have been sacked either.

Mr Alan wrote: »

See below post....

Plus there is nothing "moneyball" about signings like Lovren, Mignolet, Sakho, Lallana, Markovic, Allen, Aspas.

They're actually nothing like "money ball" signings...they're players signed for fees that even if they're a relative success at Liverpool, they'll never be worth as much as when we bought them.

It's FSG version of money ball. They don't look at just the transfer fee because that really makes no sense. They look at the transfer fee and the wages over the course of the contract.

smileyj1987 · 02-11-2014 03:25PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Football fans are the most fickle fans in the world.

The match going fans are right behind Rodgers are they are the only ones that matter really. Lose them and you're fcuked. However, it'd take a pretty disasterous season for that to happen.

In fairness it took a few months for them to turn on Roy so BR does have time on his side !!!

Harry Palmr · 02-11-2014 04:23PM

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Good article by Andy Heaton - http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2014/11/time-cut-bull****-fight-battles-pitch/?wt=5

Boards doesn't seem to like one of the words in the link but it's the article titled 'Time to cut.......'

That article seems to have been removed, there is a link but it opens a different article.

edit got it.

Liverpool somehow still ahead of Man Utd, City were a bit rubbish. Its a terrible league!

hadepsx · 02-11-2014 04:24PM

...

SuperTortoise · 02-11-2014 04:30PM

The thing that's most concerning for me in the games we've played up to now is the lack of pressing and closing down when we don't have possession, that was a crucial part of our game last season that urgency to win the ball back and counter with pace.
Has Rodgers instructed the players to not do this because of the extra workload of games this season? If so that needs to change or we could be playing for nothing as early as Christmas IMO.

Chucky the tree · 02-11-2014 04:35PM

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Even if you want to stay away from reactionary responses to the current run of form due to a belief in the manager I think it's almost impossible for anyone to defend the transfer activity. When you start to examine the squad which Rodgers has built it looks very ordinary. How many of the players that have been brought in look capable of going on to play for one of the big two in Spain? Sturridge is the only one. I ask that because everyone keeps saying we are buying potential but how many of the players bought are just decent footballers whose potential is what they are now showing at Liverpool. No matter how much the likes of Allen, Lovren, Borini etc improve, they have a ceiling which everyone can see watching them. They are never going to be world beaters. If you fill your squad with average players then the performance we are watching is what will follow.

Shankly once said that you need eight players to carry the piano and three to play it. Last season we had two of the best players in the world hammering out the music supplemented by Sterling and others. Without them this season we have no one playing the music. Worst of all though I don't even think the guys Rodgers has assembled to carry the piano are that good. They got bailed out lots last season because the three were so good. Mignolet is not good enough, Lovren is terrible. Even looking at the starting midfield options, will any of them reach the kind of level that would interest the top two in Spain. At the moment we have lots of goodto decent player mixed with some players who are not good enough and never will be mixed with very few potentially world class players.

It is that lack of top level talent that is most worrying. Benitez at this stage had bought Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Agger, Aurelio etc. Players that you could see had very high ceilings. In a way it's understandable how we have ended up in this position as we very quickly had to fill a very thin squad with lots of players. The squad is now fairly decent but it completely lacks the really top level talent needed within the first eleven.

Coutinho looks like he has the potential to be a very good player. Bit of a contradiction in the bolded parts? I think in terms of depth our squad is a good as it has been in a long time but as you say it lacks that top level talent.

joe123 · 02-11-2014 04:37PM

Anyone that is calling for Rodgers to be sacked on the 2nd November, while our main striker has missed the last two months, needs a serious dose of cop the **** on.

Its crazy how quickly the supporters forget. Knee jerkery of the highest order. I am sure there will be calls for Koeman to get the job. :rolleyes:

02-11-2014 04:41PM

joe123 wrote: »

Anyone that is calling for Rodgers to be sacked on the 2nd November, while our main striker has missed the last two months, needs a serious dose of cop the **** on.

Its crazy how quickly the supporters forget. Knee jerkery of the highest order. I am sure there will be calls for Koeman to get the job. :rolleyes:

Already done afaik :pac:

huey1975 · 02-11-2014 04:45PM

We thought we had stripped southampton of anything worth having, and then they produce koeman and pelle

Vicxas · 02-11-2014 04:46PM

huey1975 wrote: »

We thought we had stripped southampton of anything worth having, and then they produce koeman and pelle

I will wait until the second half of the season to judge anything, we all know second half form can be hard to hit

Utopia Parkway · 02-11-2014 04:55PM

huey1975 wrote: »

We thought we had stripped southampton of anything worth having, and then they produce koeman and pelle

In fairness Southampton were flying at this time last year as well and eventually fell away. Always better to judge over the course of the season.

Mr Alan · 02-11-2014 04:55PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's FSG version of money ball. They don't look at just the transfer fee because that really makes no sense. They look at the transfer fee and the wages over the course of the contract.

Nonsense. You think these players are on peanuts.

Our transfer activity the last couple of years has been truly horrendous. There is absolutely no justifying or defending it in any way.

JohnDaniels · 02-11-2014 05:01PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Coutinho looks like he has the potential to be a very good player. Bit of a contradiction in the bolded parts? I think in terms of depth our squad is a good as it has been in a long time but as you say it lacks that top level talent.

Not really. What I meant is that the squad is quite ordinary but that isn't a bad thing if you have it supplemented with some real top level talent. We have loads of piano carriers and no one to play it. If you look at the tiny squad we had last season and the ratio of top level players within it to potential or just solid good players it's quite high. We have increased the squad hugely but that ratio is now very low. Not only did we lose Suarez and not directly replace him but we increased the numbers without really adding any top level players. How does Rodgers fix that? I very much doubt FSG after the money he has spent will fork out for a couple of marquee signings.

marklazarcovic · 02-11-2014 05:01PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nonsense. You think these players are on peanuts.

Our transfer activity the last couple of years has been truly horrendous. There is absolutely no justifying or defending it in any way.

the thing alan,that a lot forget is that you can only sign players that are willing to sign for you,signing mercenary players we just cant afford,so we try another way.

its prob the hardest way with any club of ambition,not defending the signings by any stretch,just pointing out thats its not a simple as your maybe making out... i.e .. sign better players.. well ya,if they will sign.

Chucky the tree · 02-11-2014 05:09PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nonsense. You think these players are on peanuts.

Our transfer activity the last couple of years has been truly horrendous. There is absolutely no justifying or defending it in any way.

They are compared to world class player. Lallana, Lovern, Sakho, Manquilo and Markovic probably equal the same yearly cost in wages as Di Maria for example.

LiamoSail · 02-11-2014 05:11PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nonsense. You think these players are on peanuts.

Our transfer activity the last couple of years has been truly horrendous. There is absolutely no justifying or defending it in any way.

Our transfer spending over the last couple of years has been nothing but consistent with what it was before that. We've always been ****e in the market. From Collymore to Crouch to Carroll to now. There's always been exceptions; Torres, Suarez, Alonso, Hyypia etc, but by and large, we're just doing what we normally do in the market

Chucky the tree · 02-11-2014 05:11PM

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Not really. What I meant is that the squad is quite ordinary but that isn't a bad thing if you have it supplemented with some real top level talent. We have loads of piano carriers and no one to play it. If you look at the tiny squad we had last season and the ratio of top level players within it to potential or just solid good players it's quite high. We have increased the squad hugely but that ratio is now very low. Not only did we lose Suarez and not directly replace him but we increased the numbers without really adding any top level players. How does Rodgers fix that? I very much doubt FSG after the money he has spent will fork out for a couple of marquee signings.

It's not like FSG just gave him £100m+ and told him to spend it however he wants.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

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