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The Origin of Specious Nonsense. Twelve years on. Still going. Answer soon.

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Comments

  • #1952
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    legspin wrote: »
    Just another re-hash of 'Science can't explain everything therefore God'. Petty, ignorant self-serving nonsense.

    D-
    must try harder
    The exact same can be said about those who claim that science can explain all physical phenomena (and especially life) via natural i.e non-intelligent processes, simply because they want to prevent any scientific investigation that might result in scientific proof that God exists and created us.

    I wouldn't use the above personally offensive words to describe such people, however ... I'd use the word 'mistaken' instead.


  • #1953
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Must have missed that part.
    ... I guess, we both await oldrnwisr's reply with bated breath, then.:)


  • #1954
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,044 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... I guess, we both await oldrnwisr's reply with bated breath then.:)

    I really doubt he will post evidence for creationism.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1955
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    I really doubt he will post evidence for creationism.
    If he can't invalidate the evidence for ID ... it will be pretty much the same thing ... according to some Evolutionists (who equate ID with Creationism).:)

    ... although Prof Dawkins isn't one of those who equates ID with Creationism ... and he had these positive words for ID ... when he talked about it potentially having an 'Alien' origin (as distinct from a Divine origin) ... he even admitted to the possibility of a 'signature' of some sort of designer being found within the details of biochemistry or molecular biology
    ... so 'no pressure' oldrnwisr ... even Prof Dawkins thinks there might be something to what I posted about ID ... and evidence for ID isn't necessarily evidence for God :-



  • #1956
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,044 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    If he can't invalidate the evidence for ID ... it will be pretty much the same thing ... according to Evolutionists (who equate ID with Creationism).:)
    You've yet post evidence for the account in Genesis.

    ... although Prof Dawkins had these positive words for ID ... when he talked about it potentially having an 'Alien' origin (as distinct from a Divine origin):-


    That's entirely different from the supernatural ID you support. Bit dishonest to suggest he has positive stuff to say about creationism-flavour ID.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • #1957
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    You've yet post evidence for the account in Genesis.


    That's entirely different from the supernatural ID you support. Bit dishonest to suggest he has positive stuff to say about creationism-flavour ID.
    Scientifically, all we can say is that life had an intelligent author.

    The identity of the author or authors isn't known ... but an intelligent authorship for life requires a fundamental and radical departure from the 'blind natural forces did it' claims of the classical Darwinian Evolution hypothesis and its follow-on Modern Evolutionary Synthesis.
    ... and that is a really big deal scientifically ... such radical shifts in understanding are very rare events ... and their discoverers are usually recipients of Nobel Prizes.
    Darwin made the last fundamental shift in our understanding of life (and I have no difficulty in giving himself and Wallace full credit for it and recognising that aspects such as NS will continue to be useful in many important practical ways of significant to science and Humanity) ... but ID is 'the next big thing' in Biology.

    Its akin to the Newtonian / Relativity shift in Physics ... Newtonian physics continues to have very significant applications in our day to day existence ... but Relativity and particle physics do not behave in accordance with Newtonian laws.
    SW wrote: »
    Bit dishonest to suggest he (Prof Dawkins) has positive stuff to say about creationism-flavour ID.
    I said the opposite, in fact.

    Prof Dawkins isn't one of those who equates ID with Creationism - and I also made it clear that Prof Dawkins was talking about an Alien-type authorship for ID as distinct from a Divine authorship.


  • #1958
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,044 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    Scientifically, all we can say is that life had an intelligent author.

    The identity of the author or authors isn't known ... but an intelligent authorship for life requires a fundamental and radical departure from the 'blind natural forces did it' claims of the classical Darwinian Evolution hypothesis and its follow-on Modern Evolutionary Synthesis.

    No, we can't. Science hasn't proven that aliens created mankind. it's a wild claim to state otherwise.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1959
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    No, we can't. Science hasn't proven that aliens created mankind. it's a wild claim to state otherwise.
    You are correct, all that science has proven is that life had an intelligent authorship ... and life proceeds today under the interaction of NS and pre-existing genetic diversity (something that Darwin and Wallace deservedly get credit for discovering).

    All Prof Dawkins has done was to speculate on who/what the author might be ... and that is quite legitimate.

    Some day I must have a pint with that man ... I have read all his books and I admire his questioning, incisive and intelligent mind.

    Of course he may not drink ... and may be too busy / may not want to meet me ... and I'll understand if that is the case as well.


  • #1960
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,044 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »

    I said the opposite, in fact.

    I said that Prof Dawkins isn't one of those who equates ID with Creationism - and I also made it clear that Prof Dawkins was talking about an Alien-type authorship for ID as distinct from a Divine authorship.

    I'd be more likely to accept your explanation if every post of yours wasn't signed with a Dawkins quote that shows otherwise.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1961
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,044 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    You are correct, all science has proven is that it had an intelligent authorship.
    All myself and Prof Dawkins have done was to speculate on who/what the author might be.

    Wrong again. Unless you can link to a news article confirming mankind was created by aliens.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • #1962
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    Wrong again. Unless you can link to a news article confirming mankind was created by aliens.
    Neither myself nor Prof Dawkins claims that we were created by Aliens.
    ... its just one possible hypothesis ... and I believe in the God hypothesis myself.


  • #1963
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    I'd be more likely to accept your explanation if every post of yours wasn't signed with a Dawkins quote that shows otherwise.
    How does the quotes in my sig show otherwise.

    I quote Prof Dawkins because I admire the man ... I don't believe in his Atheism ... but then again, he doesn't believe in my Creationism.
    ... but none of this prevents us from having 'a mutual admiration society' ... or just me admiring him ... even if he decides to not return the compliment.:)

    One very positive thing Prof Dawkins has done is to strip away a lot of 'cobwebs and fuzzy thinking' within churches about the Christian Faith ... and his challenging questions are something I welcome. If he didn't ask them ... somebody else probably would anyway.

    He is also a gentleman to his finger-tips ... and he engages in debate in a forthright and civil manner that makes it a pleasure to watch him in action ...
    ... even when I disagree with what he has to say ... I admire how he says it..


  • #1964
    Fear123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Fear123


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    My mate got really high once and had a full blown conversation with someone who wasn't there.
    My grandmother wasnot an alchol drinker, she lived in a house that was built on a grave yard. Many people around her have seen such things. For example, Once they bought a flowers, the flower didnt grow in that house and they had a dog with them that started barking in night. It is said animal like goat/dogs they can smell the presence of supernatural before them. There are explainable things and event in this world. Even science can't explain. My uncle living in that house, he became mad. They went to every doctor but didnt get cure.

    All worlds are mortal but they connected with somekind of supernatural phenomena


  • #1965
    Fear123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Fear123


    legspin wrote: »
    Just another re-hash of 'Science can't explain everything therefore God'. Petty, ignorant self-serving nonsense.

    D-
    must try harder

    I am not saying, my quotes proves that there is supernatural god but it opens new dimensions there might be a supernatural civilization, so fast and so old, is controling us. They are so advance in the field of science now living in some other dimension. They can see us we cant because of us poor science. We need some kind supernatural science to track it down. We need supernatural senses and science to get to it.. You are amazed, I have used the term supernatural sences and science.... We with our natural senses, can experience the presence of supernatural.

    Think outside box of god :)


  • #1966
    Fear123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Fear123


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    The point was that you can't claim an individual anecdote is anything even remotely close to evidence, particularly when the claims are so, well, out there.

    A flower didn't grow? And the immediate decision was ghosts/god/fairys/whatever supernatural entity you like was to blame? Could the plant maybe have been damaged on the way to the house? Perhaps the environment didn't suit it. A dog barking in the night is hardly unusual either. All of the proof you're putting forward could be explained much easier by natural causes. Why are you taking supernatural causes as the default explanation?
    Doctor, i am giving you the summary, my grand mother grew many kind flowers and plants they didnt grow, became sick and pale, The house was wide. The natural science tells that flower should grow in that house, but didnt grow. No one knew or ever explained. What was going behind it..They also have a goat, goat also did the same thing, it cried in the night. My uncle always remain sick and my grand mother saw strange things.

    When my grand mother left that house, another family settled down there.. They also left that house. The house was haunted. There are many things in this world that science cant explain.

    Evolution could be a process controlled billion of years by some kind of supernatural thing.


  • #1967
    legspin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    Fear123 wrote: »
    I am not saying, my quotes proves that there is supernatural god but it opens new dimensions there might be a supernatural civilization, so fast and so old, is controling us. They are so advance in the field of science now living in some other dimension. They can see us we cant because of us poor science. We need some kind supernatural science to track it down. We need supernatural senses and science to get to it.. You are amazed, I have used the term supernatural sences and science.... We with our natural senses, can experience the presence of supernatural.

    Think outside box of god :)

    There is no supernatural, there is only nature we do not understand yet.
    Anything else is wishful thinking.
    And the chances are, if and when we figure it out, there is an explanation that rules out anything related to the wishful thinking.


  • #1968
    Fear123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Fear123


    doc, your science I have seen its limits. It can explain only natural things but now explain what i am telling you. Do you believe in supernatural things. Leave gods..Things like evil spirits, ghost and black magic. What is black magic or voodo...


  • #1969
    Fear123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Fear123


    legspin wrote: »
    There is no supernatural, there is only nature we do not understand yet.
    Anything else is wishful thinking.
    And the chances are, if and when we figure it out, there is an explanation that rules out anything related to the wishful thinking.

    There are no chances that science can explain supernatural. Because our science is material and we are becoming more and more material with passage of time. You need to experience supernatrual things legspin


  • #1970
    Fear123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Fear123


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Why is it these people who have made great breakthroughs destroying our scientific understanding always seem to have such broken English?
    doc, it is poetry, you can create many meaning and create so many natural and supernatural explanation. You have to think and experience against the customs. Create your own thinking and world. See and experience unexplainable things


  • #1971
    Squeedily Spooch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Squeedily Spooch


    Fear123 wrote: »
    doc, it is poetry, you can create many meaning and create so many natural and supernatural explanation. You have to think and experience against the customs. Create your own thinking and world. See and experience unexplainable things

    Take lots of drugs you mean.


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  • #1972
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,044 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    Neither myself nor Prof Dawkins claims that we were created by Aliens.
    ... its just one possible hypothesis ... and I believe in the God hypothesis myself.

    You said science has proven intelligent design. You also said that supernatural explanations are excluded from science, ergo aliens did it.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1973
    Squeedily Spooch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Squeedily Spooch


    J C wrote: »

    I am a scientist, but in a way it doesn't really matter. If I am not a scientist, is it not even more remarkable that I can present the scientific evidence for ID and defend it comprehensively against all comers, including hundreds of well-qualified scientists, on this and other threads on the Boards?

    Except when people refute it and you ignore it you mean. And you still haven't presented any evidence, except nonsense that "science doesn't allow". Are theist scientists who agree with evolution just wrong then? all of them? Evolution actually has evidence.


  • #1974
    Fear123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Fear123


    Squeedily Spooch wrote: »
    Take lots of drugs you mean.

    People who experience supernatural things, they dont take drug, they mediate. There are people, funny people in this world who take natural science to explain supernatural. How fool they have been. Natural science see only material things. Supernatural things are seen by experience and say there are chances that natural science can explain supernatural some day. What a fools paradise


  • #1975
    legspin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    Fear123 wrote: »
    There are no chances that science can explain supernatural. Because our science is material and we are becoming more and more material with passage of time. You need to experience supernatrual things legspin

    Oh for fúcks sake. Try a spell on the ignore list and while you're there read everything Oldrnwisr has posted in this thread and it's previous equally horrible incarnation.

    'Bye.


  • #1976
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Mod:

    ABC, it's easy, Fear 123 isn't going to be posting here for a while (possibly ever)


  • #1977
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,157 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Pal, don't waste your time on that one. If he has a degree he found it in a packet of tayto salt and vinegar.

    Don't be so harsh, he needed to collect 10 crisp packets for his degree of Billy Bob McNASCAR University! :pac:


  • #1978
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    You said science has proven intelligent design. You also said that supernatural explanations are excluded from science, ergo aliens did it.
    The author of the information is unknown.


  • #1979
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Squeedily Spooch wrote: »
    Except when people refute it and you ignore it you mean. And you still haven't presented any evidence, except nonsense that "science doesn't allow". Are theist scientists who agree with evolution just wrong then? all of them? Evolution actually has evidence.
    NS acting on existing genetic diversity is well founded evidentially ... its the source of the genetic diversity that's at issue.


  • #1980
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,044 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    The author of the information is unknown.

    So did the aliens create God, or vice versa?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • #1981
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    SW wrote: »
    So did the aliens create God, or vice versa?
    The author is scientifically unknown.


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