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Price Changes FPL 14/15 **Mod warning 1st post**

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  • #1022
    Shedite27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,519 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Bleating Lamb wrote: »
    Tbh I don't think I am the only reasonably regular player who's just a bit peed off and bored with the game this year,in last few yrs there was the added element of skill of watching potential price rises and falls and paying due heed and acting on them,this yr the price sites are very inconsistent so I for one have stopped looking at them...which is effecting my placing (not great...just inside top 100k).
    But that was the reason they removed the code, watching price changes was never meant to be part of the game. If we were supposed to do that, it would have been on the official website. A lot of players didn't know about those websites (obviously forum users did).

    I see the price change websites as a cheat of sorts, which we all used for a few years, they've since taken that away so that everyone is on the same page.


  • #1023
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,244 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Bleating Lamb wrote: »
    Tbh I don't think I am the only reasonably regular player who's just a bit peed off and bored with the game this year,in last few yrs there was the added element of skill of watching potential price rises and falls and paying due heed and acting on them,this yr the price sites are very inconsistent so I for one have stopped looking at them...which is effecting my placing (not great...just inside top 100k).

    These sites don't need to be used to be successful. We can all pretty much tell what players will rise after a weekend anyway.

    After 16 points Sanchez was always going to be highly transferred in. That's why I had a look straight away Saturday to see if I could fit him in.


  • #1024
    OneColdHand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,474 ✭✭✭OneColdHand


    Bleating Lamb wrote: »
    Tbh I don't think I am the only reasonably regular player who's just a bit peed off and bored with the game this year,in last few yrs there was the added element of skill of watching potential price rises and falls and paying due heed and acting on them,this yr the price sites are very inconsistent so I for one have stopped looking at them...which is effecting my placing (not great...just inside top 100k).

    They might not be 100% accurate (Sanchez last night for example). But there is still a big advantage to using them, imo. For example I switched Costa out for Pelle, last Thursday (I think) and that saved me 0.2m over making it on Friday/Sat morning.


  • #1025
    iroced
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭iroced


    Shedite27 wrote: »
    But that was the reason they removed the code, watching price changes was never meant to be part of the game. If we were supposed to do that, it would have been on the official website.

    Well we don't really know why they removed the key info that predictions sites were using, do we?

    I'd actually really like an official explanation for why we can't have this info. What's the big deal for them? Is the game really that more interesting this year with these chaotic price changes than it was the years before?
    In fairness the main change I see is people getting forced to transfer super early (even from the Saturday sometimes) to be sure they'd not be caught off by price change. Do you really see that as an improvement to the game?


    Shedite27 wrote: »
    I see the price change websites as a cheat of sorts, which we all used for a few years, they've since taken that away so that everyone is on the same page.
    Everyone doesn't necessary have to be on the same page. If they really wanted that to happen they'd just remove price changes. Simple as that.

    If you spend time on building your team, searching for info about the game, trying to exploit every little piece of additional knowledge you can gather, etc... why should you be on the same page than the one who just logs on from time to time, doesn't know how the game really works and most importantly barely cares for it. We're not playing the lotto are we?

    Lemlin wrote: »
    These sites don't need to be used to be successful. We can all pretty much tell what players will rise after a weekend anyway.

    After 16 points Sanchez was always going to be highly transferred in. That's why I had a look straight away Saturday to see if I could fit him in.

    Yes. But the fact we don't have any clue on the real timing of the price changes anymore makes a huge difference.

    Let's take an example. Let's assume you could have transfered Sanchez in on Saturday. Think you mentionned Sterling to make his way out for him. Let's say you did it. Sanchez didn't rise between Saturday and Sunday. Imagine if ADM or Fabregas got badly injured in yesterday's game... You'd be forced into a 4 pts hit or losing value on a popular player.

    This situation was impossible to happen last year because you knew about price changes timing and could make your decision with that knowledge. This year you have to guess and to play blind. Yeah. Guess. Blind. :rolleyes:.


  • #1026
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,244 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    iroced wrote: »
    Yes. But the fact we don't have any clue on the real timing of the price changes anymore makes a huge difference.

    Let's take an example. Let's assume you could have transfered Sanchez in on Saturday. Think you mentionned Sterling to make his way out for him. Let's say you did it. Sanchez didn't rise between Saturday and Sunday. Imagine if ADM or Fabregas got badly injured in yesterday's game... You'd be forced into a 4 pts hit or losing value on a popular player.

    This situation was impossible to happen last year because you knew about price changes timing and could make your decision with that knowledge. This year you have to guess and to play blind. Yeah. Guess. Blind. :rolleyes:.

    I don't think having price rising sites makes a difference to the above example. Transferring Sterling out Saturday with games still due on Sunday is a risk no matter what.

    Sure Sterling could get injured himself in training this week resulting in the -4. Early transfers are a risk people take, transfer rises or not.

    The reverse could also happen. Last year I transferred Aguero in on a Wednesday night because he was due to go up. On Friday Pellegrini announced he was injured so having the price rise info actually cost me 4 points!

    I actually got my best result in the game when I didn't look at any price rise sites 3 years ago and played the game "blind" as you put it.

    Therefore I always stick to the opinion that these sites are not essential to the game.


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  • #1027
    Mr.Prodston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,305 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Prodston


    There's no skill involved in checking the price rises. Some dedication, but no skill.

    I don't see it making any real difference to the game whatsoever. They're still somewhat accurate in gauging rises and drops if not the the day then roughly. The skill then comes in using experience and logic to get a more accurate timing on rises. This Fantasy Football Fix seem to be getting close now too anyway. I'm enjoying not being a slave to checking every night and agonizing over somebody at 99%.

    Players who do well will rise, and those who don't will fall. There is far more skill the way they have it set up now really. It's not an exact science which I guess is the problem some have. I'd like to think I'm a more intuitive player (not always a good one though) than a stats based one so perhaps that's why it doesn't bother me too much. Adapting to situations is an important part of the game.


  • #1028
    8-10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,153 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    Sanchez scored 16pts and his price rose....I don't see what the big shock is? regardless of 3rd party price sites saying it or not, he was always going to rise early this week and could possibly rise twice I reckon. Same as Aguero last week. This talk of being blind and clueless grates me a little.


  • #1029
    PARlance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,081 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    TotalFPL (who I just use for NTIs) have listed Sanchez as protected....
    That's a balls if so, no chance of making a quick 0.1 on him if that's the case.


  • #1030
    auldgranny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭auldgranny


    PARlance wrote: »
    TotalFPL (who I just use for NTIs) have listed Sanchez as protected....
    That's a balls if so, no chance of making a quick 0.1 on him if that's the case.

    Why are players protected?


  • #1031
    wonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,679 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    PARlance wrote: »
    TotalFPL (who I just use for NTIs) have listed Sanchez as protected....
    That's a balls if so, no chance of making a quick 0.1 on him if that's the case.

    It happened before. He's not protected. Why would he be:confused:

    Do they get the NTI's right?

    They have Mane, Valencia, Eriksen, Monreal, Lallana, Cork, Hazard, Ameobi, Obertan, Brunt etc as protected.

    Wouldn't trust it at all.


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  • #1032
    F1ngers
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭F1ngers


    PARlance wrote: »
    TotalFPL (who I just use for NTIs) have listed Sanchez as protected....
    That's a balls if so, no chance of making a quick 0.1 on him if that's the case.

    You believed TotalFPL that he was protected?
    You should have verified this info on the official site.

    Don't rely on only one site for info.


  • #1033
    wonski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,679 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    I think every time they misjudge rise or drop of a player it changes to protected on their site. Seen it before. Not reliable at all tbh.

    I wouldn't even trust NTI's or any other info they give tbh.


  • #1034
    Shedite27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,519 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    iroced wrote: »
    In fairness the main change I see is people getting forced to transfer super early (even from the Saturday sometimes) to be sure they'd not be caught off by price change. Do you really see that as an improvement to the game?
    Nobody is forced into making changed super early, over eager manager jumping on the player of the day feel they are forced, chances are if they waited till Thurs/Fri they'd make better decisions. It's a trade off and a key part of the game
    iroced wrote: »
    Everyone doesn't necessary have to be on the same page. If they really wanted that to happen they'd just remove price changes. Simple as that.

    If you spend time on building your team, searching for info about the game, trying to exploit every little piece of additional knowledge you can gather, etc... why should you be on the same page than the one who just logs on from time to time, doesn't know how the game really works and most importantly barely cares for it.
    You've answered your own question there - game should be about reading match reports, watching games, listening to press conferences, NOT just logging onto a website once a day and see who's popular or not. Price Change websites are a time saver for people who don't follow the real news.
    iroced wrote: »
    Let's take an example. Let's assume you could have transfered Sanchez in on Saturday. Sanchez didn't rise between Saturday and Sunday. Imagine if ADM or Fabregas got badly injured in yesterday's game... You'd be forced into a 4 pts hit or losing value on a popular player.
    I don't see why you keep saying "forced", you are choosing to transfer early. If you can't afford the player when it gets around to making the transfer so be it. We can't all afford all players.


  • #1035
    PARlance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,081 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    F1ngers wrote: »
    You believed TotalFPL that he was protected?
    You should have verified this info on the official site.

    Don't rely on only one site for info.

    No, I've had him for 2 weeks and 29 points... Puts on shades ;)

    I'm not believing it, all I'm saying is that TotalFPL have him listed as protected. Which is quite odd.
    They have been getting their rise/fall projections completely wrong and I can understand that, but to list someone as protected is a whole kind of different wrong.


  • #1036
    PARlance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,081 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    wonski wrote: »
    I think every time they misjudge rise or drop of a player it changes to protected on their site. Seen it before. Not reliable at all tbh.

    I wouldn't even trust NTI's or any other info they give tbh.

    That would make some sense, I think their NTIs are fairly accurate (I've compared their NTIs v the reduction of FPLstats targets and they're in line with each other).

    I still think TotalFPL is useful in the sense that it is probably the easiest to see the daily flow of transfers.
    I pay no heed to their %'s though.


  • #1037
    manual_man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,267 ✭✭✭✭manual_man


    good man Clyne :)


  • #1038
    iroced
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭iroced


    Shedite27 wrote: »
    Nobody is forced into making changed super early, over eager manager jumping on the player of the day feel they are forced, chances are if they waited till Thurs/Fri they'd make better decisions. It's a trade off and a key part of the game.

    You've answered your own question there - game should be about reading match reports, watching games, listening to press conferences, NOT just logging onto a website once a day and see who's popular or not. Price Change websites are a time saver for people who don't follow the real news.

    I don't see why you keep saying "forced", you are choosing to transfer early. If you can't afford the player when it gets around to making the transfer so be it. We can't all afford all players.
    8-10 wrote: »
    Sanchez scored 16pts and his price rose....I don't see what the big shock is? regardless of 3rd party price sites saying it or not, he was always going to rise early this week and could possibly rise twice I reckon. Same as Aguero last week. This talk of being blind and clueless grates me a little.

    I think I'm getting badly misunderstood here. I guess my bad foreigner choice of words...

    Just a few things to be (hopefully) clearer..
    I hardly care as much as it could seem about this whole thing.

    I've just been wondering why we don't have access to the price change info from the very beginning. What's the big deal? Why FPL "authorised" a breach in the system the previous years and not this year? That's the only question I could have been and I could be asking.

    In a way you could wonder what's the point of having a price change system without giving all info about it. When I used the words "blind" "or "clueless" I guess I've just been over-Cartesian. I meant that last year we accurately knew the timing of the price changes while this year we don't. I don't think I said it's a big deal though.

    To be honest I find it a little annoying not to know precisely this info. It "forced" my hand maybe once this year to get a player in early so that I could afford him. That was the meaning of my "forced". Think I said huge difference from last year. Nah was wrong, it's different than last year that's all. Nothing huge at all. Lemlin's counterexample to mine showed it brilliantly.

    Finally we have not to be hypocritical about it like it doesn't matter, it doesn't change anything, etc... when in the meantime everyone is always asking about players rising/dropping.

    And to finish, I'd say that there's one thing which I find is turning out to be a good thing is that players are rising/dropping much slower than last year. The removal of WC transfers from the calculations is certainly an explanation. But it's an overall good thing in my view.


    @8-10: There's no big shock in Sanchez rising, the point was just that the predictions were extremely far from a potential rise. Hence the surprise. No big deal.


  • #1039
    Bleating Lamb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Bleating Lamb


    SlickRic wrote: »
    You could argue there's a different skill this year in not merely looking at websites for all your info, but using instinct.

    To a certain degree I agree with you but bear with me for a min,and that goes for Mr Prodston and all the other people who politely disagreed with my initial post;)
    I would be a player who hasn't a whole pile of time to research each week whose coming into/going out of form (as a lot of other players don't either)...but by same token I like to enjoy the game,and as Iroced pointed out in previous yrs you could use your instinct and common sense to spot which players might add value to your team....this separating you a bit from the very casual players in second half of season as you could have built up a bit more in your team value.
    Whereas this yr you could have a decent well thought out team and still see your team value dropping unexpectedly every now and again which is a bit frustrating.i actually only pop into this forum occasionally this yr compared to last yr and don't go near looking at price prediction sites this yr(as there's no craic with chasing bandwagons this yr)....anyway rant over:)....glad I provoked a debate anyway.


  • #1040
    Ziegler1988
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,747 ✭✭✭Ziegler1988


    Someone on FFS emailed FPL Towers and here's their reply:

    “We believe that providing information on when and by how much the players will change in price would create an opportunity for users to exploit the system to their advantage and the game would become unfair.”

    So it's all to keep the casuals interested, even though they must know people do exploit the 3rd party info


  • #1041
    Lucas Hood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,206 ✭✭✭Lucas Hood


    Bit late but People only become protected after a red flag has been removed.


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  • #1042
    CSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,562 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    Ziegler1988 wrote: »
    Someone on FFS emailed FPL Towers and here's their reply:

    “We believe that providing information on when and by how much the players will change in price would create an opportunity for users to exploit the system to their advantage and the game would become unfair.”

    So it's all to keep the casuals interested, even though they must know people do exploit the 3rd party info
    That is the biggest crock of **** on their part, keep making moves like that to bridge the gap between the serious players and the casual players and very soon you will lose the serious players.


  • #1043
    manual_man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,267 ✭✭✭✭manual_man


    tbh you're either the kind of person that follows price changes or you aren't. there's nothing really to be gained (on anybody's part) by keeping the 'formula' a secret. except maybe that it may f*ck with someone's team who invests a lot of time in the game and may have cash leagues at stake. And regards said formula, it's my hunch that this season the powers at be have been throwing in random rises/falls, or 'anomalies', to spook those that would like to know (with reasonable certainty) who will rise/fall and when - i really don't think there's any other explanation for how rises/falls have gone up to now - and in that sense, i suppose it's working. complete transparency is the way forward in my opinion, at least that way no one can complain if they miss out on a rise/fall when the prediction's come from the horses mouth!


  • #1044
    8-10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,153 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    CSF wrote: »
    That is the biggest crock of **** on their part, keep making moves like that to bridge the gap between the serious players and the casual players and very soon you will lose the serious players.

    That should be the aim if you're looking to maximise participation and website clicks. FPL should do all they can to stop people using totalfpl/fiso/fplstats etc. to be honest I think they're probably not doing enough but in fairness making it harder to understand their price change algorithm seems like a step in the right direction.

    This will mean that casual players should stay competitive throughout the season which is a good thing. The premise of the game is simple; the more points you get, the higher you will rank. The points you get are solely based on player performance in games. You don't get points for price rises, transfers or value. What I actually think they should do is take the NTI information off the site completely. That would stop all the arguments and stop the 3rd parties trying to predict price changes


  • #1045
    OneColdHand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,474 ✭✭✭OneColdHand


    8-10 wrote: »
    That should be the aim if you're looking to maximise participation and website clicks. FPL should do all they can to stop people using totalfpl/fiso/fplstats etc. to be honest I think they're probably not doing enough but in fairness making it harder to understand their price change algorithm seems like a step in the right direction.

    This will mean that casual players should stay competitive throughout the season which is a good thing. The premise of the game is simple; the more points you get, the higher you will rank. The points you get are solely based on player performance in games. You don't get points for price rises, transfers or value. What I actually think they should do is take the NTI information off the site completely. That would stop all the arguments and stop the 3rd parties trying to predict price changes

    In an indirect way you do though. If higher you can build up your team value, the better players you can afford.


  • #1046
    iroced
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭iroced


    Ziegler1988 wrote: »
    Someone on FFS emailed FPL Towers and here's their reply:

    “We believe that providing information on when and by how much the players will change in price would create an opportunity for users to exploit the system to their advantage and the game would become unfair.”

    So it's all to keep the casuals interested, even though they must know people do exploit the 3rd party info

    Cheers for that link. At least I now have the answer to my long term question :pac:.

    Their argument is a bit rubbish though, isn't it? As the guy said in your link how come an information made available to everyone would give people an unfair advantage?



    That said, as annoying, challenging, significant or not this issue may be, I always thought that the main skill to perform in that game is to be able to adapt as quickly as you can and if possible quicker than everyone else. This "issue" is no different.


  • #1047
    manual_man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,267 ✭✭✭✭manual_man


    8-10 wrote: »
    That should be the aim if you're looking to maximise participation and website clicks. FPL should do all they can to stop people using totalfpl/fiso/fplstats etc. to be honest I think they're probably not doing enough but in fairness making it harder to understand their price change algorithm seems like a step in the right direction.

    This will mean that casual players should stay competitive throughout the season which is a good thing. The premise of the game is simple; the more points you get, the higher you will rank. The points you get are solely based on player performance in games. You don't get points for price rises, transfers or value. What I actually think they should do is take the NTI information off the site completely. That would stop all the arguments and stop the 3rd parties trying to predict price changes

    Interesting idea re. taking the NTI data off the site, but in fairness data to back up price rises/falls is pretty essential, without it i think the games' popularity could suffer in a big way. And tbh i think you're over-playing the whole casual players staying competitive thing - price changes still have a pretty big effect in the game... it's just this whole lack of transparency thing that is pretty annoying tbh. As you pointed out it would make more sense for fpl towers to be attracting more traffic to their own website(s) - that makes perfect sense not just in terms of price changes but in general(!). the answer to all this being (whatever the formula may be) to have it completely transparent and available for all to view/analyze via the main site.


  • #1048
    Ziegler1988
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,747 ✭✭✭Ziegler1988


    OneColdHand wrote: »
    In an indirect way you do though. If higher you can build up your team value, the better players you can afford.

    Can be a curse though. People with high team value that could afford Aguero at the end of last season would have been better off not being able to and getting Dzeko instead


  • #1049
    8-10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,153 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    manual_man wrote: »
    Interesting idea re. taking the NTI data off the site, but in fairness data to back up price rises/falls is pretty essential, without it i think the games' popularity could suffer in a big way. And tbh i think you're over-playing the whole casual players staying competitive thing - price changes still have a pretty big effect in the game... it's just this whole lack of transparency thing that is pretty annoying tbh. As you pointed out it would make more sense for fpl towers to be attracting more traffic to their own website(s) - that makes perfect sense not just in terms of price changes but in general(!). the answer to all this being (whatever the formula may be) to have it completely transparent and available for all to view/analyze via the main site.

    That's another way of doing it, yes. But I really don't think it's as big a part of the game as people think.


  • #1050
    qwabercd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭qwabercd


    Ziegler1988 wrote: »
    Can be a curse though. People with high team value that could afford Aguero at the end of last season would have been better off not being able to and getting Dzeko instead

    Well I'm sure you could pull out numerous random examples like that but higher value players will return higher points, and therefore a team with higher value will have an advantage.

    As I've said before though, I think the importance of team value can be overemphasised at times. Also I think the game did become too much about increasing value which sometimes detracted from what really should be the only real aim; scoring points. I kinda prefer this year in a way. A bit of transparency from FPL would've been nice though.


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  • #1051
    CSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,562 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    8-10 wrote: »
    That's another way of doing it, yes. But I really don't think it's as big a part of the game as people think.
    Honestly, it is huge. You just have to look at the FSA Premier League qualifiers from last year, to see that these are the same guys who were in those threads speculating over the chances of a player going up/dropping every week.

    That isn't for a second taking away from the fact that in the end you still have to make the correct decisions in players. That is obviously the number 1 skill required in the game, much more important than having a 110 million team, but the 2 aren't mutually exclusive.


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