ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE

23-10-2014 04:49PM

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Sure we'll send the kids out to work to pay the water charges. Not all houses have 5 working adults. My god.

Exactly not many house have 5 adults hence not many houses will have a water bill of 500 euro.

cajonlardo · 23-10-2014 04:49PM

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Sure we'll send the kids out to work to pay the water charges. Not all houses have 5 working adults. My god.

I was thinking that. I've 2 lads over 20 still in college.

Don't understand how they give the same allowance per house if there is a single adult or several, even when there is a single income. TBh they didn't even make an effort to make this charge anyway fair or equitable.

I've gone to work for nearly 40 years and paid my way. Its getting very close to being a waste of time as its pride rather than wages that keep me going. If I was given the p45 tomorrow I can't see how it would be financially worse

23-10-2014 04:51PM

cajonlardo wrote: »

I was thinking that. I've 2 lads over 20 still in college.

Just don't declare them as living there, people who own their own home really only need declare themselves and possibly their husband/wife if they are married.

People in rented accommodation only need declare the number of names on the lease.

Little CuChulainn · 23-10-2014 04:51PM

gandalf wrote: »

As a taxpayer I have been paying for water every day I have worked.

In 2016 the allowances will expire and I would hazard to guess that if this system is allowed to pass the charge will go up quite a bit then.

And I base that on absolutely nothing at all

gandalf · 23-10-2014 04:55PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

And I base that on absolutely nothing at all

???

cajonlardo · 23-10-2014 04:57PM

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

Just don't declare them as living there, people who own their own home really only need declare themselves and possibly their husband/wife if they are married.

People in rented accommodation only need declare the number of names on the lease.

How will not declaring them help?

There are 4 adults here and all use water. 2 doors up a single lady will get the exact same free allowance as they are offering us.Then they wonder why people are not interested?

23-10-2014 04:59PM

cajonlardo wrote: »

How will not declaring them help?

There are 4 adults here and all use water. 2 doors up a single lady will get the exact same free allowance as they are offering us.Then they wonder why people are not interested?

It will be a flat rate for quite a while I'd imagine and apartments etc will always be a flat rate.

Tony EH · 23-10-2014 05:11PM

listermint wrote: »

If governments started treating citizens as bloody adults and speaking to them out of their mouth and not out of the two sides of their mouth then people would listen.

Now compare to Irish Water

Goal - We actually were never told really what the goal was, it started with 'we must pay for water our infrastructure is broken' then moved to 'we must pay for water its finite resource and we are wasting it conserve conserve' then to 'we have to pay our way there are budget deficits to be tackled'
So with not a sniff of a real goal you are going to confuse people
Plan - Setup an agent of the state, but make sure its semi private because the people will never go for more state employees being paid heavy salaries. This agent must be setup with expertise in this area and have a fully functional billing system to capture and invoice the people
Tendor - Give out contracts to pretty much anyone with no real clarity on the selection process despite numerous seemingly more cost effective contractors bidding more than half of what was decided upon.
Resolution - A semi state private company being paid bonuses with what appears to be zero accountbility to anyone including the PAC. An agent of the state with no real revenue powers that has overspend in its first year. A communications nightmare with a CEO who is quite literally hiding from the media and all around him. A board some of the heads with from the very worst of the Public sector management rejects, numerous failed projects numerous scandals and acres of wasted cash in their wake. The rest as they say is recent history..

Transparency will never happen in politics, because politics is the art of lying. ALL politicians and ALL political parties are liars and organisations of liars.

It's essential to their very being.

When you join a party and become an acting member, you subordinate your opinions to that of the party. Therefore, by default, you become a lair, (unless, of course, all of your opinions happen to coincide with the party line, which is an absolute impossibility of course).

Take the case of Irish Water and it's "goal". The goal is to subtract responsibility for water out of the government's hands and to take away that as a vote factor and to place an essential and lucrative resource into private hands. That is the goal.

Now, quite rightly, the vast, vast majority of people would be against that because of the awful potentials that would have for people in the future.

So, what do the advocates of this goal have to do? Well, they have to make up a lie and keep repeating the lie until they begin to believe it themselves. The essential smokescreen has to be maintained.

Unfortunately, for Fine Gael, Irish Water has been handled SO ineptly that the lie didn't work and people have seen Irish Water for what it truly is, a quango that's based on the old "jobs for the boys" corruption model that FG promised to end. Another lie, if you will.

Lies are essential to politics which is why the population, that a political party is custodian of at a particular time, WILL NEVER be told the full truth about anything, because the full disclosed truth simply isn't conducive to holding onto power.

Which is, at the end of the day, the bottom line for a political party.

Banjo String · 23-10-2014 05:49PM

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

Just don't declare them as living there , people who own their own home really only need declare themselves and possibly their husband/wife if they are married.

People in rented accommodation only need declare the number of names on the lease.

Putting down false or misleading information is an offence.

Just ask Little CuChulainn there all about it.

SaveOurLyric · 23-10-2014 06:18PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Transparency will never happen in politics, because politics is the art of lying. ALL politicians and ALL political parties are liars and organisations of liars.

It's essential to their very being.

This is true. Buts its in a good cause and generally well motivated.

Average Joe cant handle the truth, or be trusted to understand or make the right decision. The wider population has no capability to see the big picture and rarely sees beyond its own short term self interest. So politicians are obliged to fudge, spin, and lie in order to do the right thing. It is indeed like dealing with children. Until Ireland grows up, it cannot be expected to be treated as a reasonable, responsible country. Introduce usage based payement for a utility : tantrum.

Going Forward · 23-10-2014 06:39PM

gandalf wrote: »

As a taxpayer I have been paying for water every day I have worked.

In 2016 the allowances will expire and I would hazard to guess that if this system is allowed to pass the charge will go up quite a bit then.

Charges will not fall, if they do it will be temporary.

Charges at present are purely introductory, to get you used to paying them.

The actual charges will be in the region of €1000 per household. (€1bn at today's running costs divided by 1 million households.)

The Government and EU policy is full cost recovery of public water services.

It is politically impossible to do this overnight, so a long lead in is required.

Little CuChulainn · 23-10-2014 06:42PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Charges will not fall, if they do it will be temporary.

Charges at present are purely introductory, to get you used to paying them.

The actual charges will be in the region of €1000 per household. (€1bn at today's running costs divided by 1 million households.)

The Government and EU policy is full cost recovery of public water services.

It is politically impossible to do this overnight, so a long lead in is required.

The current running charges are based on a supply efficiency of only 56% so they should really drop pretty rapidly if IW does what its set up to do.

renegademaster · 23-10-2014 06:44PM

Nama and Irish Water!
this morn the Irish people were informed by way of an OIreachtas Finance Committee meeting that NAMA has sold €17.6bn worth of assets, and that they have €14bn worth of assets left to sell, but the chief executive of the largest state owned property portfolio on the planet couldn't tell Stephen Donnelly how much they paid for the assets they've sold so far and instead commented how the only figures they're bothered about in NAMA is how much was sold and how much is left to sell!!

When questioned by Donnelly the CE stated that they gathered a rather large amount of info for the meeting and that Donnelly will have to wait to hear back from him after the meeting. as Donnelly quite rightly pointed out, the CE should have known the single most important figure, as far as the Irish people and the committee charged with the responsibility of holding them to account are concerned, off the top of his head.

watch the 10 minute questioning here, it really is breathtaking how stupid those involved in NAMA think we are.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=889482467758436

Then we read about how IW are being considered for questioning at a Public Accounts Committee meeting and it has suddenly received unsolicited legal advice that it cannot question Irish Water boss John Tierney. How did this specific legal advice suddenly fall out of the sky when nobody at the PAC had sought any advice on the matter.

http://www.thejournal.ie/pac-legal-a...41730-Oct2014/

The hundreds of thousands of Irish people who are currently involved in the growing IW protests across the country are going to be very busy going after all these ridiculous setups designed purposely to protect and enrich the well connected/vulture capitalists/failed developers while the majority of the 4,500,000 of us can go and have a $hite for ourselves, and pay twice to flush it, cos that's just how the system works. well not anymore!!

oceanman · 23-10-2014 07:01PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The current running charges are based on a supply efficiency of only 56% so they should really drop pretty rapidly if IW does what its set up to do.

well its off to a super start anyway!....

Joshua J · 23-10-2014 07:04PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

This is true. Buts its in a good cause and generally well motivated.

Average Joe cant handle the truth, or be trusted to understand or make the right decision. The wider population has no capability to see the big picture and rarely sees beyond its own short term self interest. So politicians are obliged to fudge, spin, and lie in order to do the right thing. It is indeed like dealing with children. Until Ireland grows up, it cannot be expected to be treated as a reasonable, responsible country. Introduce usage based payement for a utility : tantrum.

Naive to think that they do it all for the people and protecting us from ourselves. They need to lie and fudge cause they do things we wouldn't approve of. Maybe your not mature enough, fair enough, but a lot of us are. Truth shall set you free.

Larbre34 · 23-10-2014 07:12PM

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

I understand there are people who will pay more than me and people who are much less able to pay than me. It doesn't change the fact that one way or another these charges are going to happen.

Y'know, the way things are going now, the panic and backtracking, the gathering fury, the momentum and focus of a population bled dry - I'd be willing to bet you the value of a year's worth of water that the charges never happen, or at least are ignored and never enforced by a company that collapses.

john.han · 23-10-2014 07:17PM

Still haven't got my pack, should I bother contacting them?

garp · 23-10-2014 07:18PM

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

I dont want anyone protesting on my behalf.

I don't like paying a lot of things car tax for instance which costs me about 4 or 5 times what the water charge will be, but it has to be paid. I don't like electricity bills or gas bills should I go out and protest about them too?

You do know that part of your car tax is going for the supply of water (Number 29 of 1997, Local Government (Financial Provisions) Act 1997). You do know this don't you?

cajonlardo · 23-10-2014 07:18PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

This is true. Buts its in a good cause and generally well motivated.

Average Joe cant handle the truth, lying crony serving filth that are currently representing them or be trusted fooled into accepting make Enda's cheating lying bollocks the right decision. The wider population has no capability woken at last to see the big picture and rarely sees beyond own F.G's short term self interest. So politicians are obliged to fudge, spin, and lie in order to do the right thing pass off state assets to Dirty Denis and seat their unelected and unemployed failed comrades on state boards. It is indeed like dealing with children criminals. Until Ireland grows stands up, it cannot be expected to be treated as a reasonable, responsible country.

You had several mistakes but its corrected now

listermint · 23-10-2014 07:23PM

Running scared trying to buy back sentiment

http://www.thejournal.ie/water-charges-relief-social-welfare-1742674-Oct2014/

Water charges relief for all. Wooo waves flag

moxin · 23-10-2014 07:24PM

john.han wrote: »

Still haven't got my pack, should I bother contacting them?

Neither did I. I rang them at the start of Oct and they told me it was sent to a "previous address" which could be any of the 5 addresses i've lived in the last 5 years. They promised to send out another pack but failed to do so. I'll probably ring them again next week but don't fancy being on hold for an hour on an 1890 number.

papu · 23-10-2014 07:33PM

This is Hilarious,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSn-9zzMxIU

The density of this lad with the camera.

Pwindedd · 23-10-2014 07:36PM

moxin wrote: »

Neither did I. I rang them at the start of Oct and they told me it was sent to a "previous address" which could be any of the 5 addresses i've lived in the last 5 years. They promised to send out another pack but failed to do so. I'll probably ring them again next week but don't fancy being on hold for an hour on an 1890 number.

I rang them today. Being a tenant in a house I quite like, at a reasonable rate of rent I don't want to go rocking any boats. Got through straight away and they gave me an application no and pin over the phone straight away. Registered online in minutes.

As everyone is going to be issued with a bill anyway, regardless of wether they've registered, if IW are to be believed, then I would like that bill to be as low as possible. If the allowances are not claimed then billing will be higher - does this not increase IWs balance sheet and make them more economically viable on paper at least.

UCDVet · 23-10-2014 07:37PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The current running charges are based on a supply efficiency of only 56% so they should really drop pretty rapidly if IW does what its set up to do.

Hahahahaha. Good one.

tallus · 23-10-2014 07:41PM

listermint wrote: »

Running scared trying to buy back sentiment

http://www.thejournal.ie/water-charges-relief-social-welfare-1742674-Oct2014/

Water charges relief for all. Wooo waves flag

Read this earlier and thought it smacks of desperation.

Going Forward · 23-10-2014 07:45PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The current running charges are based on a supply efficiency of only 56% so they should really drop pretty rapidly if IW does what its set up to do.

Which doesn't look very likely.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/bord-gais-falls-far-short-of-300m-in-savings-pledged-for-irish-water-30146839.html

sjb25 · 23-10-2014 07:47PM

papu wrote: »

This is Hilarious,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSn-9zzMxIU

The density of this lad with the camera.

Sgt fecking legend is his name lol

Banjo String · 23-10-2014 07:52PM

papu wrote: »

This is Hilarious,

The density of this lad with the camera.

Isn't there another thread about protesters (two in fact) ?

That post is but a sad attempt to take this one off topic with a 'all protesters are tick' youtube video tbh.

Iwasfrozen · 23-10-2014 08:07PM

sjb25 wrote: »

Sgt fecking legend is his name lol

I feel sorry for the gardaí, ordinary decent people having to put up with this rubbish.

Jaycornyn · 23-10-2014 08:07PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

"No contract no consent" means sweet FA. The legislation states that if you use the services you are contracting with IW and unless this legislation is struck down by a constitutional challenge, it won't be overruled by the legal equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la I can't hear you".

Ok. I've read that the legislation is in conflict with constitution and EU law. What carries the most power? What overrides what? As i've said I don't know anything about law.

I was under the impression that a contract had to be physically signed before it became binding? If so does this legislation not break laws? I still haven't got a clear answer on this from someone who seems to know what they are on about.

If it is a case that they turn my water to a trickle, what is stopping me from going out and turning it back on?

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ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE