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Convicts who've served their time.

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Comments

  • #62
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »
    People in the public eye who have been convicted or even accused of certain crimes will struggle to get work in their trade of choice. Wont be seeing any of the yewtree guilty anytime soon, Gary glitter struggling to get work as musician I'd imagine, as will Ian watkins. Haven't seen much of Michael Barrymore and he wasn't even convicted.

    Thats nothing to do with the point I made
    Laois6556 wrote: »
    No, I have a problem with rapists going back to a high profile job only a few years after they committed their assault.

    He's served his conviction yet he should be punished again because of your jealousy about the money he can make from his skills? Thats very trivial.


  • #63
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Dempsey wrote: »
    He's served his conviction yet he should be punished again because of your jealousy about the money he can make from his skills? Thats very trivial.

    Is rape very trivial? I don't want him to go back to his high profile job because he's a rapist, not because of the money. I'll ask you aswell, why are you defending a rapist?


  • #64
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,641 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Is rape very trivial? I don't want him to go back to his high profile job because he's a rapist, not because of the money. I'll ask you aswell, why are you defending a rapist?

    Rape has become a very broad spectrum ranging from some of the most minor (if at all) crimes to some of the absolute worst.


  • #65
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    GarIT wrote: »
    If someone is unconscious that's a different story. If someone is too frightened to say anything how would the other person know they are doing anything wrong, if they were threatened or anything that is also a different story.

    It doesn't have to be the word no but is somebody shows no sign of objecting to what you are doing, they cant later claim that they didn't want it. Unless they were in a state where they couldn't consent. It is not possible to get so drunk you cannot give consent.

    From the judge in the case

    The only witnesses say she consented, and the porter in the hotel said she had sounded into it, I don't see a problem with what happened.

    Are you serious?

    Do you seriously, genuinely believe that you could be happily having sex with a person who is frozen with fear and just NOT NOTICE that they're didn't seem to be that into what was happening?

    Do you seriously believe that it is impossible to be so drunk that you cannot realistically consent due to extreme cognitive impairment?

    People around here say that rape culture is not real, that it does not exist at all or at least, not in Ireland.

    This right here is a part of what is meant by rape culture.


  • #66
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    I see the rags are making a big deal out of Rape convict Ched Evans (26) being released from prison and trying to repursue his career as a pro footballer, there's a bunch of social media groups out there putting pressure on Sheffield United not to take him back.

    There used to be a saying that you're square with the house once you do your time, obviously the circumstances of the crime influences people's opinion but I believe that he should allowed to continue his career.


    It's very difficult to comment on individual cases like this, but I certainly wouldn't employ someone who had been convicted of raping someone. I wouldn't particularly care that they'd 'served their time'. I'm hardly so desperate for people with a particular set of skills that I couldn't find someone who hasn't been convicted of rape.

    You're right though, the nature and circumstances of the crime do influence people's opinions, but I would take no heed of the gutter style reporting in tabloid rags or these 'online petitions' either.

    I just think rape is one of those violations of another person where it can be understandable why society would show no forgiveness to the perpetrator, nor should they in my opinion.


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  • #67
    Dozen Wicked Words
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    Dempsey wrote: »
    Thats nothing to do with the point I made.

    I thought you're point was he should be allowed to work in the job he had before his prison sentence? In the same way convicted djs, musicians and presenters should?


  • #68
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    GarIT wrote: »
    Rape has become a very broad spectrum ranging from some of the most minor (if at all) crimes to some of the absolute worst.

    No it hasn't.


  • #69
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Why are you defending a rapist?

    What he was convicted for is irrelevant. He was convicted of a crime, served the sentence, minus remission, in the standard manner and is released. He's now free to do as he pleases. He has a skillset and hes using that to provide himself with a wage.

    His job and his conviction are not linked and hes not prevented from doing the former by the latter. Famous or not, footballer or plumber, the law is the same and hes now free to pursue his choice of career with any company that chooses to hire him. If your a Sheffield Utd fan your free to protest by not buying merchandise or tickets, other than that its not really your business.


    If you've an issue with the laws in the UK, petition to have them changed, but don't go on some moral crusade because its a footballer.


  • #70
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    No it hasn't.

    2 drunk people falling in to bed together and one deciding after that they don't remember it is a long way from a violent rape and shouldn't be in the same bracket.


  • #71
    CaptainInsano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭CaptainInsano


    A lot of information here for some posters who haven't seem to have done much research into this.

    https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans


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  • #72
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    It's very difficult to comment on individual cases like this, but I certainly wouldn't employ someone who had been convicted of raping someone. I wouldn't particularly care that they'd 'served their time'. .

    And that's your choice, but by the same token, the next guy on the list can make the choice to hire them if they want.


  • #73
    Dozen Wicked Words
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    CaptainInsano wrote: »
    A lot of information here for some posters who haven't seem to have done much research into this.

    https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

    Similar to something posted on this very thread, nor just similar in fact, but the very same link.


  • #74
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    What he was convicted for is irrelevant. He was convicted of a crime, served the sentence, minus remission, in the standard manner and is released. He's now free to do as he pleases. He has a skillset and hes using that to provide himself with a wage.

    His job and his conviction are not linked and hes not prevented from doing the former by the latter. Famous or not, footballer or plumber, the law is the same and hes now free to pursue his choice of career with any company that chooses to hire him. If your a Sheffield Utd fan your free to protest by not buying merchandise or tickets, other than that its not really your business.


    If you've an issue with the laws in the UK, petition to have them changed, but don't go on some moral crusade because its a footballer.

    It absolutely isn't. If he had been convicted of driving a car with an expired tax disc, no-one would care and he'd be welcomed back by everyone. If he had been convicted of raping and murdering an 8 year old, he'd probably have to change his name and leave the country.

    Would you be ok with a child molester who is a highly qualified paediatric surgeon going back to their old job; after all they've finished their sentence and it'd be a waste not to let them use their skills?


  • #75
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,641 ✭✭✭GarIT


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Are you serious?

    Do you seriously, genuinely believe that you could be happily having sex with a person who is frozen with fear and just NOT NOTICE that they're didn't seem to be that into what was happening?

    Do you seriously believe that it is impossible to be so drunk that you cannot realistically consent due to extreme cognitive impairment?

    People around here say that rape culture is not real, that it does not exist at all or at least, not in Ireland.

    This right here is a part of what is meant by rape culture.

    As you kindly highlighted "has no signs of objection" yes I am serious. If someone was frozen from fear that would be a noticeable sign.

    Yes that's what I believe, if you are able to say yes you are able to give consent. How is another drunk person supposed to judge whether or not you are too drunk to consent. And what about people who want to have drunk sex, should they stop having drunk sex with people they meet on nights out just in case somebody someday decides they regret what they chose to do the night before.


  • #76
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Would you be ok with a child molester who is a highly qualified paediatric surgeon going back to their old job; after all they've finished their sentence and it'd be a waste not to let them use their skills?

    They'd presumably be excluded from working with children. I really didn't think I'd have to include all the basic common sense exceptions tbh. We're all assuming we're talking amongst adults here, no. Some level of implied cop on has to be included.


    In this case, his conviction isn't an excluding factor from his job (legally speaking).


  • #77
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,641 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    No it hasn't.

    Having sex with a drunk person that said yes at the time and a teenager having sex with someone a month or two younger than them will never be serious crimes to me.


  • #78
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    GarIT wrote: »
    As you kindly highlighted "has no signs of objection" yes I am serious. If someone was frozen from fear that would be a noticeable sign.

    Yes that's what I believe, if you are able to say yes you are able to give consent. How is another drunk person supposed to judge whether or not you are too drunk to consent. And what about people who want to have drunk sex, should they stop having drunk sex with people they meet on nights out just in case somebody someday decides they regret what they chose to do the night before.

    But according to you if they haven't actually said "no" then it's not rape.

    Right?


  • #79
    Dozen Wicked Words
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    His conviction is getting reviewed, it will be interesting to see if it is overturned.


  • #80
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    B0jangles wrote: »
    But according to you if they haven't actually said "no" then it's not rape.

    Right?

    What if the man is too drunk to remember aswell?


  • #81
    CaptainInsano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭CaptainInsano


    Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »
    Similar to something posted on this very thread, nor just similar in fact, but the very same link.

    Whoops. Apologies, had a look but somehow missed it.
    Thanks for the overwhelming sarcasm though, I'll never make a simple mistake again.


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  • #82
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,641 ✭✭✭GarIT


    B0jangles wrote: »
    But according to you if they haven't actually said "no" then it's not rape.

    Right?

    No I never said that, you are choosing to be ignorant here. I said if they have not objected.


  • #83
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    What he was convicted for is irrelevant. He was convicted of a crime, served the sentence, minus remission, in the standard manner and is released. He's now free to do as he pleases. He has a skillset and hes using that to provide himself with a wage.

    His job and his conviction are not linked and hes not prevented from doing the former by the latter. Famous or not, footballer or plumber, the law is the same and hes now free to pursue his choice of career with any company that chooses to hire him. If your a Sheffield Utd fan your free to protest by not buying merchandise or tickets, other than that its not really your business.


    If you've an issue with the laws in the UK, petition to have them changed, but don't go on some moral crusade because its a footballer.

    It's not because he's a soccer player, I would think the punishment was far too lenient if he was in any other form of employment or unemployed.

    It's not right that he gets to live life as normal only a few years after he raped his victim. Don't you agree with that?

    The law in Britain and here doesn't reflect what society wants, ofcourse we should be campaigning to change it. Otherwise we continue with what we have now and what we see in this thread, people see some rapes as not really rape at all.


  • #84
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »
    His conviction is getting reviewed, it will be interesting to see if it is overturned.

    If it is overturned, and the outcome would be by no means certain either way, would people then be OK with him going back to his well paid job?


  • #85
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    GarIT wrote: »
    No I never said that, you are choosing to be ignorant here. I said if they have not objected.
    GarIT wrote: »
    As far as I'm concerned no matter what the laws say if you haven't been told no (before the event) it's not rape.

    Really?


  • #86
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Is rape very trivial? I don't want him to go back to his high profile job because he's a rapist, not because of the money. I'll ask you aswell, why are you defending a rapist?

    You are fixated on what job offers he could have. It seems to kill you that he could be earning alot of money.

    I'm not defending him, I'm just pointing out that he's served his conviction, a conviction given to him by a jury of his peers. Why should he now receive a another trial by media/mob rule? Because his quality of life could now be better than yours? Trivial stuff

    Why wait until the Ched Evans case to get off the fence about the British Justice System handing out lenient sentences?



    Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »
    I thought you're point was he should be allowed to work in the job he had before his prison sentence? In the same way convicted djs, musicians and presenters should?

    My point was that Laois6556 is more concerned about what he does after he served his sentence than anything else


  • #87
    Gelatomela
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭Gelatomela


    B0jangles wrote: »
    But according to you if they haven't actually said "no" then it's not rape.

    Right?

    Can you quote where he is said it's not rape if they haven't actually said no?


  • #88
    oceanman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭oceanman


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Well first of all, the punishment was far too lenient so if it was up to me this wouldn't be up for discussion right now. Secondly, yes he should be doing a cummunity service job. Why are you defending a rapist?
    and that's why the administration of justice is never left up to people like you....thank god


  • #89
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    What if the man is too drunk to remember aswell?

    Then they'd have to go on other evidence - physical, CCTV etc.


  • #90
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    2 drunk people falling in to bed together and one deciding after that they don't remember it is a long way from a violent rape and shouldn't be in the same bracket.

    What do you mean "deciding after that they don't remember"? Your angle is clear here now.


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  • #91
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    GarIT wrote: »
    If someone is unconscious that's a different story. If someone is too frightened to say anything how would the other person know they are doing anything wrong, if they were threatened or anything that is also a different story.

    It doesn't have to be the word no but is somebody shows no sign of objecting to what you are doing, they cant later claim that they didn't want it. Unless they were in a state where they couldn't consent. It is not possible to get so drunk you cannot give consent.

    From the judge in the case

    The only witnesses say she consented, and the porter in the hotel said she had sounded into it, I don't see a problem with what happened.


    Well that isn't skin crawling at all. It's as dumb as any idiot that comes out with asinine comments like 'I don't care what the law says, if someone doesn't say no, it's not rape', or 'how is someone expected to know if someone is afraid if they don't say so?'. I often think it's because these people know they're wrong, that they'll play the dumb as fcuk card and pretend they couldn't possibly know any better.

    The fact they state that they don't care what the law says, means they actually DO know better, but they just don't care about anyone else but themselves.


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