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UPC - paying for broadband only, receiving analogue cable & RTE Two HD

  • 26-02-2012 03:00PM
    #1
    mariotr87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭


    Hi guys,

    Today I started looking for a way of getting Saorview or whatever free TV service is available. I'm not Irish, I've been living here only for a few months and I'm still confused about this. As far as I know Saorview is the only free digital TV service in this country, replacing the old analog system.

    I live in an apartments block, and I had previously noticed that there are antenna wall sockets al around the place (one per room and one more in the living room). I tried connecting my TV set to one of these and I was expecting to get signal straight away, but I didn't for some reason. I'm afraid that these sockets might not be connected to the roof or something like that.

    Anyway, I tried something different. These apartments come with an UPC wall box pre installed. I'm currently an UPC customer, but only got the Phone + Internet bundle.

    I tried connecting the TV to the same box the router is connected to, using a splitter (which was there already by the way, probably from the previous tenant). No decoder whatsoever. My TV picked up quite a few channels, both digital & analog.

    Of course, most of them are scrambled and I can not see anything. However, I get with perfect quality 17 analog channels (RTE, U TV, TG4, 4, 3e, sky news, nickelodeon, eurosport, and a couple more I had never heard of) and also one digital channel: RTE 2 HD. So that's a total of 18 non-scrambled channels.

    As I said all I did was connect the TV to the UPC socket, and got these channels straight away. Is this illegal? Are these channels usually free? Why is this working?

    Any info will be highly appreciated.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,460 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Freesat (All the main UK channels) or FTA Satellite Digital TV is also legal and free. As is picking up free channels on 4W, 5E, 13E or 19.2E Satellite from other countries. All via dish

    Saorview is the TERRESTRIAL digital replacement for Irish Analogue TV (via Aerial)

    A UPC outlet only gives Pay TV (whether analogue or digital). Sadly most apartment blocks do not have communal aerials or dishes, which is disgrace.

    Sometimes a Dish and/or aerial works on a Balcony or even inside on windowsill.


  • #3
    mariotr87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭mariotr87


    watty wrote: »
    Freesat (All the main UK channels) or FTA Satellite Digital TV is also legal and free. As is picking up free channels on 4W, 5E, 13E or 19.2E Satellite from other countries. All via dish

    Saorview is the TERRESTRIAL digital replacement for Irish Analogue TV (via Aerial)

    A UPC outlet only gives Pay TV (whether analogue or digital). Sadly most apartment blocks do not have communal aerials or dishes, which is disgrace.

    Sometimes a Dish and/or aerial works on a Balcony or even inside on windowsill.

    Thank you very much for the info watty! Understood.


  • #4
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    The 17 or so channels you are picking up are part of UPC's analogue tv service,it seems that once you subscribe to their broadband service you get these 'free' even though you shouldn't.This will be switched off at some stage by UPC but not for a while.

    Watty gave some good advice,thousands of free channels available via satellite.If you have a SouthEast facing balcony it's perfect,pretty easy to hide a dish on it if you are not allowed to put one up.

    Something like this would do,even stick a few flower pots beside it for camouflage.
    3551754632_61ebe538a1_o.jpg


  • #5
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    zerks wrote: »
    The 17 or so channels you are picking up are part of UPC's analogue tv service,it seems that once you subscribe to their broadband service you get these 'free' even though you shouldn't.This will be switched off at some stage by UPC but not for a while.

    The reason you get them is that its' impossible for UPC to supply you with broadband via cable and not also supply you with their analogue television service, because the analogue TV service is unencrypted and viewable by anyone who has a UPC connection. Its the same reason that the only way for them to disconnect the analogue cable service to any particular house is to go out and physically cut the cable - contrast with the digital service where they can remotely de-authorise your viewing card.


  • #6
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    mariotr87 wrote: »
    ... and also one digital channel: RTE 2 HD.

    Where's this coming from?


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  • #7
    mariotr87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭mariotr87


    Ronnie Raygun wrote: »
    Where's this coming from?

    That's what I was about to ask. I can understand that analogue channels are not encrypted and that's why I get them, but how come they don't encrypt RTE 2 HD? :D

    Anyway, the dish idea is a nice one, my balcony is facing South East. The only problem is that it's a shared balcony:roll eyes: although we could always reach an agreement.

    Thanks everyone.


  • #8
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    mariotr87 wrote: »
    That's what I was about to ask. I can understand that analogue channels are not encrypted and that's why I get them, but how come they don't encrypt RTE 2 HD? :D

    RTÉ2 HD isn't on UPC cable yet that I know of, expected to be available Mar/Apr.

    If it's Saorview RTÉ2 HD the cabling in the apartment block may be acting like an aerial picking up a strong terrestrial signal.


  • #9
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Good question since RTÉ Two HD is not yet on UPC (though apparently its on the way soon). The stock answer is that your UPC cable is acting as a strong enough aerial for you to pick up Saorview, but if that's the case, where are the other Saorview channels.

    Incidently moving to Cable, which I should have done the first time.


  • #10
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Great minds and all that...


  • #11
    RangeR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭RangeR


    mariotr87 wrote: »
    Anyway, the dish idea is a nice one, my balcony is facing South East. The only problem is that it's a shared balcony:roll eyes: although we could always reach an agreement.
    And as an incentive to your balcony sharer, just put a Octal LNB on the dish. 4 feeds for you, and 4 feeds for your neighbour.

    Just hide all the pesky cables.


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  • #12
    mariotr87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭mariotr87


    Maybe they are testing something and you can pick it up like this, without using the decoder. I've absolutely no idea:D it just looks like much of a coincidence that I have a channel that it's not supposed to be there until a few months time. What I'm sure about is that this is the only "Saorview" channel that my TV is picking up, and that signal is somehow in the cable that comes out of the UPC outlet.


  • #13
    Tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    Thats a bad idea from an electrical safety point of view

    RangeR wrote: »
    And as an incentive to your balcony sharer, just put a Octal LNB on the dish. 4 feeds for you, and 4 feeds for your neighbour.

    Just hide all the pesky cables.

    Owner: satellite.ie



  • #14
    RangeR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭RangeR


    Tony wrote: »
    Thats a bad idea from an electrical safety point of view

    RangeR wrote: »
    And as an incentive to your balcony sharer, just put a Octal LNB on the dish. 4 feeds for you, and 4 feeds for your neighbour.

    Just hide all the pesky cables.
    In general or ops scenario¿


  • #15
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,460 ✭✭✭✭watty


    You need special barrier earthing and qualified electrician/Installer in shared system as neighbouring houses/apartments have 380V to 440V difference. You should never share something connected to something connected to mains.


  • #16
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭STB


    mariotr87 wrote: »
    Maybe they are testing something and you can pick it up like this, without using the decoder. I've absolutely no idea:D it just looks like much of a coincidence that I have a channel that it's not supposed to be there until a few months time. What I'm sure about is that this is the only "Saorview" channel that my TV is picking up, and that signal is somehow in the cable that comes out of the UPC outlet.

    RTE2HD is one of channels you can distinguish as belonging to Saorview exclusively. If you look at the channel information you will see 738MHZ (Channel 54) in the information for the channel. You should also be picking up the rest of the Saorview "digital" channels, RTE1, 2 Tv3, 3e, RTE news Now and RTE1+1. Once you pick up one you pick up all of them, thats the way Saorview works. You will also notice that if you press radio on your Tv remote that you will have RTE radio channels.

    The rest of your channels are probably off analogue UHF which is where some of the higher frequency analogue UPC cable channels are (470Mhz)+ that are being sent around the apartment complex via the internal cable Tv system. If you had an old video recorder you would pick up the rest as most of UPC's analogue channels which are on VHF - your new Tv probably doesnt have one of them :).

    ICDG gave you the answer as to how the UPC channels and Saorview are both being picked up by one cable being connected to your aerial connection on your TV. The cable run (no doubt going upwards) is acting as an aerial for Saorview channels as well as the internal cable system.


  • #17
    Antenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Antenna


    STB wrote: »
    RTE2HD is one of channels you can distinguish as belonging to Saorview exclusively.

    It is supposed to be going on UPC shortly.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056558724

    Maybe they are already testing it? (though not on their own EPG) and the the original poster has a TV with DVB-C capability. OP, please post what model TV you have ? Other digital channels not received due to encryption. What frequency (MHz) is shown for RTE2HD if you go into tuning menu, OP?

    STB wrote: »
    The rest of your channels are probably off analogue UHF which is where some of the higher frequency analogue UPC cable channels are (470Mhz)+ that are being sent around the apartment complex via the internal cable Tv system. If you had an old video recorder you would pick up the rest as most of UPC's analogue channels which are on VHF - your new Tv probably doesnt have one of them :).

    I don't think the OP said anything to indicate the TV did not have VHF ?? :confused:
    The OP said 17 analogue cable channels (which is all of them?), so it must have VHF.



    BTW OP the thread title is strange? I'd have thought if someone thought they were doing something illegal they would keep their mouth shut?


  • #18
    Tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    In all scenarios where there are separate fuseboards and users are not earthbonded.


    RangeR wrote: »
    In general or ops scenario¿

    Owner: satellite.ie



  • #19
    Dotsie~tmp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭Dotsie~tmp


    UPC arent giving anything free. You will notice that when you sub to their internet without TV its about €7.50 dearer than both. This is them charging you for the analogue whether you use it or not.


  • #20
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭STB


    Antenna wrote: »
    It is supposed to be going on UPC shortly.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056558724

    Maybe they are already testing it? (though not on their own EPG) and the the original poster has a TV with DVB-C capability. OP, please post what model TV you have ? Other digital channels not received due to encryption. What frequency (MHz) is shown for RTE2HD if you go into tuning menu, OP?

    I don't think the OP said anything to indicate the TV did not have VHF ?? :confused:
    The OP said 17 analogue cable channels (which is all of them?), so it must have VHF.

    You would need more than a DVB-C tuner to pick up UPC off a cable feed. You would need a Nagravision3 CAM module and a viewing card! Thats why they supply proprietary cable boxes. So DVB-C tuner ruled out (I did consider it before posting initially!).

    Its analogue UPC and Saorview Channels. You dont just pick up one station on Saorview, you pick up the whole mux.

    RTE2HD is not testing on UPC yet. They are due to come on in April sometime.

    The channels he has mentioned are at the UHF end of UPCs analogue broadcasts from memory. Also most branded TVs on market that could display MPEG4 broadcasts are Pan European models which dont have VHF......

    Its not the first time people have been asking this question wondering how they are getting both with just a UPC cable attached. Badly screened cable make natural aerials.

    Any bets on 738 for RTE2HD when he comes back ?

    Mind you I could be wrong Antenna......


  • #21
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Antenna wrote: »

    BTW OP the thread title is strange? I'd have thought if someone thought they were doing something illegal they would keep their mouth shut?

    There's nothing illegal here - if there was I'd have closed the thread! I'll change the title.


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  • #22
    Antenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Antenna


    STB wrote: »
    You would need more than a DVB-C tuner to pick up UPC off a cable feed. You would need a Nagravision3 CAM module and a viewing card! Thats why they supply proprietary cable boxes. So DVB-C tuner ruled out (I did consider it before posting initially!).

    Its common on mainland Europe to have some of the digital cable channels (PSBs etc) unencrypted such that a TV with DVB-C capability can tune them in on its own tuner without needing a card. Even on a TV with a cable STB its useful if the cable STB goes faulty as you will still at least have some of the channels. It might be a requirement in legislation in those countries?
    Whilst that is not the policy here, however you will find at least one or two TV channels (and the radio channels) will not be encrypted on digital cable. Reading the first post again, the TV definately has DVB-C as the OP says that scrambled channels are tuned in. There are of course no scrambled DTT channels in this country.
    STB wrote: »
    The channels he has mentioned are at the UHF end of UPCs analogue broadcasts from memory. Also most branded TVs on market that could display MPEG4 broadcasts are Pan European models which dont have VHF......

    Again the OP is apparently getting all of the analogues ('17' channels ). Only a few are at UHF from what I gather. And I thought having VHF as well as UHF was part of the Saorview Spec for Saorview approved TVs !? The same tuner does both analogue and digital.


  • #23
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭STB


    Touché Antenna.

    But we dont know that he has a Saorview Approved TV! Might just as well be a MPEG4 TV with a DVB-C/DVB-T hybrid tuner, pan european. I am thinking Samsung or LG. Set for UK, no VHF.

    Anyway as you say the scrambled channel does point towards the digital channels going across UPC's cable system. That would be picked up by the hybrid DVB-T/DVB-C tuner that are packaged in most LCDs since 2008. But it is most likely that his TV is picking up the encrypted DVB-C's and displaying the UPC Analogue channels together with the Saorview Channels. As you know most TVs will group all these together some ATV some DTV in one channel list.

    I doubt we will ever know. We have probably scared him off. :)


  • #24
    dkane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭dkane


    Thats a bad idea from an electrical safety point of view

    Slightly off topic but how do UPC avoid such problems?


  • #25
    Tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,372 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    dkane wrote: »
    Slightly off topic but how do UPC avoid such problems?

    They use isolation boxes and its quite different as no control voltage needed as there no lnb to power.

    Owner: satellite.ie



  • #26
    stc2213
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭stc2213


    mariotr87, could you please describe what kind of splitter you have got.
    I have bought one in Powercity. simple one. and it is not working for broadband but is perfect for TV.
    thank you


  • #27
    jason198025
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 ✭jason198025


    I have ports in each room. Some work. Some dont. Does anyone know how to get them working. I presume there some box someone that just needs to be connected. I just have broadband also but getting the 17 channels.
    Tks


  • #28
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,226 ✭✭✭Solair


    You get those 17 channels on all of the UPC cable services in Ireland *except* in Cork where it's exclusively digital.

    This is because the old Cork Multichannel analogue system was also encrypted and required set-top-boxes. So when digital became available they migrated everyone over to it with a box-swap programme.

    In Cork you'll only get RTE 1, 2 and possibly TV3 if you plug a TV straight into the cable socket.


  • #29
    An Cigire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭An Cigire


    Just wondering if I order the UPC 200mb internet package (no tv) and they fit a new upc access point will I get these 17 channels too?

    There's already an old cable link connection but it's in another room.


  • #30
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,494 ✭✭✭zg3409


    An Cigire wrote: »
    Just wondering if I order the UPC 200mb internet package (no tv) and they fit a new upc access point will I get these 17 channels too?

    There's already an old cable link connection but it's in another room.

    As already explained it depends on where you live. Analogue TV is still alive and well on UPC cable in Dublin.


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  • #31
    An Cigire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭An Cigire


    zg3409 wrote: »
    As already explained it depends on where you live. Analogue TV is still alive and well on UPC cable in Dublin.

    Thanks I'm in the Dublin.. So that's great news.. Do you need a splitter or can iis there useable outlets to take broadband and analogue tv from?

    Cheers


This discussion has been closed.
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