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Couple earning €105,000 p.a.

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    #32
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    wealthy to me


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    #33
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    That's your definition, it doesn't match most people's definition.

    I think you're the one who's describing it wrong. Your earlier example of earnings and what they mean are fantasy land!


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    #34
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,094 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Seems like it's between 2 of them. In that case I think it's only slightly above average.
    It really depends on individual circumstances as in if you have kids and how many and what mortgage you pay.


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    #35
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    smash wrote: »
    If they died tomorrow they might have very little to give their kids, so they're no wealthy. Earning does not always equal wealth!

    Might! They have a plentiful supply of money, that means they're wealthy. If they purchase stuff like buying a big house then they are spending their wealth.


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    105k combined is a very middle of the road income, nothing special at all. Anyone calling it wealthy is way off the mark, its not even on the same planet as wealthy.


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    #37
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Sugar Free wrote: »
    That's only a little over 3K net a month. If they have the costs listed (rent/mortgage, car, other bills etc.) it really doesn't go that far.

    Spending their wealth, others on less money do that same things as you've listed you know?


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    #38
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Most people in Ireland don't understand what wealth is. That's half our problem.

    Half who's problem? Everyone's picking on the wealthy people. :( Oh I mean the middle earners. :D


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    #39
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    smash wrote: »
    I think you're the one who's describing it wrong. Your earlier example of earnings and what they mean are fantasy land!

    You go through it then.
    Under 30,000 = ?
    30,000 - 50,000 = ?
    50,000 - 80,000 = ?
    etc


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    #40
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    It's been pointed out plenty of times in this thread:

    Income does not equal wealth.

    No matter how big the income is.

    Wealth is net worth.

    A person on the dole who wins the lottery is wealthy.

    A person with a salary of €250,000, but a mortgage of €500,000 on a house worth €200,000 and no savings is not wealthy.


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    #41
    FactCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    If this is their only source of income, no they aren't wealthy but they have no excuse for not being comfortable.

    They should be able to afford a nice house in a nice area, a few kids, not counting pennies for bills, and regular holidays. That's comfortable.

    If they mismanage their money and think they can afford a Celtic Tiger McMansion and private school for six children, yes they will feel the pinch. But that will happen to anybody who is crap with money.


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    #42
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Valetta wrote: »
    It's been pointed out plenty of times in this thread:

    Income does not equal wealth.

    No matter how big the income is.

    Wealth is net worth.

    A person on the dole who wins the lottery is wealthy.

    A person with a salary of €250,000, but a mortgage of €500,000 on a house worth €200,000 and no savings is not wealthy.

    A person on the dole who wins the lotto is wealthy. If they decide to buy a huge jet then they are spending their wealth.
    A person with a salary of 250,000 is super-wealthy, if they buy a mantion then they're spending their wealth.


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    #43
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    A person on the dole who wins the lotto is wealthy. If they decide to buy a huge jet then they are spending their wealth.
    A person with a salary of 250,000 is super-wealthy, if they buy a mantion then they're spending their wealth.

    No.

    Wealth is "net worth".

    The guy on the dole who buys a jet is still wealthy.

    The person on a salary of €250,000 has the potential to become wealthy, sepending on what they do with the salary.


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    #44
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,348 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    smash wrote: »
    If they died tomorrow they might have very little to give their kids, so they're no wealthy. Earning does not always equal wealth!

    Of course they would. A couple on 105kpa will certainly have a very good life assurance policy
    6k a month after tax is more than 3 times what a lot of hard working people have to work with. If they're paying a massive car loan and a massive mortgage and saving to go on luxury holidays several times a year, then it's a big stretch to claim to be the 'hard pressed middle'

    After essential expenses (cut back to the bone), the disposable income of a lot of working people in ireland can be measured in the price of whether or not they can afford to buy a sunday newspaper or an ice-cream for the kids after the playground.


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    #45
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Valetta wrote: »
    No.

    Wealth is "net worth".

    The guy on the dole who buys a jet is still wealthy.

    The person on a salary of €250,000 has the potential to become wealthy, sepending on what they do with the salary.

    Seems like you all want to come up with your own definition of wealth. I've done some quick searches on google, your definition doesn't match what I've found.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Of course they would. A couple on 105kpa will certainly have a very good life assurance policy
    6k a month after tax is more than 3 times what a lot of hard working people have to work with. If they're paying a massive car loan and a massive mortgage and saving to go on luxury holidays several times a year, then it's a big stretch to claim to be the 'hard pressed middle'

    After essential expenses (cut back to the bone), the disposable income of a lot of working people in ireland can be measured in the price of whether or not they can afford to buy a sunday newspaper or an ice-cream for the kids after the playground.

    The fact that some people in the country don't earn much money does not make a couple on 105k wealthy. They are very much a middle income family.

    They will only be able to afford a normal car, a normal house and cant just spend as they please they need to watch their spending like anyone else.

    Wealth is buying a new luxury car on a whim and not even noticing the money gone for your bank account.


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    #47
    junior_apollo
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭junior_apollo


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Seems like you all want to come up with your own definition of wealth. I've done some quick searches on google, your definition doesn't match what I've found.

    Care to share your findings? As the majority if not all definitions should be referring to something along these lines:

    "Wealth is the abundance of valuable resources or material possessions."

    Examples:
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wealth
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wealth
    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/wealth.asp


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    #48
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    junior_apollo wrote: »
    Care to share your findings? As the majority if not all definitions should be referring to something along these lines:

    "Wealth is the abundance of valuable resources or material possessions."

    Examples:
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wealth
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wealth
    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/wealth.asp

    All those links back up what I've said and contradict others on this thread who've come up with alternative definitions. Was that your aim of posting those links? If so, thank you.


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    #49
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    It's only when I read threads like this that I realise I'm essentially destitute.


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    #50
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    It's a middle class household income that would put you in the high percentile of income in the country but it's not wealthy.


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    #51
    wersal gummage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    Just to say, if both parts of a couple are public sector workers the net salary is much closer to 5k monthly than 6k.

    Take out 1800 to 2200 for a mortgage of they've bought in recent years. Take out 2k if they've two kids in a crèche in Dublin.

    That leaves about 1500. Then pay for bills, food, car loan etc. These people are living on approximately 350 a week. Then any bills for medicine etc if a child is sick.

    I understand lots of people get by with a lot less, but if you think somebody like this is wealthy you have your head in the clouds.


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    #52
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    wersal gummage wrote: »
    Just to say, if both parts of a couple are public sector workers the net salary is much closer to 5k monthly than 6k.

    Take out 1800 to 2200 for a mortgage of they've bought in recent years. Take out 2k if they've two kids in a crèche in Dublin.

    That leaves about 1500. Then pay for bills, food, car loan etc. These people are living on approximately 350 a week. Then any bills for medicine etc if a child is sick.

    I understand lots of people get by with a lot less, but if you think somebody like this is wealthy you have your head in the clouds.

    But if it is a middle aged couple, mortgage paid off, children grown, educated and self sufficient, then the couple are comfortable, perhaps even affluent, but I agree, not wealthy.


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    #53
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    wersal gummage wrote: »
    Just to say, if both parts of a couple are public sector workers the net salary is much closer to 5k monthly than 6k.

    Take out 1800 to 2200 for a mortgage of they've bought in recent years. Take out 2k if they've two kids in a crèche in Dublin.

    That leaves about 1500. Then pay for bills, food, car loan etc. These people are living on approximately 350 a week. Then any bills for medicine etc if a child is sick.

    I understand lots of people get by with a lot less, but if you think somebody like this is wealthy you have your head in the clouds.

    That's them choosing how they spend their wealth, like if a couple were earning a million and they're spending 999,000 of that on different things throughout the year, are they no longer wealthy?


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    #54
    wersal gummage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    MouseTail wrote: »
    But if it is a middle aged couple, mortgage paid off, children grown, educated and self sufficient, then the couple are comfortable, perhaps even affluent, but I agree, not wealthy.

    I think that is the whole point. It is all relative. I'm simply pointing out that 105k doesn't automatically equate to being wealthy. To be honest, I suspect some of the people who think that kind of money is huge are probably quite young, may not have huge outgoings and probably don't fully appreciate the progressive nature of our tax system. Comfortable yes, good quality of life yes, but not wealthy.


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    #55
    junior_apollo
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭junior_apollo


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    All those links back up what I've said and contradict others on this thread who've come up with alternative definitions. Was that your aim of posting those links? If so, thank you.

    You are basing your view of 'wealth' as how much a person earns... which is wrong...

    Wealth is "A measure of the value of all of the assets of worth owned by a person, community, company or country. Wealth is found by taking the total market value of all the physical and intangible assets of the entity and then subtracting all debts. "

    So it makes no difference what they earn, if they have no assets or no resources free of debt, then they have no wealth... someone with no earnings could be much wealthier than the OP's hypothetical couple easily.


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    #56
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    People here seem to be conflating "Wealthy" with "Not Struggling"

    They are very different things..

    A couple on €105k should be at a minimum ,comfortable. By that I mean , all the bills get paid without fuss , the kids can go to a few after school things (Sports membership fees , dancing classes , art classes or whatever) and there will typically be a few quid available for a meal out a few times a month or similar.

    However they will still need to be careful with their money and a few unexpected bills could have them under short/medium term pressure - A big car/house repair bill or something.

    They are still people who need to keep a regular eye on the bank-balance and who will have to hold off on certain expenses until they can afford them.

    Generally though , they are doing ok and aren't lying awake at night worrying about how to pay the mortgage.

    Wealthy doesn't mean "Lifestyles of the rich and famous" in my view..

    For me Wealthy means that you never really bother checking your bank account , if an expense comes up you just pay it and don't need to think about if you can afford it this week or if you should wait until the end of the month.

    A Couple on €105k are not Wealthy.


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    #57
    wersal gummage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭wersal gummage


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    That's them choosing how they spend their wealth, like if a couple were earning a million and they're spending 999,000 of that on different things throughout the year, are they no longer wealthy?

    What other choices can they make? I know people with mortgages and crèche feel like this, they don't live in posh areas. They've got stung and are stuck now. What are the options that involve not spending mortgage and crèche fees?


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    #58
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    THE average wage is 30k,
    so 2x30= 60k.
    SO any couple earning 100 k, is definitely middle class .
    The size of your mortgage is based on where you choose to live,
    did you buy in the boom years.
    OF course the middle class is getting smaller.
    many jobs are getting replaced by computers ,
    many graduates end up working for low wages ,as interns etc
    Maybe
    00000.1 per cent centof the population win the lottery,
    You cant base opinions on such a tiny minority.
    IN the boom ,carpenters, bricklayers,plumbers, could earn more than some middle class
    people , as wages were high.
    Wealth is net worth,savings and assets you own,minus debt,
    having a large mortgage does not equal wealth.
    Being wealthy means you can pay all your bills on time,
    buy luxury items,
    eg a 60k car, without borrowing the money to do so,
    and afford to buy a house where you want to .


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    #59
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Very wealthy imo. They have the ability to accumulate money, which many do not. The ability to accumulate is my idea of wealth.
    I am single and paid a mortgage on an average income, and drove a car as that was needed to get to work. After I paid off my mortgage I put 20% of my gross into my pension , while saving €30k over 15 years.
    They are loaded on €105k a year. My guess is they spend the lot, and borrow more.


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    #60
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    junior_apollo wrote: »
    You are basing your view of 'wealth' as how much a person earns... which is wrong...

    Wealth is "A measure of the value of all of the assets of worth owned by a person, community, company or country. Wealth is found by taking the total market value of all the physical and intangible assets of the entity and then subtracting all debts. "

    So it makes no difference what they earn, if they have no assets or no resources free of debt, then they have no wealth... someone with no earnings could be much wealthier than the OP's hypothetical couple easily.

    Just taking a few things from your own links wealth is: a great quantity or store of money, valuable possessions, property, or other riches.
    an abundance or profusion of anything; plentiful amount
    An abundance of valuable material possessions or resources; riches.
    The state of being rich; affluence.
    A great amount; a profusion

    105,000 a year is wealthy.


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    #61
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    wersal gummage wrote: »
    What other choices can they make? I know people with mortgages and crèche feel like this, they don't live in posh areas. They've got stung and are stuck now. What are the options that involve not spending mortgage and crèche fees?

    Maybe they could live in a smaller house? Did anyone force them to have kids?


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