Couple earning €105,000 p.a.

Ellie2008

Are they considered wealthy or middle income?

Middle income, I'd say.

Frosty McSnowballs

Poor bastards must be on minimum wage.

suicide_circus

Did this couple meet in coppers by any chance?

Valetta

Wealth and income are different things.

A couple with 105k income that spends every cent and has no savings are certainly now wealthy.

A couple with 75k income that save hard, bought property at the right time, got lucky with shares etc. and have a net worth of 500k could be considered wealthy.

tritium

Valetta wrote: »

Wealth and income are different things.

A couple with 105k income that spends every cent and has no savings are certainly now wealthy.

A couple with 75k income that save hard, bought property at the right time, got lucky with shares etc. and have a net worth of 500k could be considered wealthy.

What they said ^^^^°>. More detail is needed here. Do they have any children? If so what ages are they? A boom time mortgage? What's their minimum expenditure for commute to work? Do they have any adult dependents- elderly parents etc? Single or dual income household?

Depending on relative answers to the above a couple on 40k could be doing better than them by any realistic benchmark.

o1s1n

Do they wear top hats and use monocles?

If not then no, they're not wealthy.

Mr. Incognito

Anything over twice the average industrial wage is middle class.

The average industrial wage is €30,000

Do the math

ThinkAboutIt

Ireland: Anyone that has more money than me is rich. Hope this helps.

kneemos

Do they spend all their money on take aways and Tubz's?

DoYouEvenLift

Where do they live?

An average salary of 52.5k each isn't wealthy, it's better than the industrial average but it can't be described as wealthy.

smash

Ellie2008 wrote: »

Are they considered wealthy or middle income?

It depends. What's their monthly disposable income?

Mr. Incognito

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Anything over twice the average industrial wage is middle class.

The average industrial wage is €30,000

Do the math

So if they earn €70,000,000 a year they're on middle income?

jimgoose

That kind of coin coming into the household could be described as anything from Squeezed Middle-Class to reasonably affluent. One thing it isn't is wealthy. When a person is "wealthy" salary doesn't come into it.

Sugar Free

That's only ~6K net a month. If they're in their twenties with no mortgage or kids they should be fairly comfortable.

If they've two kids and a sizeable mortgage then it changes, particularly if they're paying creche fees.

It's too general to class people solely on income without accounting for circumstances.

Additionally, in a lot of cases (my own included) my salary is only a portion of my overall compensation and the additional benefits I receive significantly reduce my costs for other things.

Laois6556

Ah they're wealthy, 105,000, come on that's a huge amount. I think 150,000 up would be classed as super-wealthy. 50,000-80,000 would be considered rich, 30,000-50,000 are middle earners and then below 30,000 are poor. My terms of description can be changed a bit and the numbers a small bit but you get the general outline.

Donkey Oaty

It all hinges on whether or not all day long they biddy biddy bum.

Frynge

o1s1n wrote: »

Do they wear top hats and use monocles?

If not then no, they're not wealthy.

I'm wealthy!








(As monocle falls from eye.)

jimgoose

Laois6556 wrote: »

Ah they're wealthy, 105,000, come on that's a huge amount. I think 150,000 up would be classed as super-wealthy. 50,000-80,000 would be considered rich, 30,000-50,000 are middle earners and then below 30,000 are poor. My terms of description can be changed a bit and the numbers a small bit but you get the general outline.

"Wealthy" means your resources - assets liquid and otherwise - work for you. A couple earning a combined salary of a hundred grand or so are working for their crust like most every other stiff.

The Backwards Man

Wealth is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman.

It's not what you have, it's how you spread it around.

Laois6556

jimgoose wrote: »

"Wealthy" means your resources - assets liquid and otherwise - work for you. A couple earning a combined salary of a hundred grand or so are working for their crust like most every other stiff.

Wealthy = having a great deal of money, resources, or assets.

Gael23

Is the 105k based on one income or two?

jimgoose

Laois6556 wrote: »

Wealthy = having a great deal of money, resources, or assets.

Wealthy == having sufficient assets - liquid and/or otherwise - to be able to live as you please independent of any salaried employment.

Laois6556

OSI wrote: »

€105,000 between them isn't a lot. They'd come out with about €6k after tax every month. Take a mortgage, car costs, childcare fees, bills etc out and they'll have a bit of disposable income and something to save, but they won't be wealthy.

Take that off a couple earning 60,000? They are wealthy, if they're spending more money than others it's because they have more money to spend.

Laois6556

jimgoose wrote: »

Wealthy == having sufficient assets - liquid and/or otherwise - to be able to live as you please independent of any salaried employment.

That's the super-wealthy.

jimgoose

Laois6556 wrote: »

That's the super-wealthy.

No. That is what "wealth" is. Our €105,000 couple above are merely earning a good living.

smash

Laois6556 wrote: »

Take that off a couple earning 60,000? They are wealthy, if they're spending more money than others it's because they have more money to spend.

If they died tomorrow they might have very little to give their kids, so they're no wealthy. Earning does not always equal wealth!

Sugar Free

Laois6556 wrote: »

Take that off a couple earning 60,000? They are wealthy, if they're spending more money than others it's because they have more money to spend.

That's only a little over 3K net a month. If they have the costs listed (rent/mortgage, car, other bills etc.) it really doesn't go that far.

Laois6556

jimgoose wrote: »

No. That is what "wealth" is. Our €105,000 couple above are merely earning a good living.

That's your definition, it doesn't match most people's definition.

jimgoose

Laois6556 wrote: »

That's your definition, it doesn't match most people's definition.

Most people in Ireland don't understand what wealth is. That's half our problem.

italodisco

wealthy to me

smash

Laois6556 wrote: »

That's your definition, it doesn't match most people's definition.

I think you're the one who's describing it wrong. Your earlier example of earnings and what they mean are fantasy land!

Gael23

Seems like it's between 2 of them. In that case I think it's only slightly above average.
It really depends on individual circumstances as in if you have kids and how many and what mortgage you pay.

Laois6556

smash wrote: »

If they died tomorrow they might have very little to give their kids, so they're no wealthy. Earning does not always equal wealth!

Might! They have a plentiful supply of money, that means they're wealthy. If they purchase stuff like buying a big house then they are spending their wealth.

105k combined is a very middle of the road income, nothing special at all. Anyone calling it wealthy is way off the mark, its not even on the same planet as wealthy.

Laois6556

Sugar Free wrote: »

That's only a little over 3K net a month. If they have the costs listed (rent/mortgage, car, other bills etc.) it really doesn't go that far.

Spending their wealth, others on less money do that same things as you've listed you know?

Laois6556

jimgoose wrote: »

Most people in Ireland don't understand what wealth is. That's half our problem.

Half who's problem? Everyone's picking on the wealthy people. Oh I mean the middle earners.

Laois6556

smash wrote: »

I think you're the one who's describing it wrong. Your earlier example of earnings and what they mean are fantasy land!

You go through it then.
Under 30,000 = ?
30,000 - 50,000 = ?
50,000 - 80,000 = ?
etc

Valetta

It's been pointed out plenty of times in this thread:

Income does not equal wealth.

No matter how big the income is.

Wealth is net worth.

A person on the dole who wins the lottery is wealthy.

A person with a salary of €250,000, but a mortgage of €500,000 on a house worth €200,000 and no savings is not wealthy.

FactCheck

If this is their only source of income, no they aren't wealthy but they have no excuse for not being comfortable.

They should be able to afford a nice house in a nice area, a few kids, not counting pennies for bills, and regular holidays. That's comfortable.

If they mismanage their money and think they can afford a Celtic Tiger McMansion and private school for six children, yes they will feel the pinch. But that will happen to anybody who is crap with money.

Laois6556

Valetta wrote: »

It's been pointed out plenty of times in this thread:

Income does not equal wealth.

No matter how big the income is.

Wealth is net worth.

A person on the dole who wins the lottery is wealthy.

A person with a salary of €250,000, but a mortgage of €500,000 on a house worth €200,000 and no savings is not wealthy.

A person on the dole who wins the lotto is wealthy. If they decide to buy a huge jet then they are spending their wealth.
A person with a salary of 250,000 is super-wealthy, if they buy a mantion then they're spending their wealth.

Valetta

Laois6556 wrote: »

A person on the dole who wins the lotto is wealthy. If they decide to buy a huge jet then they are spending their wealth.
A person with a salary of 250,000 is super-wealthy, if they buy a mantion then they're spending their wealth.

No.

Wealth is "net worth".

The guy on the dole who buys a jet is still wealthy.

The person on a salary of €250,000 has the potential to become wealthy, sepending on what they do with the salary.

Akrasia

smash wrote: »

If they died tomorrow they might have very little to give their kids, so they're no wealthy. Earning does not always equal wealth!

Of course they would. A couple on 105kpa will certainly have a very good life assurance policy
6k a month after tax is more than 3 times what a lot of hard working people have to work with. If they're paying a massive car loan and a massive mortgage and saving to go on luxury holidays several times a year, then it's a big stretch to claim to be the 'hard pressed middle'

After essential expenses (cut back to the bone), the disposable income of a lot of working people in ireland can be measured in the price of whether or not they can afford to buy a sunday newspaper or an ice-cream for the kids after the playground.

Laois6556

Valetta wrote: »

No.

Wealth is "net worth".

The guy on the dole who buys a jet is still wealthy.

The person on a salary of €250,000 has the potential to become wealthy, sepending on what they do with the salary.

Seems like you all want to come up with your own definition of wealth. I've done some quick searches on google, your definition doesn't match what I've found.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

Of course they would. A couple on 105kpa will certainly have a very good life assurance policy
6k a month after tax is more than 3 times what a lot of hard working people have to work with. If they're paying a massive car loan and a massive mortgage and saving to go on luxury holidays several times a year, then it's a big stretch to claim to be the 'hard pressed middle'

After essential expenses (cut back to the bone), the disposable income of a lot of working people in ireland can be measured in the price of whether or not they can afford to buy a sunday newspaper or an ice-cream for the kids after the playground.

The fact that some people in the country don't earn much money does not make a couple on 105k wealthy. They are very much a middle income family.

They will only be able to afford a normal car, a normal house and cant just spend as they please they need to watch their spending like anyone else.

Wealth is buying a new luxury car on a whim and not even noticing the money gone for your bank account.

junior_apollo

Laois6556 wrote: »

Seems like you all want to come up with your own definition of wealth. I've done some quick searches on google, your definition doesn't match what I've found.

Care to share your findings? As the majority if not all definitions should be referring to something along these lines:

"Wealth is the abundance of valuable resources or material possessions."

Examples:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wealth
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wealth
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/wealth.asp

Laois6556

junior_apollo wrote: »

Care to share your findings? As the majority if not all definitions should be referring to something along these lines:

"Wealth is the abundance of valuable resources or material possessions."

Examples:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wealth
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wealth
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/wealth.asp

All those links back up what I've said and contradict others on this thread who've come up with alternative definitions. Was that your aim of posting those links? If so, thank you.

suicide_circus

It's only when I read threads like this that I realise I'm essentially destitute.

anncoates

It's a middle class household income that would put you in the high percentile of income in the country but it's not wealthy.

wersal gummage

Just to say, if both parts of a couple are public sector workers the net salary is much closer to 5k monthly than 6k.

Take out 1800 to 2200 for a mortgage of they've bought in recent years. Take out 2k if they've two kids in a crèche in Dublin.

That leaves about 1500. Then pay for bills, food, car loan etc. These people are living on approximately 350 a week. Then any bills for medicine etc if a child is sick.

I understand lots of people get by with a lot less, but if you think somebody like this is wealthy you have your head in the clouds.