Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Johner · 12-10-2014 05:38PM

RQ2013 wrote: »

Deserves his start.... Has been quality for the last while

Is the Spain match on tv?

Yep, Sky Sports 5.

Larry Wildman · 12-10-2014 05:50PM

Terrible miss there from Rooney.

Lord TSC · 12-10-2014 05:56PM

Jeez, I'd hate to lose Mata but I'd worry for my health if we lost De Gea.

Only slight silver lining would be that, in a world where Suarez and Bale are going for such massive prices, and knowing how Real love to splash the cash on their new toys, I'd expect....oh, at least 150m for De Gea :pac:

SherlockWatson · 12-10-2014 07:12PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

I think you will find he drops so deep because of having such a poor midfield to provide service.

Dropping as deep as your corner flag to win the ball is a little bit different than dropping a bit deeper to get involved in the game.

Nuts102 wrote: »

Mata and Kagawa natural 10's also were forced to play way too deep and suffered.

There's a difference between playing deep and dropping as deep as your corner flag to win the ball back, which is ok as a Striker or No.9, but I'd prefer if my #10 wasn't wasted doing donkey work defensively.

Nuts102 wrote: »

For someone who is supposedly woefully out of position for counter's his goal and assist ratio is phenomenal. Can only imagine what it would be if he didn't track back.

That's because he spends the majority of his time playing as a Striker.

Are you actually trying to say that when he chases back to win the ball at the corner flag, that he isn't then out of position??

Also, I saw you previously say that I've let my dislike for Rooney cloud my judgement, this isn't true, I actually like Rooney and it sickens me to see the abuse he receives from England fans even when he bails them out in games like tonight.

Please don't change the facts to suit the narrative, I quite like Rooney, but he is not a great #10.

SherlockWatson · 12-10-2014 07:14PM

Must say I've enjoyed this International break so far, enjoyable games that i've seen so far.

thelad95 · 12-10-2014 07:45PM

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Must say I've enjoyed this International break so far, enjoyable games that i've seen so far.

You are literally the first person in history to say that.

12-10-2014 08:01PM

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Dropping as deep as your corner flag to win the ball is a little bit different than dropping a bit deeper to get involved in the game.

There's a difference between playing deep and dropping as deep as your corner flag to win the ball back, which is ok as a Striker or No.9, but I'd prefer if my #10 wasn't wasted doing donkey work defensively.

That's because he spends the majority of his time playing as a Striker.

Are you actually trying to say that when he chases back to win the ball at the corner flag, that he isn't then out of position??

Also, I saw you previously say that I've let my dislike for Rooney cloud my judgement, this isn't true, I actually like Rooney and it sickens me to see the abuse he receives from England fans even when he bails them out in games like tonight.

Please don't change the facts to suit the narrative, I quite like Rooney, but he is not a great #10.

When you are playing with 2 strikers the person behind them can't be lazy imo. Coutinho struggled with it at Liverpool last season and Mata is yet to look his best when played this season. Rooney is rarely tracking back down the field these days at all I find but in terms of pressing opponents I don't think it's any contest between him and Mata. I don't like LVG's system one bit so far as I think there are better ones for the players at the club but as it is, as much as it annoys me, Rooney is better for the position than Mata.

I would however hope that Mata will take Herrera's spot but with difficult games coming up I'd doubt it.

SherlockWatson · 12-10-2014 08:06PM

thelad95 wrote: »

You are literally the first person in history to say that.

:pac:

Normally I agree but I've enjoyed this window, happy to let our players have time to come back from injury as well!

ElChe32 · 12-10-2014 08:26PM

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Must say I've enjoyed this International break so far, enjoyable games that i've seen so far.

Timmyctc · 12-10-2014 09:49PM

thelad95 wrote: »

You are literally the first person in history to say that.

Haven't loads of people said its a well needed Intl. break because of all our injuries? I'm almost certain I read that on here as well as twitter and such.

RobertKK · 12-10-2014 10:11PM

Yeah the break suits United to get players back before we play the bigger names.
Once none get injured in the meantime.

SherlockWatson · 12-10-2014 11:08PM

ElChe32 wrote: »

Can't be arsed to go find a picture for you, so I'll just use your own as it suits.

Giggsy11 · 13-10-2014 06:21AM

Liam O wrote: »

When you are playing with 2 strikers the person behind them can't be lazy imo. Coutinho struggled with it at Liverpool last season and Mata is yet to look his best when played this season. Rooney is rarely tracking back down the field these days at all I find but in terms of pressing opponents I don't think it's any contest between him and Mata. I don't like LVG's system one bit so far as I think there are better ones for the players at the club but as it is, as much as it annoys me, Rooney is better for the position than Mata.

I would however hope that Mata will take Herrera's spot but with difficult games coming up I'd doubt it.

End up playing with Mata, Rooney, Di Maria and Blind in the midfield?

Pro. F · 13-10-2014 11:13AM

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Dropping as deep as your corner flag to win the ball is a little bit different than dropping a bit deeper to get involved in the game.

There's a difference between playing deep and dropping as deep as your corner flag to win the ball back, which is ok as a Striker or No.9, but I'd prefer if my #10 wasn't wasted doing donkey work defensively.

That's because he spends the majority of his time playing as a Striker.

Are you actually trying to say that when he chases back to win the ball at the corner flag, that he isn't then out of position??

Also, I saw you previously say that I've let my dislike for Rooney cloud my judgement, this isn't true, I actually like Rooney and it sickens me to see the abuse he receives from England fans even when he bails them out in games like tonight.

Please don't change the facts to suit the narrative, I quite like Rooney, but he is not a great #10.

I agree that Rooney lacks the close control to make him a great 10 (although I think he might work really well in this particular system LVG is building), but I think the criticism of his positioning is wrong. I think if you compare how many times Rooney receives the ball in the final third that he beats Mata (and any other forward at United) consistently. And I doubt any other 10 you might want to bring to the club would out do him in that category.

thelad95 · 13-10-2014 11:32AM

The international break did come at a good time for us, allowing some key players a 'free week' in their recovery from injury but has it been enjoyable? No.

Nalz · 13-10-2014 12:24PM

thelad95 wrote: »

The international break did come at a good time for us, allowing some key players a 'free week' in their recovery from injury but has it been enjoyable? No.

how many games did you watch? I kinda enjoyed it

alchemist33 · 13-10-2014 12:33PM

Trilla wrote: »

how many games did you watch? I kinda enjoyed it

The spreading out of games is a good idea. It almost makes the international break an event.

Almost.

keane2097 · 13-10-2014 01:25PM

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree that Rooney lacks the close control to make him a great 10 (although I think he might work really well in this particular system LVG is building), but I think the criticism of his positioning is wrong. I think if you compare how many times Rooney receives the ball in the final third that he beats Mata (and any other forward at United) consistently. And I doubt any other 10 you might want to bring to the club would out do him in that category.

I would guess that if you normalised those receiving the ball stats to take out instances of receiving the ball on the touchline the results might look a fair bit different.

Having said that, I haven't checked and probably won't so...

SherlockWatson · 13-10-2014 01:50PM

thelad95 wrote: »

The international break did come at a good time for us, allowing some key players a 'free week' in their recovery from injury but has it been enjoyable? No.

Sorry, you don't enjoy watching football clearly, my bad.

IvySlayer · 13-10-2014 01:51PM

United don't play until Monday

Giggsy11 · 13-10-2014 02:12PM

IvySlayer wrote: »

United don't play until Monday

Good that our game is on monday. Would have missed if it was on weekend.

The Moldy Gowl · 13-10-2014 02:23PM

IvySlayer wrote: »

United don't play until Monday

Being so close to a Tuesday is giving me vertigo.

BloodBath · 13-10-2014 05:14PM

I don't get all the love for Mata in here. Rooney has been an absolute powerhouse for us so many times throughout his career. Mata has not had many great displays since he joined us.

You can blame this on Moyes or playing him out of position but even in his best position behind 2 strikers he's been pretty ineffective so far.

Not many touches, key passes or overall work in the games he's played. He's simply is not doing enough.

You can say oh a number 10 is all about the passing and it's ok if he's poor defensively but that's not true especially when we are playing 2 forwards and especially when he isn't doing enough in the area he's strongest in to make up for how weak he is in other areas.

Mata's dribbling is also very poor, he doesn't take on and beat players ever which is something you would expect from a good 10. His passing is the only good part of his game imo.

Van Gaal seems to be going with a diamond formation in midfield of which the 10 is the forward tip. That means the 10 has to track back and keep that shape with the midfield and to cover if any of the others leave gaping gaps while they push forward. He isn't free to just hang around up front like he would be with a single striker which is what would suit Mata best imo.

As usual we're trying to fit square pegs into round holes but if Mata was better in other areas it wouldn't be an issue. You can't build the team around 1 players strengths.

beno619 · 13-10-2014 06:04PM

BloodBath wrote:

I don't get all the love for Mata in here. Rooney has been an absolute powerhouse for us so many times throughout his career. Mata has not had many great displays since he joined us.

Rooney has never been a great #10, Mata has at one time had a claim to being the best in the world in that position.

beno619 · 13-10-2014 06:04PM

BloodBath wrote:

I don't get all the love for Mata in here. Rooney has been an absolute powerhouse for us so many times throughout his career. Mata has not had many great displays since he joined us.

Rooney has never been a great #10, Mata has at one time had a claim to being the best in the world in that position.

Billy86 · 13-10-2014 06:26PM

Liam O wrote: »

I would however hope that Mata will take Herrera's spot but with difficult games coming up I'd doubt it.

You want Mata to play as a two way midfielder in place of possibly our best player not named Di Maria over the last 3 or so games?

BloodBath wrote: »

[Mata's] passing is the only good part of his game imo.

You forgot goalscoring. Since he got going in March he has averaged a goal every 108 minutes for us despite spending some time in wide areas. At that rate if he played 30 full games for us over the season he would wind up with 25 goals.

BloodBath · 13-10-2014 06:28PM

I'm not saying Rooney is amazing either. The reality is neither player is great for the role expected of them in that formation but Rooney has more to his game than Mata does which is why he gets selected ahead of him there.

Mata will get a couple more games to prove himself there at least but he will be back on the bench when Rooney returns from suspension. It's going to take a change in formation to fit both of them into the team.

I think Rooney could easily slot into Herreras position in midfield though as the RM and do an excellent job there but then Herrera get's left out. Rooney tends to loiter around these areas anyway. It's not a bad problem to have at least and with injuries/suspensions and more competitions they should all get decent game time.

You forgot goalscoring. Since he got going in March he has averaged a goal every 108 minutes for us despite spending some time in wide areas. At that rate if he played 30 full games for us over the season he would wind up with 25 goals.

That's not how it works, sorry.

irishfeen · 13-10-2014 06:29PM

SAF talking on MUTV now for the first time (I think) since he retired.... I hope we hear him talk about David Moyes..

Blue giant · 13-10-2014 06:31PM

beno619 wrote: »

Rooney has never been a great #10, Mata has at one time had a claim to being the best in the world in that position.

Wouldn't go as far as claiming he was the best in the world. Good certainly but would have never been the very best in the world.

Rayne Wooney · 13-10-2014 06:32PM

I don't think anyone who understands the point of the positions would argue that Mata isn't a far better number 10 than Rooney

The thing is Rooney's talent can see him score a ton of goals from any attacking position he plays so he's pretty much unplayable, you have to have him on the pitch somewhere, and his work rate is immense

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Comments