Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

homerjay2005

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The Number 10 role, and position, is well established in football

indeed, but in a completely different reference to what is being discussed on here. Denis Law was a "10", Rooney is a "10'". Juan Mata is not.

do City play with a 10? no they dont.
do Arsenal play with a 10? i dont think they do.
Real Madrid? again, they dont.
bayern? unless people call Mueller a 10, which he isnt, no they dont.

and so on and so on.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

and if you look up the LVG tactics discussion I posted on here a while back you will see LVG himself talk about the number 10 and there responsibility to the side - so given LVG sees it as a role, and he is actually the United boss...

you will hear LVG reference numbers for multiple difference positions, its just his way of talking. he also said in a recent interview that Rooney can play at 7, 11 9 or 10, but he prefers him at a 9 or 10.

Phil Jones was described as a 4 by him, Rojo as a 3 or a 5. these are just positions on the pitch, but on boards this number 10 position is treated as if its the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Mars Bar

I don't consider rooney a 10 in the current set up. A 10 is to be the player who links the attacking play around the box behind the striker (not a role he does as well as a 10 should imo), he's the creative outlet with little defensive duty. Rooney is behind the strikers because we have to fit them all in somewhere and his stamina and defensive work are very good. That works fine. Imo, his best position is out and out striker.

Lucas Hood

I can't actually believe what I am reading on here.

The Moldy Gowl

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I can't actually believe what I am reading on here.

What's up, buttercup

kryogen

Was there a poster here years ago called SeanSouth or something like that or am I just losing my mind? Chap from Limerick (naturally)

Martin Walker

Mars Bar wrote: »

I don't consider rooney a 10 in the current set up. A 10 is to be the player who links the attacking play around the box behind the striker (not a role he does as well as a 10 should imo), he's the creative outlet with little defensive duty. Rooney is behind the strikers because we have to fit them all in somewhere and his stamina and defensive work are very good. That works fine. Imo, his best position is out and out striker.

This.
Id wager that if he signed for Chelsea when they were looking at him hed be playing up top on his own.

The Moldy Gowl

kryogen wrote: »

Was there a poster here years ago called SeanSouth or something like that or am I just losing my mind? Chap from Limerick (naturally)

From garryowen?

The_Kew_Tour

Probably re reg 132 times by now (in joking, kinda)

kryogen

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

From garryowen?

Certainly wished he was anyway

Mr_Red

Does anyone have info on injury recovery within the Team?

homerjay2005

kryogen wrote: »

Was there a poster here years ago called SeanSouth or something like that or am I just losing my mind? Chap from Limerick (naturally)

yes, he is still here. he changed his usermane (as alot of people do) and now has a new account for last couple of years. he is a very regular poster.

in interest of charter and fairness i dont think its acceptable however to mention his name.

Nalz

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Number 10 or CAM... Who cares? It's still the same position, why bother arguing over the label?

We all know what position is being referred to when somebody says number 10.

Because he can and he will

The_Kew_Tour

No new injuries so far.

One round games to go.

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Mata/Kaawa are attacking midfielders, plain and simple.

the number 10 role has never been part of our DNA in the way people call it here- if you ever meet Ferguson ask him about false 9's or number 10's and see how far you get, in fact in his book he refers to kagawa as a midfielder and likewise nick powell, yet we have lads on here calling them number 10's.

Rooney and Mata are completely different players, im not sure why people keep comparing them. Rooney is a number 10 in the old fashioned style, playing just off a goal scoring striker (RVN, Saha, RVP) but is an out and out striker, not an attacking midfielder - they are completely different roles.

i would liken Matas role to that of lets say Silva at City. now Silva isnt a number 10 but he plays as an attacking midfielder behind Aguero and Dzeko for instance. Fernandinho and Toure do the holding, allowing Silva a free role.

when City are defending, he would be tasked with covering the left wing but the majority of his game is played drifting accross the entire midfield. thats what Mata should be doing, but he doesnt seem capable (or maybe isnt allowed to). the only reason it becomes Rooney V Mata is now due to Falcaos involvement, 4 into 3 positions wont go and there isnt much room for Mata in a 4-3-3 that requires speed - Rooney offers more of it than Mata so he is always going to be picked.

ive been doing my coaching badges for the past 2 years and have been mentored by a former United academy coach. i can be 100% sure that he has never once mentioned number 10 role to me in any session, discussion or analysis we have done. "playing in the hole" has been mentioned and would be more appropriate than this number 10 nonsense.

There's more than one way to name positions. The phrases "number 10", "attacking midfielder", "central attacking midfielder", "in the hole", "fantasista", "creative forward" and probably plenty more can all be used to describe the same position. Or they can be used to denote slightly different roles if you need to in a conversation, as long as you define what you're talking about.

I remember on this thread when we used to call the position CAM, but then that changed because mouth breathers would take issue with the word "midfielder" being there. Everybody on here who has been talking about Rooney and Mata playing at 10 knows exactly what they mean, there has been no confusion.

The reason people keep comparing Rooney and Mata is because they are currently competing for the same position. You shouldn't need that explained to you.

The idea that we should follow exactly the same naming system as Fergie or some ex United coach you met is pathetic. The fact that you take issue with people using a different naming system to the one you prefer, making sky sports references and calling it nonsnense, makes you look like an idiot.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

indeed, but in a completely different reference to what is being discussed on here. Denis Law was a "10", Rooney is a "10'". Juan Mata is not.

What you are talking about is a British naming convention, there is another use of the term "10" which is widely accepted. Everybody understands this except for you.

Kerrydude1981

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No new injuries so far.

One round games to go.

As they said in Man About Dog,

Dont put the BLINK on it

kryogen

Mr_Red wrote: »

Does anyone have info on injury recovery within the Team?

No updates myself right now, but I just wanted to say that waiting until Monday is a pain in the hole for us, but has to be good for the team with more time to recover and get more training done.

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes, he is still here. he changed his usermane (as alot of people do) and now has a new account for last couple of years. he is a very regular poster.

in interest of charter and fairness i dont think its acceptable however to mention his name.

No it wouldn't be, it would be up to him to come forward of course, unless he or anybody else wanted to PM with his new identity naturally

Good to know I wasnt imagining it though.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't think anyone who understands the point of the positions would argue that Mata isn't a far better number 10 than Rooney

The thing is Rooney's talent can see him score a ton of goals from any attacking position he plays so he's pretty much unplayable, you have to have him on the pitch somewhere, and his work rate is immense

That is a tiny sample size you're working from and for a lot of that time Rooney has been playing as a striker. I would predict that if we had a good sample of games to compare them both in the same position, Rooney would have more successful passes but fewer chances created than Mata, a similar number of goals and then all the defensive stuff that he brings.

That sounds like Mata is the better 10, but with this particular formation (narrow and with two strikers) it might well be the case that it's worth losing some Mata creativity to gain Rooney's dynamism.

keane2097 wrote: »

I would guess that if you normalised those receiving the ball stats to take out instances of receiving the ball on the touchline the results might look a fair bit different.

Having said that, I haven't checked and probably won't so...

I wouldn't be sure of that. From what I see, Mata likes to pull wide regularly enough.

I couldn't be arsed checking just now either.

kryogen

Mata does like to pull wide, I think its instinctive for him, he started off as a winger really. He tends to pull to where the space is though I guess and give how narrow the team currently is formation wise the space tends to be a little bit wider. even at Chelsea though he would often pop up left or right and play a little through ball or one-two to get himself into a better position to shoot/pass

SherlockWatson

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do City play with a 10? no they dont. -
do Arsenal play with a 10? i dont think they do. - l.
Real Madrid? again, they dont. -
bayern? unless people call Mueller a 10, which he isnt, no they dont.

City - Silva
Arsenal - Ozil
Real Madrid - Isco/Kroos/James
Bayern - Gotze


If you're a "coach" as you say, and you don't understand the roles of the players above, then I worry for the teams you'll be coaching tbh.

Nalz

Stop feeding him will yis!

Any ideas what the starting lineup will be vs West brom? is Smalling or Evans likely to feature?

Juan Mata is a number 10, saw someone say he wasn't. Never mind about former coaches not mentioning number 10, Jose Mourinho specifically said Oscar was his preferred number 10 over Mata.
Here's a link to an article where he talks at length about Mata being a number 10 and playing/not playing in the position:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2427361/Jose-Mourinho-tells-Mata-Oscar-choice-No-10-Chelsea.html

Rooney plays number 10 for us in the same way Oscar does for Chelsea and it seems the reasons he's preferred over Mata are the same reasons Oscar was preferred over Mata. The defensive side of their game. I don't particular agree with the decision, because I think Mata looks for the pass in the final third more often than Rooney who is more likely to shoot. Also think Mata's first touch is better. This is critical IMO when you've got Rvp and Falcao waiting for a good ball.

But yeah, we do play the number 10 position, it might not be called that at Man Utd, but that's because "number 10" isn't the only name for it.

RGDATA!

homerjay2005 wrote: »

This "number 10" role has become the most annoying and over-analyised position in football at this stage.

People are giving it far too much reference especially at United - most clubs/coaches dont even use i and its generally a sky sports concept thats caught on.

The concept of a number 10 was around long before Sky. LVG has regularly used the term since taking over, so if he uses it himself when talking of his own team then it's relevant surely?

Rayne Wooney

So people are annoyed that we are using a term that our manager frequently uses because it is a fundamental part of his philosophy

Nalz

10

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So people are annoyed that we are using a term that our manager frequently uses because it is a fundamental part of his philosophy

Oh no, not "people"

One person. who of course probably represents the sentiments of all the real every match going United fans and not just the boards.ie user.........or not

Headshot

Trilla wrote: »

10

9

Giggsy11

Headshot wrote: »

9

'false'

evo2000

What do ye make of juan mata - vidal swap rumors?

Giggsy11

Giggsy11 wrote: »

'false'

trequartista


*runs*