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Fluoride update re IQ

13567…18

Comments

  • #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    enno99 wrote: »
    Off hand can you tell me how much fluoride PG Tips and Barrys /Nestle add to their products ?
    Do they claim that their products are beneficial to dental health ?

    Between 1.7 and 3 mg/l according to Waugh so a cup of tea can have between 2.5 to 4.5 times the fluoride than a cup of water !

    Makes opposition to fluoridation seem silly considering how little fluoride we add to our water.

    Doesn't matter what they claim the fluoride still has the same effect.


  • #63
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    jh79 wrote: »
    Between 1.7 and 3 mg/l according to Waugh so a cup of tea can have between 2.5 to 4.5 times the fluoride than a cup of water !

    Makes opposition to fluoridation seem silly considering how little fluoride we add to our water.

    Doesn't matter what they claim the fluoride still has the same effect.

    How come they can add so much when the safe levels are lower or am I missing something ?


  • #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The safe levels refer to water fluoridation only.


  • #65
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    jh79 wrote: »
    The safe levels refer to water fluoridation only.

    So there are no regulations on companies adding fluoride to their products


  • #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    enno99 wrote: »
    So there are no regulations on companies adding fluoride to their products

    Food Safety Authority would ensure all consumer product are safe i suppose.

    So is tea medicine?


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  • #67
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    jh79 wrote: »
    Food Safety Authority would ensure all consumer product are safe i suppose.

    So is tea medicine?

    I wouldn't class it as one no
    mind you I drink gallons of the stuff :eek:

    Must do some research and find out how much they add and why
    Does it make it taste better ?


  • #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    enno99 wrote: »
    I wouldn't class it as one no
    mind you I drink gallons of the stuff :eek:

    Must do some research and find out how much they add and why
    Does it make it taste better ?

    So why class fluoridated water as medicine when it actually contains less fluoride than tea?


  • #69
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    jh79 wrote: »
    So why class fluoridated water as medicine when it actually contains less fluoride than tea?

    I dont class fluoridated water as medicine the people that tell you fluoride has dental Health benefits do


  • #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    enno99 wrote: »
    I dont class fluoridated water as medicine the people that tell you fluoride has dental Health benefits do

    They class it as a nutrient or mineral like those added to cereals and milk.


  • #71
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    jh79 wrote: »
    They class it as a nutrient or mineral like those added to cereals and milk.



    The WHO states that limitations to food fortification may include: human rights issues indicating that consumers have the right to choose if they want fortified products or not, the potential for insufficient demand of the fortified product, increased production costs leading to increased retail costs, the potential that the fortified products will still not be a solution to nutrient deficiencies amongst low income populations who may not be able to afford the new product, and children who may not be able to consume adequate amounts thereof.[2]

    Food safety worries led to legislation in Denmark in 2004 restricting foods fortified with extra vitamins or minerals. Products banned include: Rice Crispies, Shreddies, Horlicks, Ovaltine and Marmite.[9]

    Danes said [Kelloggs] Corn Flakes, Rice Krispies and Special K wanted to include "toxic" doses which, if eaten regularly, could damage children's livers and kidneys and harm fetuses in pregnant women.[10]


    Dont remember being asked if we wanted fluoridated water

    Anyway I cant find any info of tea companies adding fluoride to their tea
    Some teas have different levels ok but that's a natural occurrence
    Between 1.7 and 3 mg/l according to Waugh so a cup of tea can have between 2.5 to 4.5 times the fluoride than a cup of water !

    do you have a link


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  • #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Doesn't matter whether it is added or not it is the same substance.

    If you believe fluoride to be bad for you then from your viewpoint tea is 2.5 to 4 times more toxic.


  • #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Always wondered what Waugh was thinking when he released his figures for fluoride mg/l in tea makes a mockery of the idea that the approximate 0.4ppm we add could be of any significance from a toxicity point of view.

    A cup of irish water has multiples less levels of fluoride than the average tea bag!


  • #74
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    jh79 wrote: »
    Doesn't matter whether it is added or not it is the same substance.

    If you believe fluoride to be bad for you then from your viewpoint tea is 2.5 to 4 times more toxic.

    It matters precisely to my initial question
    If Irish Water are adding fluoride to the water as medication for dental health
    Do they need a license will they be liable for any adverse effects if they arise

    Or if They class it as a nutrient or mineral like those added to cereals and milk.

    why does this not apply

    The WHO states that limitations to food fortification may include: human rights issues indicating that consumers have the right to choose if they want fortified products or not

    But since you started out with a dishonest answer I dont hold out much hope


  • #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    enno99 wrote: »
    It matters precisely to my initial question
    If Irish Water are adding fluoride to the water as medication for dental health
    Do they need a license will they be liable for any adverse effects if they arise

    Or if They class it as a nutrient or mineral like those added to cereals and milk.

    why does this not apply

    The WHO states that limitations to food fortification may include: human rights issues indicating that consumers have the right to choose if they want fortified products or not

    But since you started out with a dishonest answer I dont hold out much hope

    When was i dishonest, you aren't a believer in the mythical substance known as natural fluoride are you?


  • #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do you consider the fluoride in tea to be "free range" or "organic" fluoride?


  • #77
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    jh79 wrote: »
    When was i dishonest, you aren't a believer in the mythical substance known as natural fluoride are you?

    I asked you how much the companies added to their products

    you answered
    Between 1.7 and 3 mg/l according to Waugh so a cup of tea can have between 2.5 to 4.5 times the fluoride than a cup of water !


    I gave you the benefit of the doubt and bolded the word add in the next question


  • #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    enno99 wrote: »
    I asked you how much the companies added to their products

    you answered
    Between 1.7 and 3 mg/l according to Waugh so a cup of tea can have between 2.5 to 4.5 times the fluoride than a cup of water !


    I gave you the benefit of the doubt and bolded the word add in the next question

    I assumed you were concerned about fluoride levels in what you consume, my mistake, so what are you concerned about if high fluoride levels aren't a problem?


  • #79
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    jh79 wrote: »
    I assumed you were concerned about fluoride levels in what you consume, my mistake, so what are you concerned about if high fluoride levels aren't a problem?

    You know what they sat about lies you need a bigger one each time ;)


  • #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    enno99 wrote: »
    You know what they sat about lies you need a bigger one each time ;)

    Did your question on tea have a relevant point? No matter how you spin it tea has more fluoride than fluoridated irish water.


  • #81
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    Did your question on tea have a relevant point? No matter how you spin it tea has more fluoride than fluoridated irish water.

    If you add it all up you might go over "safe levels"...

    I still cannot find valid info regarding daily exposure/intake of fluoride through all means available... Must be there because the safe level in water must be based on that as well.


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  • #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    If you add it all up you might go over "safe levels"...

    I still cannot find valid info regarding daily exposure/intake of fluoride through all means available... Must be there because the safe level in water must be based on that as well.

    I thought the SCHER report had it?
    Which safe level are you referring to?

    I think the EPA level of 4ppm is based on a formula used to find the human equivalent from animal studies in this case the neurotoxicity ones ( could be completely wrong on this).

    The lower ones are probably because nobody has found any correlation between low fluoride levels and adverse effects bar fluorosis above 1.2ppm.


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    If you add it all up you might go over "safe levels"...

    I still cannot find valid info regarding daily exposure/intake of fluoride through all means available... Must be there because the safe level in water must be based on that as well.

    Why go after the approx 0.4mg we add per litre of water when as a nation of tea drinkers we could be consuming up to 3-4 mg from only 3 cups of tea?

    Logical dictates you remove the highest contributors to your daily intake.

    Would you agree it is gonna be a hard sell to the general public when they are informed that their morning cup of tea could contain more fluoride than that added to the water they consume for the rest of the day?


  • #84
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    Would you agree it is gonna be a hard sell to the general public when they are informed that their morning cup of tea could contain more fluoride than that added to the water they consume for the rest of the day?

    I think its a hard sell promoting the benefits of adding fluoride to the water when its already in your tea


  • #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    I think its a hard sell promoting the benefits of adding fluoride to the water when its already in your tea

    True, but it's the scaremongering tactic that is more likely to be successful and that is gonna be a tough sell considering the fluoride levels in tea.


  • #86
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    True, but it's the scaremongering tactic that is more likely to be successful and that is gonna be a tough sell considering the fluoride levels in tea.

    Are you worried about tea sales ? .... People can opt out of drinking Tea


  • #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    Are you worried about tea sales ? .... People can opt out of drinking Tea
    Do believe that tea is dangerous to your health?

    The Councilor who proposed the motion was using the notion that fluoridation is dangerous.
    You've stated several times that you do not agree that it is dangerous.

    Are you ok that people are using false and debunked claims to ban it?


  • #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    Are you worried about tea sales ? .... People can opt out of drinking Tea

    If you believe fluoridated water is toxic then you also believe tea is toxic and some brands of bottled water are toxic. That two servings of spinach is toxic etc.

    Is tea medicine ? Why is fluoride in irish water toxic or medication but not the fluoride in tea or bottled water or spinach?


  • #89
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    King Mob wrote: »
    You've stated several times that you do not agree that it is dangerous

    Where did I state that ?

    And please stop the anwser a question with a question approach


  • #90
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    jh79 wrote: »
    If you believe fluoridated water is toxic then you also believe tea is toxic and some brands of bottled water are toxic. That two servings of spinach is toxic etc.

    Is tea medicine ? Why is fluoride in irish water toxic or medication but not the fluoride in tea or bottled water or spinach?

    Add it all up...... It's an uncontrolled daily intake that possibly exceeds what is deemed safe ... Wouldn't you agree ?


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  • #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weisses wrote: »
    Add it all up...... It's an uncontrolled daily intake that possibly exceeds what is deemed safe ... Wouldn't you agree ?

    No , because there is no evidence for adverse effects in any country with less than 1ppm flouride in their water. The first sign of getting close to an unsafe level would be fluorosis . Mild cosmetic only fluorosis indicates that we don't exceed the safe dose.


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