SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

Villain · 13-08-2014 8:20am

boardzz wrote: »

Have you anything to back up these statements?

This has been widely reported, i.e. that they won't compete in areas with Eircom or UPC but I can't see it set out in any detail.

However they have Carlow down as one of the towns they will roll out in and between efibre and UPC cable there are very few areas in the town with high density that are not yet serviced so how it can be economical viable to build out in Carlow but not service Eircom or UPC areas I have now idea.

Perhaps they are looking at the long term and realising that Copper and cable is not the future and FTTH offers far far more for the future over FTTC.

Johnboy1951 · 13-08-2014 8:38am

bk wrote:

The ESB/Vodafone JV have themselves specifically said that they will be targeting non UPC urban areas.

.... but not exclusively maybe?

So if they target a non-serviced area one might expect them to service all adjoining areas too.

7upfree · 13-08-2014 8:53am

boardzz wrote: »

Have you anything to back up these statements?

I would most certainly imagine BK has!

hallo dare · 13-08-2014 9:00am

http://irelandoffline.org/2014/07/esb-vodafone-joint-venture/

bk · 13-08-2014 9:37am

ED E wrote: »

A very worrying fact! We could easily end up in a situation like the US where they go out of their way to not compete with each other and screw the end user entirely.

It could happen, but I don't see it happening. What I expect will happen in the long term (as in 20 years from now) is that we may end up with two FTTH networks in all urban areas. Eircom and UPC in some areas, Eircom and ESB in the other areas.

At least one, if not all of these networks will be open to other operators using.

If that happens then we will have lots of nice competition, competition at both the infrastrcuture level and competition at the retail ISP level.

Having 3 FTTH networks would be nice, but probably over kill. I'd prefer to see the ESB focus in the long term on investing in and servicing rural Ireland.

dalta5billion wrote: »

If UPC brand their new access to ESB FTTH as "UPC now with wider coverage" they could easily gain a majority share of even ESB-served customers. What's more they can avail of fantastic economies of scale as it is, so probably could undercut all other operators by selling at below-cost.

UPC already benefit from fantastic economies of scale, they are the largest cable company in the world, operating all across Europe. Equipment like the Horizon box was developed by them and used in almost all their markets.

However UPC as a company don't really seem to go in for low margin and below cost selling. I'd like to see them use the ESB network, but they might not do it. Too little profit margin just being a retail ISP and not also owning the infrastructure. After all, they could already do this by reselling Eircoms VDSL product, but they haven't yet and they don't seem to do this sort of reselling elsewhere in Europe.

cunnijo wrote: »

The answer to all that is to keep UPC off the ESB network in order to give the other ISP's a fair playing field and provide healthy competition. Simples.

I don't think that would be a good thing, there really isn't any danger in allowing UPC to use the ESB network. Also I would imagine it would be illegal to open the network up to other ISP's but explicitly exclude one ISP.

To be honest, I'm not really seeing the danger people are talking about here.

ESB/Vodafone will own the infrastructure, so they will charge a rate for the use of this infrastructure that will make them a nice profit.

Eircom have their own network, so it won't bother them.

If UPC were to use the ESB network and undersell it (something I strongly doubt they will) then the only company who might suffer is Sky.

And I certainly won't cry any tears for Sky suffering!

Personally I'd be more worried Sky will use this network to resell their ISP services at below cost in order to maintain their death grip on the pay TV market.

UPC becoming stronger and balancing Sky's power would be a good thing.

boardzz wrote: »

Have you anything to back up these statements?

As supplied by hallo dare:

http://irelandoffline.org/2014/07/esb-vodafone-joint-venture/

The JV will NOT be targeting areas where UPC are “strong” this may lead to overlaps in some urban areas

As I mentioned there will be exception and areas where they overlap, but the idea is not to directly compete with UPC. And as I mentioned, it makes total business sense.

cunnijo · 13-08-2014 10:58am

Maybe this may be slightly off topic but may well still be relevant. Once this project is up and running who will regulate it?

As it currently stands Comreg control the ISP's that use the copper infrastructure and VDSL network (Eircom, etc) but have no control over UPC, as UPC is classed as a cable company and not a telco. As a matter of interest who regulates UPC if anybody knows?

This could potentially be a reason why UPC's network should be kept separate from the ESB/Vodafone one and in fairness give consumers a choice.

gordonnet · 16-08-2014 12:46am

Has the roll out begun ?

Spotted these on top of ESB poles in the Douglas area today. what are they ?

Davy · 16-08-2014 8:21am

gordonnet wrote: »

Has the roll out begun ?

Spotted these on top of ESB poles in the Douglas area today. what are they ?

It has been in place in parts of the country for over a year on trial.

Ordin73 · 25-09-2014 4:46pm

Ok the Vodafone/Esb Reps are in three estates in the Cavan area offering a free trial of fibre-to-the-Building broadband promising speeds of 1000Mbps or 1Gig.

Apparently the first in the country to be offered this service.
Sounds good to me!!!

AlanS181824 · 25-09-2014 4:47pm

Ordin73 wrote: »

Ok the Vodafone/Esb Reps are in three estates in the Cavan area offering a free trial of fibre-to-the-Building broadband promising speeds of 1000Mbps or 1Gig.
Apparently the first in the country to be offered this service.
Sounds good to me!!!

FREE? Sweet mother! Time to move to Cavan!

Ordin73 · 25-09-2014 4:57pm

AlanS181824 wrote: »

FREE? Sweet mother! Time to move to Cavan!

LOL I wouldn't go THAT far!!!!!!!!!!!
But as I said Apparently... You just have to agree to participate in some kind of monthly surveys.
Installations begin on the 6th of October.:cool:

AlanS181824 · 25-09-2014 5:05pm

Ordin73 wrote: »

LOL I wouldn't go THAT far!!!!!!!!!!!
But as I said Apparently... You just have to agree to participate in some kind of monthly surveys.
Installations begin on the 6th of October.:cool:

Yeah Cavan is a bit of a kip... Okay that's mean, now that they've FTTH....

I genuinely wouldn't mind, free internet for a couple of minutes of your time a month?

Hurry up and launch in Carlow ESB!:pac:

Ordin73 · 25-09-2014 5:19pm

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Yeah Cavan is a bit of a kip... Okay that's mean, now that they've FTTH....

LOL I agree, these kind of offers are not the usual in Cavan...hence here I am on boards letting every one know about about it...even our poor cousins in ...hmmm ..I dont know...say Carlow

bloodyhawk · 25-09-2014 10:46pm

When will it be our turn?

Edit...
Ordin, make sure to post some speedtest results when you get your hands on the goods!

Ordin73 · 25-09-2014 11:06pm

[QUOTE=Ordin, make sure to post some speedtest results when you get your hands on the goods![/QUOTE]

No Problem Bloodyhawk

Ive got E-Fibre at the moment at its best I get
3554722388.png

But it does drop alot lower that this at times

Johnboy1951 · 26-09-2014 8:21am

Ordin73 wrote: »

No Problem Bloodyhawk
Ive got E-Fibre at the moment at its best I get
3554722388.png

But it does drop alot lower that this at times

I would have an upgrade at 10% of that

To display the image click the 'image'

icon and enter the URL.

Manc Red · 26-09-2014 2:37pm

Ordin73 wrote: »

Ok the Vodafone/Esb Reps are in three estates in the Cavan area offering a free trial of fibre-to-the-Building broadband promising speeds of 1000Mbps or 1Gig.
Apparently the first in the country to be offered this service.
Sounds good to me!!!

When do you get it and what do they have to do to install it?

Ordin73 · 26-09-2014 2:52pm

Manc Red wrote: »

When do you get it and what do they have to do to install it?

Last year the ESB did alot of work in the area. They had to lay all the cable, right up to each and every one of the house's and they installed a number of junction boxes in each area.
As for the actual installation as far as I know it involves drilling a hole through the wall to physically connect the cable to a faceplate in the house which is then connected to a router.... I was told the make and model but I've forgotten. All this is scheduled to start on the 6th of October.

Manc Red · 26-09-2014 4:18pm

Ordin73 wrote: »

Last year the ESB did alot of work in the area. They had to lay all the cable, right up to each and every one of the house's and they installed a number of junction boxes in each area.
As for the actual installation as far as I know it involves drilling a hole through the wall to physically connect the cable to a faceplate in the house which is then connected to a router.... I was told the make and model but I've forgotten. All this is scheduled to start on the 6th of October.

When you say they put cable up to everyone's homes, did they dig a trench up the houses or how was this done?

ukoda · 26-09-2014 4:37pm

Manc Red wrote: »

When you say they put cable up to everyone's homes, did they dig a trench up the houses or how was this done?

they usually can "push" cables through the pipes from the nearest junction box, i hear that ESB have been laying fibre for years on their network, wouldn't surprise me if most houses could be connected pretty easily

im intereted in how they get the the modem in to the house tho.

Assuming its where the outside meter box is located that the cable comes in - that going to create a few problems for some people, i know in my house if they drilled into the wall where my meter box is located outside - then the cable would come in to my house about half way up my stairs

Ordin73 · 26-09-2014 5:29pm

ukoda wrote: »

they usually can "push" cables through the pipes from the nearest junction box, i hear that ESB have been laying fibre for years on their network, wouldn't surprise me if most houses could be connected pretty easily

That IS how it was done..they opened up the junction boxes and PUSHED thru the cables. Now it wasn't exactly as easy as that, there were a few trenches that had to be dug and we were without power for a FEW days on and off in the weeks running up to Christmas because of it.

As for exactly where the cable comes in, I will tell you when I know myself. I was shown a picture illustrating what would need to be done but what ever the reality is remains to be seen.

Joo0 · 26-09-2014 5:58pm

What will they do for those who do not have cables above ground? Is the targeting above ground cable areas only?

Ordin73 · 26-09-2014 6:11pm

Joo0 wrote: »

What will they do for those who do not have cables above ground? Is the targeting above ground cable areas only?

I dont think you understand what I mean..the installers that were working in estates where they would open up manholes and push the new fibre cables in along the existing powerlines that connect to each house. Hence the term Fibre-to-the-Building. The system utilizes the existing infrastructure ie the lines that the power cables run in. So customers get a true fibre broadband connection rather than the eircom version which uses the cabinets and phone line to house version.

bk · 27-09-2014 2:18pm

Ordin73 wrote: »

I was told the make and model but I've forgotten. All this is scheduled to start on the 6th of October.

It would be awesome if you could detail the entire process here on boards.

Make and model of the routers, OTN's etc. and description and even better pictures of the install process would be brilliant and would give us an idea of what the rollout will look like.

Johnboy1951 · 27-09-2014 2:30pm

@Ordin73

Just one question ..... what three estates are involved?

Maybe it is time to consider a move ....

jca · 27-09-2014 3:36pm

bk wrote: »

It would be awesome if you could detail the entire process here on boards.

Make and model of the routers, OTN's etc. and description and even better pictures of the install process would be brilliant and would give us an idea of what the rollout will look like.

Awesome? Helpful or interesting maybe but certainly not awesome. We'll be "going forward" next.... I fear the eyelids of the defunct Celtic Tiger are starting to flutter into wakefulness. Be afraid, be very afraid.....

dbit · 01-10-2014 11:18am

UPC have been using docsis 3.0 modems for over a year , I know very well , they only need to enable more channels on CMTS systems. The security of this network is shody at best . They still run doc 2 and 1 as migration takes along time - they do not really have the modem cloning loop fully closed.

bk · 01-10-2014 1:05pm

dbit wrote: »

UPC have been using docsis 3.0 modems for over a year , I know very well , they only need to enable more channels on CMTS systems. The security of this network is shody at best . They still run doc 2 and 1 as migration takes along time - they do not really have the modem cloning loop fully closed.

I'm not sure why this is in this thread, has nothing to do with ESB/Vodafone.

UPC have being using DOCSIS 3.0 modems for more then 4 years now!

DOCSIS 2.0 only goes up to 30mb/s, so any service with speeds higher then that uses DOCSIS 3.0. I assume that the vast majority of UPC customers are now on D3.0 modems by now.

The only ones left on DOCSIS 2.0 are probably a very small minority left in nodes that haven't been upgraded for the higher speed products yet.

dbit · 01-10-2014 2:21pm

bk wrote: »

I'm not sure why this is in this thread, has nothing to do with ESB/Vodafone.

UPC have being using DOCSIS 3.0 modems for more then 4 years now!

DOCSIS 2.0 only goes up to 30mb/s, so any service with speeds higher then that uses DOCSIS 3.0. I assume that the vast majority of UPC customers are now on D3.0 modems by now.

The only ones left on DOCSIS 2.0 are probably a very small minority left in nodes that haven't been upgraded for the higher speed products yet.

A few posts back someone was on aobut the comparison forgot to quote. my bad.

The standard of docsis 3.0 is not yet used on any modem nor has it been yet and up to now. Its on on the CMTS side to allow the higher "Bonding" levels to engage more channels and get faster download speeds.
MOD: Removed details that might lead to theft of service
you will see doc 1 and 2 in use not 3.

bk · 01-10-2014 2:25pm

MOD: dbit, please don't post information that might be used to steal service or hack a cable system. It is against the rules of this forum. No problem talking about the other issues.

dbit · 01-10-2014 2:28pm

people should be informed about the security risk that is hole open on UPC , understood the part thats been removed, agreed . just UPC are not as safe as they lead you to believe . Vectoring hacks are growing by the day as its new technology also.

dbit · 01-10-2014 3:13pm

Getting back on track apologies to the Mod for swinging my genitalia a bit .

https://www.engineersireland.ie/EngineersIreland/media/SiteMedia/groups/Divisions/electrical-electronic/Technical_Trial_of_Broadband_IPInternet_over_ESB_Power_Networks.pdf?ext=.pdf

This has the design spec and some nice images of how to spot if they are rolling out in your town or not. Test phase info in there also as it seemed that the early stages of tests were going to be abandoned all together. Enter Vodafone who have already deployed similar networks in other European countries in tandem with power suppliers.

Cannot wait for ESB to crush Eircom , its going to happen eventually. Eircom have not got the financial muster or investment to go ftth where as ESB/Voda do.

Its an old doc but just to show how long they have this in the pipeline and possibly some of the termination tech is now of a more recent technology.

Johnboy1951 · 01-10-2014 4:00pm

dbit wrote: »

Getting back on track apologies to the Mod for swinging my genitalia a bit .

https://www.engineersireland.ie/EngineersIreland/media/SiteMedia/groups/Divisions/electrical-electronic/Technical_Trial_of_Broadband_IPInternet_over_ESB_Power_Networks.pdf?ext=.pdf

This has the design spec and some nice images of how to spot if they are rolling out in your town or not. Test phase info in there also as it seemed that the early stages of tests were going to be abandoned all together. Enter Vodafone who have already deployed similar networks in other European countries in tandem with power suppliers.

Cannot wait for ESB to crush Eircom , its going to happen eventually. Eircom have not got the financial muster or investment to go ftth where as ESB/Voda do.

Its an old doc but just to show how long they have this in the pipeline and possibly some of the termination tech is now of a more recent technology.

Is that not about IP on the power lines rather than the present roll-out of fibre cable strung along with power lines?

ED E · 01-10-2014 4:01pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Is that not about IP on the power lines rather than the present roll-out of fibre cable strung along with power lines?

It is, and thus isnt very relevant.

jca · 01-10-2014 4:02pm

dbit wrote: »

Getting back on track apologies to the Mod for swinging my genitalia a bit .

https://www.engineersireland.ie/EngineersIreland/media/SiteMedia/groups/Divisions/electrical-electronic/Technical_Trial_of_Broadband_IPInternet_over_ESB_Power_Networks.pdf?ext=.pdf

This has the design spec and some nice images of how to spot if they are rolling out in your town or not. Test phase info in there also as it seemed that the early stages of tests were going to be abandoned all together. Enter Vodafone who have already deployed similar networks in other European countries in tandem with power suppliers.

Cannot wait for ESB to crush Eircom , its going to happen eventually. Eircom have not got the financial muster or investment to go ftth where as ESB/Voda do.

Its an old doc but just to show how long they have this in the pipeline and possibly some of the termination tech is now of a more recent technology.

Did you read any of the pdf? It has nothing to do with FTTH, it concludes that the whole trial was a complete flop.

dbit · 02-10-2014 8:19am

I did mention on this that its old , and that its referring to outdated technology more to show ESB have been trying to engineer a solution since 2006 .

PeadarB · 03-10-2014 6:55pm

I was wondering how the EU JV application was progressing so I visited the Commissions site only to learn that "the European Commission has 25 working days after a deal is filed for a first-stage review. It may extend that by 10 working days to 35 working days, to consider either a company's proposed remedies or an EU member state's request to handle the case.
Most mergers win approval but occasionally the Commission opens a detailed second-stage investigation for up to 90 additional working days, which it may extend to 105 working days".

It seems that the first stage review should complete by 31st October having been lodged with the EU on 29th September though the timeframe would indicate a 35 day timeframe for some reason or other.

Hopefully this can move on quickly to enable commencement of the roll-out.

doconn · 08-10-2014 4:57pm

While the technology is there and everyone seems pretty sure this will happen, actual rollout dates still seem a bit vague.

Has anyone (someone mentioned a rollout in Cavan already?) actually subscribed to a test phase yet?

I've emailed ESB and Vodafone to see if they can shed any (bright) light on it? Nothing yet though....

Here in Co. Laois, there is talk that early 2015 is a distinct possibility

(although hopeful broadband gossip is nothing new to rural areas...)

Any insight welcome....tks

murphaph · 08-10-2014 8:21pm

The towns the ESB will target have been named publically. Are you living in one?

doconn · 09-10-2014 7:15am

hi... I'm living about 4km outside Portlaoise which is a targeted town...I expect it will happen but would like to have a better idea of when (before I change FWA/satellite providers again)

Ordin73 · 09-10-2014 4:49pm

Ok Guys I had the Fibre Installed..and have a few pics

boardzz · 09-10-2014 4:55pm

Is it working? Is it 1Gbps?

Manc Red · 09-10-2014 4:56pm

Nice. How long did it take?

Is the service active yet?

Do you still have the old broadband connection i.e do you still have both?

Ordin73 · 09-10-2014 4:59pm

Liamario · 09-10-2014 5:18pm

Is it active? Speed? We need the infoozzzz!!!

Its Only Ray Parlour · 09-10-2014 5:18pm

It's beautiful!

Ordin73 · 09-10-2014 5:20pm

At the moment I have still have my Eircom fibre Broadband AND the new Esb/Vodafone Fibre as advised by the installers. The main reason for this is the service is still in its early stages and the connection "may" be inconsistent as testing and maintenance continues.

The installation was very efficient, the conduit was previously installed and they just had to feed the connecting cable thru to the ESB meter box. Then a outside box was installed. A single hole was drilled into the house, the cable passed in, and then fitted to a simple white wall plate. This is then connected to the "Alcatel Lucent" ie the black box in the photograph. I was told that this is where the light is converted to data and in-turn this connects to the router.
The router used is a white Huawei HG659.
I haven't done any proper speed tests as yet but when I can I will let you know all the results

lucast2007us · 09-10-2014 5:26pm

Ordin73 wrote: »

At the moment I have still have my Eircom fibre Broadband AND the new Esb/Vodafone Fibre as advised by the installers. The main reason for this is the service is still in its early stages and the connection "may" be inconsistent as testing and maintenance continues.

The installation was very efficient, the conduit was previously installed and they just had to feed the connecting cable thru to the ESB meter box. Then a outside box was installed. A single hole was drilled into the house, the cable passed in, and then fitted to a simple white wall plate. This is then connected to the "Alcatel Lucent" ie the black box in the photograph. I was told that this is where the light is converted to data and in-turn this connects to the router.
The router used is a white Huawei HG659.
I haven't done any proper speed tests as yet but when I can I will let you know all the results

Its like fecking Christmas!

TCP/IP · 09-10-2014 5:29pm

How did you get picked for the trial?

lucast2007us · 09-10-2014 5:34pm

Ordin73 wrote: »

At the moment I have still have my Eircom fibre Broadband AND the new Esb/Vodafone Fibre as advised by the installers. The main reason for this is the service is still in its early stages and the connection "may" be inconsistent as testing and maintenance continues.

The installation was very efficient, the conduit was previously installed and they just had to feed the connecting cable thru to the ESB meter box. Then a outside box was installed. A single hole was drilled into the house, the cable passed in, and then fitted to a simple white wall plate. This is then connected to the "Alcatel Lucent" ie the black box in the photograph. I was told that this is where the light is converted to data and in-turn this connects to the router.
The router used is a white Huawei HG659.
I haven't done any proper speed tests as yet but when I can I will let you know all the results

Its like fecking Christmas!

SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

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