Petrol stretching - what insurance companies cover the damage

What station was it?

nicol wrote: »

I'm not naming the station, I want to get information on insurance companies covering damaged engines. This isn't a name and shame thread.

Can I ask how you know it is dodgy fuel?

If it's because your mechanic said so then I wouldn't pay that any heed tbh

If you want to pursue this in a correct way then you need to do the following;

The only way you know it's dodgy fuel is by having it analysed by someone like Independent Labs (they are based in Dublin 3) or another verified testing center, a mechanic showing you a filter, a bottle of discoloured fuel or a blown injector is not an accurate reason.

And what you need tested is not what is in your tank, what is in your tank is quite irrelevant and inadmissible, it's what is in the stations storage tanks that is the issue. And no, even if it's been a month the sample will still show irregularities even if it has been filled up 20 times since then. The station will not be able to cover any irregularities up in that manner.

Your first point of call is to go to the garage concerned. Explain the issue you have calmly, together you take 2 agreed samples from them. Use suitable containers with anti-tamper lids, most reputable stations keep them onsite for this occurance, you sign and date the samples and so does the manager/owner. One of the samples is then submitted to a lab, you pay the testing fee (approx €250) and upon the results returning if the fuel is found to be contaminated it is preagreed that the station is fully responsible for doing whatever is required to rectify the situation to your satisfaction.

If the sample comes back clean then that's the end of the matter. The reports are extremely detailed and precise, there is no room for doubt in them.

The one thing to be careful of is a lot is sites will have 2 unl and 1 derv tank, sometimes the unl tanks are manifold, sometimes not, to be secure in it take the sample from the pump you used previously - seperate tanks will be allocated to specific pumps.

I have been through this process maybe 30 or 40 times over the years, all from mechanics saying 'that's dirty etc fuel'. In every single circumstance it's come back that our fuel is extremely good quality. Tbh in the case of a reputable station this doesn't happen barring a mistake, if we do get a bad delivery (ie where a driver puts kero or derv into a unl tank) then we deal with it professionally, if there is a issue like this then in reality we will have large numbers of customers back as there would easily be 20k+ liters involved and therefore your swamped with issues. Your put your hands up, admit the issue and deal with it. All the reputable brands operate in this manner. It's part of the business.

Finally these new petrol issues have all raised there heads since it's been on Joe Duffy etc, this practice has being going on for about 4 years amoung the unscrupulous independents who previously dealt in washed derv but no longer can get supply due to Revenues new ROMs legislation essentially eliminating almost all washed derv. It seems a lot of people are suddenly saying they have damaged engines from striped unl in the past fortnight despite it being around for years.

If you wish to pm me the station I should pretty much be able to give you a very accurate opinion of the likelihood of them selling striped unl. These sites are all very well know within the industry. I am happy to advise or help you as best I can if you wish.

Such a simple problem to fix by the state with random testing yet they do nothing despite the penal motoring taxes we pay. Should be loss of licence to sell fuel, name and shame of premises and a massive fine.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057293209

Two threads in the same day.

If you want proper recourse, then you are going to have to take Bandara's advice. Anything less won't stand up in court which is likely where this will go. I highly, highly doubt a branded station would be involved in this as they are buying and delivering in bulk. Buy cheap, buy twice.

Focus_sligo wrote: »

If your engine has been damaged as a result of the bad petrol at the minute, the insurance company will send the accessor out to look at the engine, take a fuel sample from the car, take a carbon sample from the crown of the pistons and send them for testing.

Most companies are paying out at present because it's a case of criminal damage to your car. That is what an accessor told is in the garage Thursday when he was inspecting two engines with us

Very surprised to hear any insurance co. Would cover an engine damaged by contaminated fuel. If this is the case then all Diesel engines damaged by laundered fuel would also be covered.
I know in the case of malicious damage you are required to prove malicious intent. This would not be the primary motivation of the petro stretchers.

Without being libelous, and carefully using the word allegedly, what stations are actually in question here? Are we talking branded, fully fledged stations or franchises?

nicol wrote: »

I've been in contact with my insurance company and unsurprisingly they aren't willing to cover the damage. As a goodwill gesture they will cover the cost of cleaning the fuel lines and tank, as long as the engine is stripped back so they can take a sample from the cylinder. Stripping back the engine will cost about a days labour and they are not saying that they will cover this cost!

I think my only option now is to argue that it falls under malicious damage rather than a mechanical issue, but I don't hold out much hope!!

I don't mean to be smart here but I wrote you a long highly accurate and informed reply in order to guide you how to proceed. Did you do anything to act upon my comments ?

I outlined the only recourse you had in order to deal with the issue correctly and protect yourself

I'm not some punter waffling on a website, This is my industry, I deal with this daily. The way you are going about this is going to end up with you paying for everything.

I'm trying to help you.

nicol wrote: »

Sorry, I wasn't ignoring your post and appreciate the help but I just wonder how much use it would be to me. You see any of the petrol stations that have been mentioned in my locality as selling petrol to people affected have been tested. As far as I know they have all come back clear, so I don't see the point in wasting €250 carrying out a test that has already been done by customs and excise. I don't know if the scale of the problem is being fully understood by people outside the areas affected, there are dozens of petrol stations being mentioned and hundreds of cars damaged by stretched petrol.
I think any of the fuel is long gone at this stage, it is reckoned that it was June and July when it was circulating.

I think the point can be made that if you are serious about pursuing this, then its €250 well spent. Because if you don't, and the stations are all clear, then insurance company will most likely contact Customs they will say the samples are clear. They will then, most likely, take a sample from your car. If that sample isn't clear then you are up the creek so to speak as they'll just say you filled up somewhere else.

Its always better to make your own case in parallel to the insurance company as at least then you have a leg to stand on should they begin to argue against you. If you had a sample from your car, their station and it came back as being contaminated then you have a pretty strong case.

€250 is small fry compared to the cost of replacing an engine.

nicol wrote: »

The point I was making is that the petrol is long gone from the stations involved, so I think that it would be pointless asking for a sample.

Without being smart, how do you know? Do you have that in writing? From an official source? The paper, talking to someone and here doesn't count. I mean headed paper from a testing lab or Customs.

Forget about the insurance companies for a second, we all know they are useless, you could easily take a case against the garage and the only way to do that is to follow the advice given above. For €250, I'd definitely be taking my chances with an independent test.