Asking A Father's Permission

Shenshen · 01-10-2014 10:18AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

There's seems to be a good many posters here object to the idea or feel insulted by the idea on the basis that a man must view a woman as 'property' if he asks her fathers permission to marry his daughter, or object to the idea on the basis that it's between the couple and it's nobody else's business.

I can only speak for myself when I say that neither thought ever occurred to me. I would never view anyone as 'property', but if I'm expecting to marry a man's daughter, I'm asking for his permission to become my father in law and accept me into his family, as part of his family.

If her father had refused, then I wouldn't have asked his daughter to marry me, as I feel that would be me imposing myself on his family. I was lucky in that I already got on well with all my wife's family already, because their opinion is important to me too.

As for the whole "didn't ask his permission to have sex", no, I didn't, but I wasn't asking to become part of his family then. That much is between myself and my wife at least, so I see no correlation between the two. In my view at least, there's nothing wrong with asking her father's permission to become part of his family, even if it was never tradition.

I'm not sure if you're even realising it, but you're talking about your father in law as if he not only used to own your wife, he owns the entire family...

I get the idea of asking to be part of the family, but shouldn't you then actually ask the entire family, not just the one person?

AndonHandon · 01-10-2014 10:18AM

I would inform the father of my intention to marry his daughter and request his blessing, then it is up to him whether to accept it or not. That seems courteous to me, the mother would get too emotional and most likely tell the bride in advance of the proposal so I couldn't ask her.

indigo twist · 01-10-2014 10:22AM

I can imagine my father's reaction if he was asked. "Err ... I don't know ... isn't she the person you should be asking?"

I agree with what others have said about it showing lack of respect for all involved. And apart from anything else, can you imagine the anticlimax?

Him: Will you marry me?
Her: Yesss! Yay I'm so excited, I can't wait to tell my family, they'll be so happy and surprised!
Him: Eh, actually they already know ...

Yeah screw that, I think it's only fair that I know about my own engagement before anyone else is told/asked about it!

loubian · 01-10-2014 10:25AM

My aunt recently got engaged and her fiancé told my gran beforehand. My grandad died in 2000. Don't know if he asked or just said it, but I thought it was nice.

I myself would like my future fiancé to mention it - like someone said before "I'm going to ask your daughter to marry me".. I wouldn't like him to ask my father, but I think it would be nice for my father to know before

enda1 · 01-10-2014 10:27AM

I find it would show a lack of respect to the girl to ask the father.
However, what I find amusing is that many people who think like me would still (have the bride) walk down the aisle in the church with her father. Walk down together damn it! Show the world that she is (/you are) not property to be handed from one family to another. You can't have it both ways.

Jenda · 01-10-2014 10:28AM

I didn't want to do it when I proposed earlier this year and I was uncomfortable with the idea of asking for reasons other posters mentioned above but my parents (who knew I was proposing and helped me plan some of it) were fairly insistent that it would look like a snub if I didn't.

So I did like an "I just want to let you know that I'm going to be doing this next week, and I'd like you to be ok with it" type thing - where it wasn't like I was asking his permission as some gatekeeper to a grown adult woman's life choices.

He got a bit misty-eyed about it and we left as friends, with him promising not to breath a word to the rest of the family beforehand.

And happily he didn't - my personal feeling was that it was already a bit annoying that sheer convention dictated that my fiancé couldn't be the one to break the big exciting news to her own father that she was going to be getting married, as she obviously has a much deeper personal connection to him than I do, so I was delighted the rest of the family weren't spoiled ahead of time as well.

Looking back I probably wouldn't do it again (if it was ok that her mother and sisters and granny and so on all got to find out and share the moment with her and be excited when she did, then in that case why does he need advance warning over everyone else?!) but both sets of families are happy that I did it so... fine. :P

michael.dublin · 01-10-2014 10:29AM

I asked her dad for permission, as I think it is part of the marriage tradition, and well maybe I am a bit old fashion, but I felt it was the right thing to do
Never forget his response… is that all you want me for :-)

foreverandever · 01-10-2014 10:29AM

I can see why people might be for or against it but I just can't see why people would be insulted by it. I think everyone knows that no disrespect is meant and that it's supposed to be a nice gesture.

And at the end of the day I think most couples will have discussed it at one point or another whether they would like it done or not and then it's a case of each to their own.

ronjo · 01-10-2014 10:31AM

Bodie Uptight Squad wrote: »

I was told off my by father in law for not talking to him first.
I let me off due to the distance between us and the language barrier.
In 7 years we've never sat down on our own to have a conversation. We always need a translator.

We paid for our own wedding here and the inlaws flights and hotel and then they threw a party the following week when we went over.

I am living in the same country as your wife is from and its not tradition here as far as I am aware to ask the father.

Maybe he was actually telling you werent worthy of his daughter and the translator decided not to pass that on :pac:

01-10-2014 10:35AM

Sugar Free wrote: »

For me, discussing with a partner whether or not asking for blessing/permission etc. is required is one such adaptation.

.

Most people like the proposal to be a surprise, often on a trip away etc so telling the person you are asking their father would ruin the whole surprise. Its really something between the man and his future father in law.

Balmed Out · 01-10-2014 10:41AM

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

Most people like the proposal to be a surprise, often on a trip away etc so telling the person you are asking their father would ruin the whole surprise. Its really something between the man and his future father in law.

Some other acquaintance is bound to have done it previously and you should know her opinion from that, if she has a strong opinion at least.

Sugar Free · 01-10-2014 10:50AM

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

Most people like the proposal to be a surprise, often on a trip away etc so telling the person you are asking their father would ruin the whole surprise. Its really something between the man and his future father in law.

Ageed, sure it would be plain as day what you intended to do then!

I mean when a couple discuss the idea of getting married - even if it's way in the distance - these things tend to come up and I personally made a point of discussing it so I would know.

osarusan · 01-10-2014 10:53AM

well I wouldn't want to marry anybody who didn't want to marry me if I wanted to ask her father first, so HA!

padd b1975 · 01-10-2014 10:55AM

I wish I had asked, he might have said no...

Billgirlylegs · 01-10-2014 11:03AM

Wellyd wrote: »

I had this conversation recently with someone who said they'd be insulted if their husband to be asked her dad for his permission to marry her. Honestly I'd be very disappointed in my boyfriend if he didn't ask my dad. Myself and my dad have an extremely good relationship and I'd love to know that he gave the nod for me to get married. I just think it gives fathers a bit of involvement in the engagement because I know in my family my mother would get so worked up and excited about an engagement that my dad probably wouldn't get a word in edge ways for a while!

Why didn't you tell your dad yourself ?

Speaking for myself, I would appreciate being the first (really, second to her mammy) to be told after the question was asked (and answered).

Having one responsible adult ask for permission to marry my adult daughter strikes me as strange.

uck51js9zml2yt · 01-10-2014 11:03AM

ronjo wrote: »

I am living in the same country as your wife is from and its not tradition here as far as I am aware to ask the father.

Maybe he was actually telling you werent worthy of his daughter and the translator decided not to pass that on :pac:

He referred to me as his son in his speech..he's only 9 years older than me

He never referred to his daughter in law as his daughter and she's never let us forget it.

I suppose it depends on which part of Sk your from. He's up north.

hadepsx · 01-10-2014 11:09AM

This is like that song "rude"

Tarzana · 01-10-2014 11:20AM

Wompa1 wrote: »

I don't think so. I think it's just showing respect to the father...but not asking\giving the heads up isn't really disrespect.

What about showing respect to your future wife?

I'd be really annoyed that if my father knew before me.

AudreyHepburn · 01-10-2014 11:27AM

lazygal wrote: »

My husband didn't ask and I wouldn't have liked it. I was a grown woman and didn't need my father's approval to marry.

You do know that's no what it's about right? Not anymore.

It's just about respect and tradition.

In my case, I don't think my Dad would expect to be asked as such but I do think he would well impressed that my partner respected him and thought highly enough of him to ask.

Neither Dad nor I would consider that he owns me but he is the man who helped give me life and raised me so I think his opinions count for something.

Jenda · 01-10-2014 11:29AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You do know that's no what it's about right? Not anymore.

It's just about respect and tradition.

In my case, I don't think my Dad would expect to be asked as such but I do think he would well impressed that my partner respected him and thought highly enough of him to ask.

Neither Dad nor I would consider that he owns me but he is the man who helped give me life and raised me so I think his opinions count for something.

Why should he not find out at the same time as your mother though, is what I'm wondering - why do fathers need advance notice of upcoming engagements and not usually any of the rest of the family who are happy to find out when she does?

AudreyHepburn · 01-10-2014 11:35AM

Jenda wrote: »

Why should he not find out at the same time as your mother though, is what I'm wondering - why do fathers need advance notice of upcoming engagements and not usually any of the rest of the family who are happy to find out when she does?

I don't think anyone is saying he needs to know first, just that to some of us it shows respect and it's a nice thoughtful gesture.

Tarzana · 01-10-2014 11:54AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying he needs to know first, just that to some of us it shows respect and it's a nice thoughtful gesture.

Genuinely interested - why does it show respect? Why the father? What marks him out? I'm interested to try and understand the thought process behind it.

Badly Drunk Boy · 01-10-2014 12:04PM

Both of my brothers-in-law asked my father, and my third sister is getting married on Friday, and I reckon my brother-in-law-to-be asked as well.

I'll probably never get married but I'd hate to have to do it, but I probably would if I thought it was expected. I don't see any harm in it. My last long-term girlfriend's father died when she was a teeager so it wouldn't have been an issue.

jill_valentine · 01-10-2014 12:08PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You do know that's no what it's about right? Not anymore.

It's just about respect and tradition.

Respect to who? Certainly not the bride, nor anybody else in her family. It's a tradition that only respects her father, and doesn't have counterparts for the other family members. Why is that? Why is it "tradition" to only respect the bride's father in this? Answer that and you'll see why people dislike it so much.

I think very highly of my sister's partner. My estimation of him would plummet through the floor if he did this, but more than that, the chances of getting her to say yes would too.

Some traditions die out for good reasons. This one, like dowries and circumcision, ought to be eyeing the bin IMHO.

01-10-2014 12:20PM

Tarzana wrote: »

Genuinely interested - why does it show respect? Why the father? What marks him out? I'm interested to try and understand the thought process behind it.

The father is traditionally seen as head of the family and also it's a man to man scenario (new son-in-law joining the family) so it makes sense that the person asks the father of his bride to be.

I think some people are very anti-tradition for the sake of it and its sad to see really.

jill_valentine wrote: »

Some traditions die out for good reasons. This one, like dowries and circumcision, ought to be eyeing the bin IMHO.

Thankfully its not though, I know a lot of people who are getting or have gotten married in the last year or so and they have all asked or if it was the woman I know her husband asked her father. It also has made for a funny story at the wedding in a lot of cases as the groom to be was so nervous asking etc and always got a good laugh. Its almost unheard of not to ask in Ireland.

tigger123 · 01-10-2014 12:25PM

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

The father is traditionally seen as head of the family and also it's a man to man scenario (new son-in-law joining the family) so it makes sense that the person asks the father of his bride to be.

I think some people are very anti-tradition for the sake of it and its sad to see really.

Thankfully its not though, I know a lot of people who are getting or have gotten married in the last year or so and they have all asked or if it was the woman I know her husband asked her father. It also has made for a funny story at the wedding in a lot of cases as the groom to be was so nervous asking etc and always got a good laugh.

All tradition means is that things don't change.

FactCheck · 01-10-2014 12:26PM

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

The father is traditionally seen as head of the family and also it's a man to man scenario (new son-in-law joining the family) so it makes sense that the person asks the father of his bride to be.

I think some people are very anti-tradition for the sake of it and its sad to see really.

There's nothing "the sake of it" in what you describe above. The vast majority of modern couples in Ireland (and that includes couples in late middle age with grown-up children ready to marry) don't operate on a "head of the household" system any more.

I don't know a single family who makes decisions like that. Literally every couple I know makes decisions mutually. Especially massive decisions like this one.

That's my big objection. It's just daft. Who are people kidding? Mammy and Daddy are equally important when comes to having their blessing for a wedding. Daddy doesn't, and hasn't, made the big decisions on his own for generations. And that's how it should be. Couples should be equal.

Shenshen · 01-10-2014 12:26PM

tigger123 wrote: »

All tradition means is that things don't change.

As someone paraphrased it for me one day : "It means it's broke, but we ain't fixin' it".

If traditions still have a purpose, nobody calls them traditions. They call it common sense.
Once they lose the purpose, that's when people start referring to "tradtions"

kryogen · 01-10-2014 12:27PM

I spoke to him before asking. I didn't ask for permission to "marry" his daughter, I told him I planned to ask her and asked him what he thought of it, his opinion was important to me. It kinda ticks all boxes, it isn't disrespectful to my partner since it was still her decision, it was more that I was asking her father, who she was very close to if he was going to give me his blessing to be the man she would be spending the rest of her life with. If, he, man to man had told me he did not approve of me or think I was good enough for his daughter it wouldn't have stopped me asking her but it would have left me in no doubt where we stood with each other and I am always happy to know where I stand, regardless.

Thankfully he said yes and I know he appreciated the gesture as he is kind of old school, but other then that as I mentioned they have a very close relationship due to him raising her and it meant something to him. It means a lot to me in return that he trusts me to look after his daughter, I dont know if Im explaining it properly but sure...

I am a father myself so I can see it from all angles I think, my daughter is only four, but obviously who she marries is going to be a huge deal to me as you want the best for your kids, you want them to find good life partners, you want them to be happy. That he trusts me to do this with his daughter is something I appreciate.

Tldr

I spoke to her dad before hand but it would not have stopped me ultimately as you have to live your own life and make your own decisions.

Dial Hard · 01-10-2014 12:28PM

When my ex and I were discussing marriage he asked me should he speak to my dad before we got officially engaged and I told him not to be daft.

Then I found out long after the fact that my dad was quite annoyed that ex-Mr. Dial Hard hadn't approached him. I just explained to my dad that I had told him not to and I thought it was an absurd thing to do in this day and age, which he accepted.

Asking A Father's Permission

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