have the irish learned anything

mphalo1 · 27-09-2014 10:52PM #1

This recession has been hard for everyone that has stayed in Ireland and lost their job. I see some kind of movement in the economy and general small talk in the local pub on the topic of work/ finances seems positive. A lot more holiday pics on Facebook and new cars is also a great sign , but have the Irish learned anything or will they pick up where they left off. I can only see more idiots elected, more debt and more keeping up with the Jones's . I believe its going to get out of control once again really ruining my childrens future here. (That I may or may not have.)beyond repair this time , with a mini boom of 6-7 years spiraling into a future of depression and a country in negative equity and panic leading to rebellions and mass emigration. The fall of an empire with a thump is basically what I predict. It can never get out of this all or nothing trap and they've only the air we breath left to tax to get out of these holes we find ourselves in.

keith16 · 27-09-2014 10:54PM

One thing the Irish never learned; the nuances of paragraphed writing.

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-09-2014 11:00PM

Try not to worry look after yourself and your family after that nothing really matters if the scheme of things

MistyCheese · 27-09-2014 11:00PM

I now know what a tracker mortgage is.

keith16 · 27-09-2014 11:02PM

MistyCheese wrote: »

I now know what a tracker mortgage is.

What is it? Tell the rest of us.

Seriously, has a TV ad ever fuelled a boom as much as that one did?

Frank Lee Midere · 27-09-2014 11:06PM

No. Just look at the accommodation and property forum.

General delight at ridiculous incresses in houses and rent which would not be acceptable in most of Europe. It's all 2006 rhetoric.

The economy grew at -0.3% last year. The year before was 2%. The previous 4 were recessions. Banks are on life support. Debt is 150% of GDP. Wages are static. Per-capita disposable is down with incresses in taxes with property and water charges to hit next year.

We had 200,000 house surpluses in 2011 which have apparantly vanished into thin air and Irish people have reacted to a tiny growth rate by playing down their savings and getting into debt again. Property porn is back. Houses outside the M50 are selling for 400k which in terms of affordability is about equal to 500k in the boom.

masonchat · 27-09-2014 11:09PM

mphalo1 wrote: »

This recession has been hard for everyone that has stayed in Ireland and lost their job. I see some kind of movement in the economy and general small talk in the local pub on the topic of work/ finances seems positive. A lot more holiday pics on Facebook and new cars is also a great sign , but have the Irish learned anything or will they pick up where they left off. I can only see more idiots elected, more debt and more keeping up with the Jones's . I believe its going to get out of control once again really ruining my childrens future here. (That I may or may not have.)beyond repair this time , with a mini boom of 6-7 years spiraling into a future of depression and a country in negative equity and panic leading to rebellions and mass emigration. The fall of an empire with a thump is basically what I predict. It can never get out of this all or nothing trap and they've only the air we breath left to tax to get out of these holes we find ourselves in.

Well its not so much your imaginary kids future you should be worried about they wont have much of a future here anyway, mabe your imaginary great great great grandkids might but i doubt that too.

For me its more will the banks make the same mistakes and will they be bailled out again if they do

kneemos · 27-09-2014 11:10PM

The slightest hint of a pick up and everyone is moaning about doom,disaster and begrudging any poor sod that might make a few shillings.

27-09-2014 11:12PM

The Irish are great at making hay while the sun shines, but are crap at storing it for a rainy day!

Frank Lee Midere · 27-09-2014 11:15PM

kneemos wrote: »

The slightest hint of a pick up and everyone is moaning about doom,disaster and begrudging any poor sod that might make a few shillings.

True. The last people who predicted doom were totally wrong.

AlekSmart · 27-09-2014 11:25PM

kneemos wrote: »

The slightest hint of a pick up and everyone is moaning about doom,disaster and begrudging any poor sod that might make a few shillings.

I'm only moaning because it'd the very same folks who gambled and lost their shirts (and in the process,everybody else's too),that we are not supposed to begrudge when they suddenly resurface (now funded by the shirtless) attempting to play the exact same trick :eek:

Wompa1 · 27-09-2014 11:27PM

Things are going to get grimmer in the next 10 years I think. Even with job growth we'll be kind of screwed. It seems like a lot of things are getting more expensive and houses\rent barely moved when things go bad.

So what's happened. I know for myself, when 2007-2008 roled around the expected entry level wage for a skilled job in my area of expertise dropped from 35k to 26k...it has since dropped to about 19k...If people are starting off that low, I'd imagine their earning potential is less throughout their career than back in the good old days. People will not be able to afford homes yet now there's a housing market. Doesn't make much sense

nullzero · 27-09-2014 11:28PM

MistyCheese wrote: »

I now know what a tracker mortgage is.

Something you can't get anymore.

masonchat · 27-09-2014 11:32PM

Is there really job growth or is it manipulated figures , i.e job bridge ce schemes internship and so on plus emiragration

anncoates · 27-09-2014 11:33PM

I think it's going to take about 200 years for Irish people to grasp how property cycles work instead of them being a devious plot to swindle people out of toney houses at LIDL prices.

Bongalongherb · 27-09-2014 11:33PM

It will all happen again, because the greed mechanism is in-built into most Irish folk. Another loop of madness we'll call it.

SaveOurLyric · 27-09-2014 11:39PM

They havent learned anything unfortunately.
They are a pretty unsophisticated lot, and you do not change a culture of business, politics, and personal finances even with a shock like 2008 - for a lot of people the downturn wasnt even that bad. Some excuse for them is that they were to some degree playing catch-up in a short spell with other neighbour countries, had too much money too quickly, and didnt know how to handle it. However, they are shortsighted, and left to their own devices they would quite likely make the same mistakes again if the right conditions arose. The hope for them is that the due to oversight of the EU, the more powerful countries, and the generally more responsible and prudent people of those countries, they will not be permitted to make the same mistakes again.

Shakespeare's Sister · 27-09-2014 11:45PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They havent learned anything unfortunately.
They are a pretty unsophisticated lot, and you do not change a culture of business, politics, and personal finances even with a shock like 2008 - for a lot of people the downturn wasnt even that bad. Some excuse for them is that they were to some degree playing catch-up in a short spell with other neighbour countries, had too much money too quickly, and didnt know how to handle it. However, they are shortsighted, and left to their own devices they would quite likely make the same mistakes again if the right conditions arose. The hope for them is that the due to oversight of the EU, the more powerful countries, and the generally more responsible and prudent people of those countries, they will not be permitted to make the same mistakes again.

Who's "they" and what nationality are you?

endacl · 27-09-2014 11:47PM

MistyCheese wrote: »

I now know what a tracker mortgage is was.

FYP

:pac:

Foxmint · 27-09-2014 11:49PM

No

SaveOurLyric · 27-09-2014 11:49PM

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Who's "they" and what nationality are you?

Clearly, 'the irish', as they are the subject in the post question.

(The topic is the Irish, not my nationality)

Mr. Incognito · 27-09-2014 11:50PM

anncoates wrote: »

I think it's going to take about 200 years for Irish people to grasp how property cycles work instead of them being a devious plot to swindle people out of toney houses at LIDL prices.

Countries with stable economic policies and proper regulation dont have property "cycles". Its not a natural pheninom.

Bank of ireland are offering to pay your stamp duty now.

That alone shows 1. They have learnt nothing 2. The regulator has learnt nothing.

maryishere · 27-09-2014 11:52PM

masonchat wrote: »

For me its more will the banks make the same mistakes and will they be bailled out again if they do

Good point. The bankers were not punished last time, they generally kept their full pay and bonuses. They will make the same mistakes again in time.

hfallada · 27-09-2014 11:58PM

Yes a few people are buying cars and going on holidays. But Germans shop in lidl and live frugally all year. This means they can afford every Germans goal of having two holidays a year. But that doesn't mean they are bad with money, they just know if you live frugally, you can treat yourself with holidays.

Irish people have learnt to be more careful with money. You never see anyone using credit cards or going to the credit union for a loan because they deserve a holiday. Irish people have learnt to live within their means

Crusades · 28-09-2014 12:08AM

masonchat wrote: »

Is there really job growth or is it manipulated figures , i.e job bridge ce schemes internship and so on plus emiragration

Manipulated figures.

Unemployment is going down.

However those on Jobbridge, disability, etc. is going up.

Most importantly, job quality is going down. We're now #2 in the OECD for low paying jobs. America and Ireland have highest percentages of low-paying jobs in the developed world

finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1028223.shtml

The biggest losers are ordinary workers who are increasingly finding themselves in corporate servitude and/or never-ending debt. It's not uncommon to meet people who've been working for 10 or 20 years and have zero savings and zero assets - nothing to show for it at all. Increasingly, young people are expected to work for free.

Those who benefit most are, you've guessed it, property owners and those involved in labour intensive businesses.

Emigration is still high, yet our population is increasing - for lots of unpopular reasons.

Our high quality home grown talent is exported and has been replaced with unskilled migrants. Doesn't matter who they are and where they're from - the important thing is to get them here and get them renting apartments.

Bonkers stuff. It's no way to run a country. God help whoever's next in government - they will be inheriting this unsustainable mess in a year's time.

28-09-2014 12:14AM

One thing the Irish haven't learned.

Irish.

Crusades · 28-09-2014 12:16AM

hfallada wrote: »

Yes a few people are buying cars and going on holidays. But Germans shop in lidl and live frugally all year. This means they can afford every Germans goal of having two holidays a year. But that doesn't mean they are bad with money, they just know if you live frugally, you can treat yourself with holidays.

Irish people have learnt to be more careful with money. You never see anyone using credit cards or going to the credit union for a loan because they deserve a holiday. Irish people have learnt to live within their means

My friend works in car sales. Nearly all the cars being driven off the forecourts nowadays are finance plans.

Honestly, I wouldn't want to be seen in one of those white Kia/Hyundai fake 4x4s that you see going around - you can smell balloon payment a mile off. The "finance plan LEDs" are a dead giveaway. Apparently you can switch them off when you've settled the balloon.

Shakespeare's Sister · 28-09-2014 12:44AM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Clearly, 'the irish', as they are the subject in the post question.

(The topic is the Irish, not my nationality)

So you're Irish. Aw, don't call yourself unsophisticated.

murphm45 · 28-09-2014 01:24AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Countries with stable economic policies and proper regulation dont have property "cycles". Its not a natural pheninom.

Bank of ireland are offering to pay your stamp duty now.

That alone shows 1. They have learnt nothing 2. The regulator has learnt nothing.

That's not true the UK and the U.S. both had crashes at the same time as us and Hong Kong is notorious for it. Also Japan ring any bells ( they're still recovering from it)

Second, Bank of Ireland aren't a charity. If they're giving you 1% of the mortgage value (which is all the stamp duty is) it will be built into the interest rate and then some. Also my understanding is that mortgages are harder to come by these days and that selection process is all the regulator cares about (I.e. Are they lending appropriately).

Slightly more on topic I have to say the answer is yes given how busy shops, restaurants etc are, the rocketing house prices and what feels a little like arbitrary price inflation. I really hope I can hold tight as a dry sh!te and not get sucked in.

crockholm · 28-09-2014 01:34AM

I want to come home,I'm sick of sweden,please don't begrudge me those halcyon Days of 2006-we were all happy goddammit!

Iwasfrozen · 28-09-2014 02:05AM

It would be helpful if people would stop classifying running a deficite as an Irish thing. It's a phenomenon all across the developed world.

It's something we as a country really need to work on though. I'll be upset if I see politicians increasing spending or lowering taxes so idiots will re-elect them while we're still in debt.

have the irish learned anything

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