Dublin City marathon

Ososlo · 25-09-2014 04:22PM

Pm1e wrote: »

Yep, totally out of character for me but there was no need for his remark. I'm totally new to marathon running and as I am with others coming in my sports, so he should be with his. F**k him.

I don't know why you won't join us on the Novices thread as was suggested previously if it's your first marathon.

kit3 · 25-09-2014 04:31PM

Pm1e wrote: »

Thanks Pistol, sound advice that I will take on board. Not focusing on time, but I know the competitive side in me will come out so lets say sub 4 hours and see how we go. Are there 4hr pacers?

There's pacers every 10 mins - think Ger664 is pacing 4.10 ...................

Pm1e · 25-09-2014 04:34PM

kit3 wrote: »

There's pacers every 10 mins - think Ger664 is pacing 4.10 ...................

we could have a friendly bet, if I come in ahead of him, he has to join me for a leisurely cycle.

Pm1e · 25-09-2014 04:34PM

Ososlo wrote: »

I don't know why you won't join us on the Novices thread as was suggested previously if it's your first marathon.

Will do

Chartsengrafs · 25-09-2014 04:42PM

dukeraoul wrote: »

Ecoenergy... I kinda hear you on that but as a long time poster on this forum (under a multitude of aliases) I just think a few of us get sick of the exact same posts in the lead up to DCM year after year.... it's like freaking groundhog day (and generally the posters are easy/ fun to wind up

Speak for yourself. I love it! Favourite time of year around these parts, hours of entertainment

TFBubendorfer · 25-09-2014 04:49PM

<mod> *sigh* ok, I think that's enough of the personal abuse. Cut it out, please.</mod>

geodesic · 25-09-2014 05:05PM

So just to branch the discussion back onto something more constructive ...

Did anyone hear anything about the elite field this year?

I'm assuming the the DCM organizers have quit their penny pinching on the prize fund as per last year?

menoscemo · 25-09-2014 05:15PM

geodesic wrote: »

I'm assuming the the DCM organizers have quit their penny pinching on the prize fund as per last year?

Actually the prize fund was as good as if not better last year compared to previous years. The only penny pinching was the decision not to invite over foreign elite (i.e. pay for flights and accomodation/expenses)

ArtieFufkin · 25-09-2014 07:20PM

Bollox, I am not going to able to run this. I've been training very well for it, pretty confident I would come in around 2:55 but other commitments mean I'll be flying into to Dublin on the morning of the race from NYC.

Any other marathons in Ireland worth considering around the same time?

echancrure · 25-09-2014 08:29PM

Are the 30km timings all wrong on the official DCM 2013 results?

Because everybody who did it in 3 hours have a 30k around 2:14 to 2:17 I would have expected 2:07 to 2:08 with even pacing...

menoscemo · 25-09-2014 08:44PM

echancrure wrote: »

Are the 30km timings all wrong on the official DCM 2013 results?

Because everybody who did it in 3 hours have a 30k around 2:14 to 2:17 I would have expected 2:07 to 2:08 with even pacing...

Yeah the timing mat was actually at 20 miles,they must have labelled it wrong in the results.

ger664 · 25-09-2014 08:49PM

echancrure wrote: »

Are the 30km timings all wrong on the official DCM 2013 results?

Because everybody who did it in 3 hours have a 30k around 2:14 to 2:17 I would have expected 2:07 to 2:08 with even pacing...

If you look on the tdl website who did the timing its a 20 Mile split so a typo on DCM site.

25-09-2014 08:50PM

echancrure wrote: »

Are the 30km timings all wrong on the official DCM 2013 results?

Because everybody who did it in 3 hours have a 30k around 2:14 to 2:17 I would have expected 2:07 to 2:08 with even pacing...

Defnitely 20 mile. The company who actually did the timing: http://www.tdl.ltd.uk/race-results.php?event=1504

menoscemo · 25-09-2014 10:14PM

geodesic wrote: »

I did a half-marathon-sized LSR last weekend, and plan to up that through 14, 15 & 16 miles the next 3 weekends, but go no further than that in training. I learned last year that a 22 mile run before the marathon really is just counter-productive.
.

Just rereading some of todays shenanigans.
Jesus wept, this has to be some of the worst advice I have ever heard on a marathon thread, doing a long run is counterproductive and you'd be better off capping it at 16 miles :rolleyes:
So are you telling me that those elites you are asking about a few posts up wouldn't run up to 20 or 22 miles in their training runs?
Even the most basic of beginner training plans have at least one 20+ mile run on the schedule.

geodesic · 25-09-2014 10:34PM

menoscemo wrote: »

Just rereading some of todays shenanigans.
Jesus wept, this has to be some of the worst advice I have ever heard on a marathon thread, doing a long run is counterproductive and you'd be better off capping it at 16 miles :rolleyes:
So are you telling me that those elites you are asking about a few posts up wouldn't run up to 20 or 22 miles in their training runs?
Even the most basic of beginner training plans have at least one 20+ mile run on the schedule.

Sigh.

Obviously I'm not an elite, obviously the vast majority of runners in the DCM are not elite, and ... duh ... the training undertaken by a professional runner bares almost no relation to what is appropriate for a recreational runner.

And yes, I totally stand by what I said. Running 22 miles before a marathon is just an injury risk.

Tyrone_03 · 25-09-2014 10:41PM

I think anyone who approaches a marathon without having at least one 20 miler under their belt is not prepared at all.

In my opinion a marathon is a 10k race....The last 10k!

menoscemo · 25-09-2014 10:42PM

geodesic wrote: »

Sigh.

Obviously I'm not an elite, obviously the vast majority of runners in the DCM are not elite, and ... duh ... the training undertaken by a professional runner bares almost no relation to what is appropriate for a recreational runner.

And yes, I totally stand by what I said. Running 22 miles before a marathon is just an injury risk.

I am not an elite athlete. you are not an elite athlete in fact nobody who has posted in this thread is an elite athlete but you are just plain wrong

Have a read of the novice marathon thread on the training logs, most of those guys are only running a year or less and most have modest targets but yet they will all be doing at least one or more 20+ mile run.

A 22 mile training run is only a huge injury risk if you don't have a sufficient running base and haven't built up the miles progressively....

AuldManKing · 25-09-2014 11:26PM

Thread of the year?

dukeraoul · 26-09-2014 07:07AM

geodesic wrote: »

Sigh.

Obviously I'm not an elite, obviously the vast majority of runners in the DCM are not elite, and ... duh ... the training undertaken by a professional runner bares almost no relation to what is appropriate for a recreational runner.

And yes, I totally stand by what I said. Running 22 miles before a marathon is just an injury risk.

You have no idea what you're talking about

geodesic · 26-09-2014 07:53AM

menoscemo wrote: »

I am not an elite athlete. you are not an elite athlete in fact nobody who has posted in this thread is an elite athlete

Well, yeah.

I'd remind you that you brought up the question of whether elites were doing 22 miles, in order to take the p1ss out my unrelated question earlier about the elite field.

but you are just plain wrong

There is no right and wrong in training. Only what works and doesn't work for an individual runner.

Running 22 miles definitely did not work for me last year and was definitely counter-productive. My experience is just as valid as anyone else's.

Have a read of the novice marathon thread on the training logs, most of those guys are only running a year or less and most have modest targets but yet they will all be doing at least one or more 20+ mile run.

My statement about 22 miles seems to have morphed into 20+ miles.

Anyhow, the fact that many are doing it doesn't make it the most sensible thing to do. Many runners are also constantly struggling with injury.

A 22 mile training run is only a huge injury risk if you don't have a sufficient running base and haven't built up the miles progressively....

And what benefit does this non-huge injury risk confer beyond what could be achieved with a double on the same day, or a slow 18 miler say buttressed by a more intense medium length run the day before?

geodesic · 26-09-2014 08:28AM

dukeraoul wrote: »

You have no idea what you're talking about

I have no idea about what, pray tell?

The vast majority of the field being non-eilte? ... self-evidently true.

The training program used by elites being inappropriate for recreational runners? ... so, where are you doing your altitude training this year?

22 miles being an injury risk? ... it is, I was, and I bet I'm not the only one who did themselves damage running an unnecessarily long distance before the marathon.

BTW there's a fairly sh1tty tone emerging on this thread, given the mobbing that the half-ironman guy was subjected to yesterday.

News-flash: the old-timer boardies don't actually own the DCM, nor do ye lay down the law on how to train for it. A bit of courtesy towards other opinions/backgrounds would go a long way. Just sayin' ...

dukeraoul · 26-09-2014 08:38AM

geodesic wrote: »

Well, yeah.

I'd remind you that you brought up the question of whether elites were doing 22 miles, in order to take the p1ss out my unrelated question earlier about the elite field.

There is no right and wrong in training. Only what works and doesn't work for an individual runner.

Running 22 miles definitely did not work for me last year and was definitely counter-productive. My experience is just as valid as anyone else's.

My statement about 22 miles seems to have morphed into 20+ miles.

Anyhow, the fact that many are doing it doesn't make it the most sensible thing to do. Many runners are also constantly struggling with injury.

And what benefit does this non-huge injury risk confer beyond what could be achieved with a double on the same day, or a slow 18 miler say buttressed by a more intense medium length run the day before?

I'd say it didn't work for you because the rest of your training was ****... I repeat what I said earlier you have no ****ing clue what you're talking about and Tbh youre too far gone and too painfully pedantic to bother explaining anything to... Enjoy DCM!

Slow_Runner · 26-09-2014 08:45AM

Jeez the narkiness staring already and taper madness hasn't even started yet

Rantan · 26-09-2014 08:56AM

geodesic wrote: »

Sigh.

Obviously I'm not an elite, obviously the vast majority of runners in the DCM are not elite, and ... duh ... the training undertaken by a professional runner bares almost no relation to what is appropriate for a recreational runner.

And yes, I totally stand by what I said. Running 22 miles before a marathon is just an injury risk.

for the record - I have one 20m already in the bag and 1 x 18m. I plan a 22m this weekend if I can push it, 20 next week and last pre taper long run is 18m
my ambition is anything sub 3.20 for DCM. I am in relatively good shape so far, have managed myself better than previous. I have increased the quality of my speedwork and I feel this has helped me to cope better with the long runs as this year I don't fell as broke after high mileage as before

RayCun · 26-09-2014 08:56AM

I would recommend that people get at least one 20 mile run in as part of their training. If possible, get three in - but a lot of novices are increasing their mileage significantly as it is, and it would be counter-productive to jump from 10 to 15 to 20 too fast to make time for three 20 mile runs. If you're coming from a good base and have a long buildup, you could get five 20s in.
But at least one 20 mile run is very important. If you max out at 15 or 16 your body will not adapt as well to the demands of longer distance running. There are real differences between running 10 miles or a half marathon and running 26 miles* and you need to prepare for them.

*assuming you are someone running average mileage and not experienced at marathon and longer distances

That said, I've never run more than 20 miles in marathon prep. If I get my weekly mileage up to around 80 I might consider it, but at about 60 miles a week I'm happy with a longest run of about 20.

chinguetti · 26-09-2014 09:04AM

Jeez, you don't read a thread for a day and all kinda things happens.

For me, I think there's merit in both arguments. I can't do as many miles as others for DCM due to trying to stay on the line of not getting injuried. Therefore I do more a quality than quantity training program. I read some of the stuff that people are doing on the novice thread about tempos and speed sessions and I shake my head. They're running the risk of injury without the back up of a decent base of running for more than a year. I don't do tempos or speed sessions as I'ld be injuried as that what happened to me in the past. I would guess that I do more stretches in a day than most on here do in a month. This is by choice to keep me running so my training is for me alone, as is everyone's as it should be.

However, you are looking to cause yourself a shed load of grief if you haven't done a lsr of around 20 miles at least twice in training in my opinion. Nothing beats time on the feet running, regardless of what other sport you do at present. Would it be an injury risk if I ran 22 miles? Hell yes. Would it be for others, probably not so you can't diss what someone else is doing training wise if they are getting better/faster. If after the event, they crash and burn well then they have to look at how they prepared. And anyway, you learn more from a bad race than a rake of good ones.

I have cycled some of the climbs in the Tour de France in 30 degrees plus but I trained on a bike for 6 months beforehand. And this isn't taking a pop at anyone, its a simple fact. You wouldn't do an exam without doing the study, ditto on running a marathon. The lsrs are the mock exams.

Will the lads get round who did HIM? Yes, hopefully once they start nice and slow and are mentally strong, which they probably are after training/doing a HIM. And good luck to them too and hope they enjoy it.

Now I await how many people tell me that I'm talking tripe:D

adrian522 · 26-09-2014 09:25AM

chinguetti wrote: »

I read some of the stuff that people are doing on the novice thread about tempos and speed sessions and I shake my head. They're running the risk of injury without the back up of a decent base of running for more than a year.

So is it your opinion that people just just run endless easy miles for marathon prep? I don't think I could do that to be honest.

Also not everyone on the novices thread took up running this year, I'd say most have been running at least a year.

26-09-2014 09:28AM

geodesic wrote: »

There is no right and wrong in training. Only what works and doesn't work for an individual runner.

...

geodesic wrote: »

Running 22 miles before a marathon is just an injury risk.

So which is it?

And if it's the latter, what's special about a 22 mile run that doesn't affect, say a 20 mile run? The vast majority of novice plans would recommend at least one 20 mile run, and once you get past that level, 22 mile runs aren't unusual to find. If you have the base endurance work done, a 22 mile run is of course beneficial, and not any kind of a significant injury risk (every run has some injury risk associated). If you don't have the base work done, then any kind of long run is going to be dangerous.

Gringo78 · 26-09-2014 09:39AM

I'm not a fan at all of the generic reference to mileage in terms of long run. An easy 20 mile LSR for me is <2.5hrs. For someone targetting a 4hr marathon (the average finishing time for Dublin I think??) a 20 mile LSR should take them around 3hr 20min. To be honest, I don't really see the benefit of a run longer than 3 hours - risks of injury out weigh any gains and you're better off doing back to back 'long' runs then i.e a 1.5hr run Saturday, a 2.5hr run Sunday. So my own view would be refer to LSR's in terms of time, not mileage....i.e max out at 3hrs, if that doesn't amount to 20 miles, then have a medium to long run the day before

RayCun · 26-09-2014 09:58AM

I can see the logic in that, but I know people doing their LSRs at around 11 minutes a mile. If they never went over 3 hours in a training run, that's only about 16 miles. An 8 mile run on Saturday followed by a 13 mile on Sunday is just not going to have the same effect, and psychologically they would die if they were already into new territory at 15/16 miles.

Dublin City marathon

Comments