Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

daithijjj · 20-09-2014 11:13PM

BenThere wrote: »

So what exactly is his place/position? Is he supposed to be the best passing DM in the league? If so he'll always be the best long range passer in the PL, even if he keeps playing until he's 40 but the benefit of his passing is unfortunately outweighed by his lack of effectiveness as a DM and costing us more goals than he's helping create.

A DM has to first and foremost be a defender breaking up play and being a general nuisance but Stevie has never been that and he's not going to start being it aged 34.

They dont actually, thats why Bayern just gave a 2 year contract to a player who will be 33 in a few weeks, a player who doesnt consider tackling a skill at all.

The arguments you are debating here are the same reasons Milan gave for letting Pirlo go, that worked out well.

A quality midfield needs to dovetail its attributes.

MD1990 · 20-09-2014 11:15PM

daithijjj wrote: »

They dont actually, thats why Bayern just gave a 2 year contract to a player who will be 33 in a few weeks, a player who doesnt consider tackling a skill at all.

The arguments you are debating here are the same reasons Milan gave for letting Pirlo go, that worked out well.

A quality midfield needs to dovetail its attributes.

You do realise Alonso actually does tackle alot & is managed properly i.e gets rotated. Gerrard is playing very poor atm & needs to be rested. I think he will start in the Cup vs Boro.

darced · 20-09-2014 11:17PM

This post has been deleted.

Muahahaha · 20-09-2014 11:18PM

anyone know when Sturridge might be back ?

Nerdlingr · 20-09-2014 11:22PM

BenThere wrote: »

Because they have no confidence in Ming. They are afraid to step forward.

Could well be the case alright. Still, in many of the games this season there's been acres of space when either lovren, sakho or skrtel pick up the ball. I'm just willing them to go forward with it. Instead is usually a five yard pass into Gerrard who's facing his own goal and has a man on him. Dare I say it but could we be missing agger?!! He was great at doing exactly what I'm on about. Carrying the ball and then surveying his options.

daithijjj · 20-09-2014 11:24PM

BenThere wrote: »

Exactly, so why is he being asked to play that position? Is it because BR feels obliged to find a spot for him? If so the pressure will build to a point where BR has to make a choice, drop Stevie or face the sack and the reality, if you work the logic through, is that whoever comes in will immediately use his honeymoon period to drop Stevie just as LVG used his honeymoon period to clear out Evra, Rio etc? (I'm NOT saying Era and Rio are as good or as important to their club as Stevie is to LFC!!!)

Well I think it's time to tailor Stevies role to CL games and a limited number of PL home games. What decision do you think BR needs to make?

I have no intention of regurgitating the same stuff anymore tbh. I've been writing the same stuff since lads were saying the same as far back as Benitez last season re Gerrard.

Eventually, it will be correct. But there is nothing in our squad to squeeze Gerrard out yet. If i had got my way we'd have had 2 def mids brought in years ago. Then maybe.

I also find it hilarious that people think Joe Allen can play def mid. Theres a few 12yr old girls in our local GAA team who could out muscle him. He is much better higher.

Harry Palmr · 20-09-2014 11:27PM

This is a case of a club failing to be pro-active about an ageing player. Regardless of their status you have to plan to replace them rather than waiting for performance to decline and mess the side about accommodating him and then getting caught short as the last few drops are scooped out of the drying well.

BenEadir · 20-09-2014 11:28PM

daithijjj wrote: »

They dont actually, thats why Bayern just gave a 2 year contract to a player who will be 33 in a few weeks, a player who doesnt consider tackling a skill at all.

The arguments you are debating here are the same reasons Milan gave for letting Pirlo go, that worked out well.

A quality midfield needs to dovetail its attributes.

Can you give a PL example please?
You're not seriously equating the PL to the Italian league are you?

Also, Alonso is a better younger player in the DM role than Stevie playing in an infinitely better team than Stevie. Mmmm which is the easier job? Playing DM for LFC in the PL with Ming in goal or in the Bayern Munich team with Neur in goal???

Nerdlingr · 20-09-2014 11:32PM

daithijjj wrote: »

I also find it hilarious that people think Joe Allen can play def mid. Theres a few 12yr old girls in our local GAA team who could out muscle him. He is much better higher.

Why do you think it hilarious? You've just citied Alonso as an example of a dm not needing the attribute of tackling to play that role and yet you dismiss Allen because he hasn't got the 'brawn' to play there. Bit hypocritical no?

daithijjj · 20-09-2014 11:39PM

MD1990 wrote: »

You do realise Alonso actually does tackle alot & is managed properly i.e gets rotated. Gerrard is playing very poor atm & needs to be rested. I think he will start in the Cup vs Boro.

So does Gerrard but when things go wrong it seems first port of call is to blame him for far too many imo.

Alonso had a sh1te world cup too, didnt stop Bayern picking him up though. Alonso has played plenty of football the last few years, id say a fair bit more than Gerrard.

Gerrard shouldnt be playing 3 times in the last week but we dont have the player we should have signed this summer to come in to replace him. He did have 2 weeks off just before though. We have Allen and Lucas who cant do it because they have no distribution to play a fast paced game from deep, plus Can who is injured. Lucas and Allen also cant carry the ball or fend off physicality.

He might start midweek, what does that tell you about our squad and Rodgers?. It tells me we bought players based in isolation of statistics, value and potential rather than necessity.

ShoulderChip · 20-09-2014 11:40PM

daithijjj wrote: »

As much as it pains me to say it, Mourinho recently replied to a question about his squad.....to paraphrase, 'we assessed what we needed, identified the players, and bought them'. Now thats easy financially for them but the thing, is, as much as i like the look of Markovic, there was no necessity for that signing. He may turn out to be great in the future but it told me the club saw no issues in defensive midfield and that is the blind spot for us imo. Has been for years. Gerrard was pencilled in to move back but the Xabi role needed Mascherano beside him.

Why is it east financially for Chelsea?
I don't understand, Chelsea did it with an almost net spend of 0

daithijjj · 20-09-2014 11:55PM

BenThere wrote: »

Can you give a PL example please?
You're not seriously equating the PL to the Italian league are you?

Also, Alonso is a better younger player in the DM role than Stevie playing in an infinitely better team than Stevie. Mmmm which is the easier job? Playing DM for LFC in the PL with Ming in goal or in the Bayern Munich team with Neur in goal???

Example of what?.

Ive given 3 or 4 examples tonight of what im talking about. I may be wrong but i dont see many names from you other than we play Allen for example as def mid?!!!. Im sure everyone would be full of confidence in that one.

I havent said we should sign an old player. The point is that you address the issues in your team. Rodgers seems fixated on attack, its telling everywhere you look.

I dont understand why you're bringing goalkeepers into this

Francie Barrett · 20-09-2014 11:57PM

I have to admit it, but this was one of the first times I've seen Rodgers really make a balls of a game. The chopping and changing of the formation just shows how badly he misjudged things today. Some of the selections were just completely bizarre as well. I've said it for a long time now, but Lucas just does not fit into this team at all, and any notion that he can adapt must be abandoned. I read that he had just 25 touches of the ball in the first half - that is a truly shocking indictment of him considering it's West Ham we were playing today. He will always be a club legend, but it's time for both the club and the player to part ways. The decision to start Borini was just awful. I like the guy and his attitude, but he's desperately short of the mark for where we need to be.

We have Boro in a few days. I hope that Rodgers rests the first 11 and gives a chance for the fringe players to stake a claim. I'd like to see Enrique, Toure, Lambert, Suso, Markovic and Lallana all start. With Can and Allen crocked, this is the perfect time to consider one of the youngsters. I'd actually like to see Rossiter being given a run out.

I really feel for Sterling in all this. Because the team are doing so awfully, he is having to take more of the burden of changing the game himself. This inevitably makes him more frustrated and forces him into making more mistakes. I have a real worry we could see him go out the door to the likes of Real Madrid if we're not careful.

Francie Barrett · 21-09-2014 12:00AM

By the way - was anyone watching Alex Song and thinking, we could have done with a player like him? If we wanted him, we could have had him on loan easily. Despite the links at the end of the transfer window, it looks like we passed over him. Big mistake, I think.

BMMachine · 21-09-2014 12:04AM

well that was awful again. we are so lightweight and our defence was terrible. they need to cop on, fast

daithijjj · 21-09-2014 12:06AM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

By the way - was anyone watching Alex Song and thinking, we could have done with a player like him? If we wanted him, we could have had him on loan easily. Despite the links at the end of the transfer window, it looks like we passed over him. Big mistake, I think.

I wouldnt have got Song but there were plenty of options out there that could have been better than what we find as our options today.

doc_17 · 21-09-2014 12:21AM

Sakho is so poor. Anyobe who thinks or believes he is a good defender doesn't know anything about soccer. He needs to be dropped , shipped out and we move on. He is so f**king awful it's not funny. I'd take Agger on one leg every day of the week. He reminds me of Djimi, except Djimi was better

Fescue · 21-09-2014 12:29AM

When Rodgers came in we had real problems scoring goals, heck even Suarez wasn't prolific. He set about improving that and the result was last seasons title challenge. In the long term that cavalier manner of playing football is not reliable.

You need to have defensive stability to be a great team. You can't play breath taking stuff all the time. When you don't you have to be able to shut other teams out.

His task over the next few months is to rectify this problem. If he can't then midtable mediocrity awaits.

Charlie19 · 21-09-2014 01:15AM

Not too many positives to take from our latest setback but I think Mario played well and looked even better watching the motd highlights, he done well for the goal, which was a fantastic finish by Sterling, probably his most cleanly struck shot to date.

The Midfield three where just terrible and bad as Gerrard was, he wasn't the worst, which is scary.

Mig actually looked good at coming out for crosses when normally this would be one of his weak points, but ffs how did he get caught out for the second goal.

If by any fluke we're still in within a shout of making it out of the CL group come December, Rodgers desperately needs to realize that we need two CMs and has to put pressure on the board for some funds.

Not time to start panicking just yet as we've been unlucky with injuries and we're still only 3 points off fourth.

Pulsating Star · 21-09-2014 02:28AM

Charlie19 wrote: »

Not too many positives to take from our latest setback

For me there is..kinda
At work I hate workarounds, I much prefer things/systems be properly broke otherwise they don't get the attention they deserve and we are left stumbling along. There can be no denying it now.

Mig actually looked good at coming out for crosses when normally this would be one of his weak points,

I also got this impression , maybe only imagined, that he was consciously trying to be more commanding.

T-K-O · 21-09-2014 05:54AM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Careful now. Don't question the team, it'll be called knee jerk :rolleyes:

#BlameSakho :rolleyes:

T-K-O · 21-09-2014 06:05AM

daRobot wrote: »

Really? Three out of our past three games have been very poor, and we were lucky to beat Southampton.

It's very worrying.

MD1990 wrote: »

Im usually the 1st one to say knee jerk reaction. Not today this is appalling. Worst performance since Bolton away in 11/12.

Fair enough, having endured the 90 minutes I would agree with the above.

We all know Lucas and Gerrard cannot play together, BR needs to learn this lesson too. In fairness, if Can or Allen were fit, I'm sure they would have started.

Defending is awful, Sahko's header yesterday was pub league stuff but none of our CB's are standing out at the moment. I'm more concerned with Sahko and to a lesser extent Lovern than anything else. Big money players not living up to the hype.

If anyone deserves a run it's Lallana. We need to get Sturridge, Sterling and Lallana in the team.

LuckyLloyd · 21-09-2014 06:52AM

Running some worst case scenarios over in my mind. What would people say to a season along the lines of:

~60 point season
CL group elimination
No Cup achievements

?

That's what we look like right now tbh. I'm not sure Rodgers would survive that unfortunately.

BenEadir · 21-09-2014 07:53AM

daithijjj wrote: »

Example of what?.

An example of a 34 year old starting DM in a top 6 or even top 10 PL team.

Even if we ignore the fact Stevie isn't suited to a DM role at 34 he can't be a starting DM in the PL up against high energy mega fit guys 10 years younger than him. He's getting over run and is too easily by passed.

Guy:Incognito · 21-09-2014 08:06AM

BenEadir wrote: »

An example of a 34 year old starting DM in a top 6 or even top 10 PL team.

Even if we ignore the fact Stevie isn't suited to a DM role at 34 he can't be a starting DM in the PL up against high energy mega fit guys 10 years younger than him. He's getting over run and is too easily by passed.

Mega fit young guys like frank Lampard?

Next week is another young up and come, Gareth Barry.

CSF · 21-09-2014 08:26AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Running some worst case scenarios over in my mind. What would people say to a season along the lines of:

~60 point season
CL group elimination
No Cup achievements

?

That's what we look like right now tbh. I'm not sure Rodgers would survive that unfortunately.

Realistically Rodgers future isn't something you should be considering as anything other than a given at this moment of time. He's 5 games since the most impressive season from Liverpool in my living memory.

Soft Falling Rain · 21-09-2014 08:26AM

doc_17 wrote: »

Sakho is so poor. Anyobe who thinks or believes he is a good defender doesn't know anything about soccer. He needs to be dropped , shipped out and we move on. He is so f**king awful it's not funny. I'd take Agger on one leg every day of the week. He reminds me of Djimi, except Djimi was better

Ah now here!!

LuckyLloyd · 21-09-2014 08:47AM

CSF wrote: »

Realistically Rodgers future isn't something you should be considering as anything other than a given at this moment of time. He's 5 games since the most impressive season from Liverpool in my living memory.

If the scenario I outlined above comes to pass he'll be under immense pressure at the very least

ASOT · 21-09-2014 08:51AM

All this Sakho hate is hilarious.

hefferboi · 21-09-2014 09:12AM

Sakho wasn't on the pitch when we conceded the 2 goals before the 10th minute, yet he's still getting abuse. Same lads are probably saying Gerrard can still start consistently for another 2-3 years at dm.

Idiots.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

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