Woman walks free after admitting she lied about boyfriend raping her

PucaMama · 14-09-2014 02:31PM

py2006 wrote: »

Not sure I can agree with that. I would assume a serious crime reported is taken very seriously in most cases. What isn't taken serious is the false accusation such as the one in question here.

Rape is far from taken seriously here. Too much 'evidence' (stories) being passed around about how quick women are to accuse a man of rape.

ahnowbrowncow · 14-09-2014 02:36PM

PucaMama wrote: »

Sure because its better that 100 rapists go free than 1 innocent person gets punished

Where did you get 100 rapists from?

If it was 50/50 I'd prefer to let the person go rather than imprison them.

PucaMama wrote: »

Rape is far from taken seriously here. Too much 'evidence' (stories) being passed around about how quick women are to accuse a man of rape.

Is this story not evidence that it happens?

PucaMama · 14-09-2014 02:36PM

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Where did you get 100 rapists from?

If it was 50/50 I'd prefer to let the person go rather than imprison them.

It's an example.

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 02:40PM

Fat Christy wrote: »

Well she definitely doesn't help the case to be honest. If this was to become a common occurrence, however unlikely, it would act as a serious deterrent for actual rape victims to come forward.

What's already a serious deterrent to people coming forward is that the onus is on them to prove they were raped in the first place. Cases like this will never become commonplace, but they receive more media attention due to the nature and often the perpetrator of the crime.

FWIW, the woman in this case has been convicted and sentenced for making false allegation of rape. It could be argued in the same way that will deter people who have been raped from coming forward.

14-09-2014 02:42PM

The Purveyor of Truth wrote: »

Oh thousands upon thousands I'd say.

Imagine if the subject was men making false allegations of theft against women and I just mentioned that I thought 'Thousands upon thousands' of women were serving time because of lying men framing them maliciously?

People would think I'd a problem with men in general to think so little of so many of them. And that's just using theft as an example.

ahnowbrowncow · 14-09-2014 02:43PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

What's already a serious deterrent to people coming forward is that the onus is on them to prove they were raped in the first place. Cases like this will never become commonplace, but they receive more media attention due to the nature and often the perpetrator of the crime.

FWIW, the woman in this case has been convicted and sentenced for making false allegation of rape. It could be argued in the same way that will deter people who have been raped from coming forward.

But where's the deterrent to stop false accusations? A suspended sentence is not a deterrent.

py2006 · 14-09-2014 02:46PM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Oh I'm angry with her alright, don't worry about that. More angry with her than the exaggeration of facts (I've enough anger to share around tbh) but as she's not posting here, I can't confront her.

Who is exaggerating what facts?

Shakespeare's Sister · 14-09-2014 02:46PM

Candie wrote: »

Imagine if the subject was men making false allegations of theft against women and I just mentioned that I thought 'Thousands upon thousands' of women were serving time because of lying men framing them maliciously?

People would think I'd a problem with men in general to think so little of so many of them.

I know. It's an interesting one isn't it?

Fat Christy · 14-09-2014 02:48PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

What's already a serious deterrent to people coming forward is that the onus is on them to prove they were raped in the first place. Cases like this will never become commonplace, but they receive more media attention due to the nature and often the perpetrator of the crime.

FWIW, the woman in this case has been convicted and sentenced for making false allegation of rape. It could be argued in the same way that will deter people who have been raped from coming forward.

We could be sat here all day arguing back and forth about how you prove you were actually raped.

I can understand what you are saying but would you rather she went unpunished? Let her off scot free? You really are just open the floodgates to people making false accusations of rape.

py2006 · 14-09-2014 02:50PM

At the end of the day, this is nowhere near the first false allegation I have read of. It happens a lot more than it should. As a man, that is frightening.

UCDVet · 14-09-2014 02:51PM

The biggest problem is that it's virtually impossible to prove consent and it's even harder to prove that someone intentionally lied.

The reality of it, is that we really have no idea how many times someone is falsely accused of rape verse how many times a rapist gets set free due to a lack of evidence.

osarusan · 14-09-2014 02:53PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

What's already a serious deterrent to people coming forward is that the onus is on them to prove they were raped in the first place.

But that's the legal system. Innocent until proven guilty. I can't think of another system that would work better.

Czarcasm wrote: »

FWIW, the woman in this case has been convicted and sentenced for making false allegation of rape. It could be argued in the same way that will deter people who have been raped from coming forward.

I don't honestly think so. False accusation of rape is not the same thing as an acquittal in a rape case.

If there is some misunderstanding out there that a person who has reasonable grounds for believing that they have been raped could be convicted of false accusation of rape (an acquittal does not imply a false accusation), then that misunderstanding needs to be addressed, rather than not punishing people who have falsely accused people of rape.

the_syco · 14-09-2014 02:55PM

Fat Christy wrote: »

I think the woman in this case should definitely receive some sort of punishment.

NOPE. CAN NEVER BE PUNISHED. Why? Because if she was, other women falsly accusing men of rape wouldn't come forward to say that they had lied, and innocent men will have been left to rot in jail

ahnowbrowncow · 14-09-2014 02:58PM

the_syco wrote: »

NOPE. CAN NEVER BE PUNISHED. Why? Because if she was, other women falsly accusing men of rape wouldn't come forward to say that they had lied, and innocent men will have been left to rot in jail

Well maybe if there was a deterrent to false accusations innocent men wouldn't go to jail in the first place.

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 03:05PM

Fat Christy wrote: »

We could be sat here all day arguing back and forth about how you prove you were actually raped.

I can understand what you are saying but would you rather she went unpunished? Let her off scot free? You really are just open the floodgates to people making false accusations of rape.

I'd rather see the money that was spent on prosecuting her be diverted towards getting her the help she needs. I genuinely don't believe there's going to be any floodgates of false allegations. There might be a chance of that if there weren't the stigma around rape already, but then you're into double edged sword territory -

Decrease the stigma surrounding rape, but then you open the floodgates for every minor sexual assault to be classed as rape, and reports skyrocket to levels where society finds it hard to take the statistics seriously.

14-09-2014 03:06PM

Fat Christy wrote: »

I can understand what you are saying but would you rather she went unpunished? Let her off scot free? You really are just open the floodgates to people making false accusations of rape.

She didn't get off scot free though, although she may have been underpunished. It's a hard balance to strike between deterrence of false claims and avoiding deterrence of genuine claims by people traumatised at that thought of making a complaint, who might be further terrorised by the fear of prosecution if they're perceived to be lying for some reason. Trauma isn't known for it's ability to make people think rationally.

I think the floodgates concept is misguided too. I genuinely don't believe that the only thing keeping back a tidal wave of false allegations is the prospect of custodial punishment. I can't believe that there are numerous women hell-bent on putting men away for imaginary sex crimes, only prevented from doing so by the fear of incarceration.

TheBeardedLady · 14-09-2014 03:09PM

py2006 wrote: »

Who is exaggerating what facts?

The "thousands upon thousands" comment. It's a stab in the dark, a hunch not based on fact. Read Candie's comment above. Not derailing thread anymore.

py2006 · 14-09-2014 03:16PM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

The "thousands upon thousands" comment. It's a stab in the dark, a hunch not based on fact. Read Candie's comment above. Not derailing thread anymore.

That wasn't my comment.

Shakespeare's Sister · 14-09-2014 03:25PM

Candie wrote: »

I can't believe that there are numerous women hell-bent on putting men away for imaginary sex crimes, only prevented from doing so by the fear of incarceration.

I get the impression a tiny few folks like the idea of it being very commonplace though. See also: women tricking guys into getting them pregnant.

It's interesting given the outright condemnation of it on this thread by everyone.

The Purveyor of Truth · 14-09-2014 03:38PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion, beyond a few anecdotes, media articles and google searches?

Considering the number of rapes reported, the rise in conviction rates (62% was reported last year in the UK also): thousands I would suggest, be a rather reserved given.

Oh and "a few" media articles? I don't think you're using Google correctly if that's all you can find dude. I don't think I would have much trouble finding many hundreds. Also, aot sure why you seem to think that articles from the DM are not relevant. Can you provide proof that the DM has ever lied about any of the overturned rape convictions which they have reported over the years? If not, then I suggest you give the DM sneering a rest.

You can start by pondering these:

Football Star released from Prison over false rape claims
Mother jailed for 4 years for falsely claiming boyfriend raped her 14 times
Women jailed after five false rape allegations
Father freed after decade in jail
Man released after 25 years
Woman who admits second 'cry rape' offense spared jail
Central park 5 released after 13 years
Man released after serving three years for rape

And here we have them highlighting a case where some black boys were wrongfully accused of rape over 80 years ago:

Scotsboro Boys pardoned

But hang on. Aren't the Daily Mail supposed to be a racist organization?? Why then are they highlighting a case such as this? Showing the legal struggles and obstacles that black people faced as a result of a racist society? I want my black people portrayed as Evil damn it. I won't have these suggestions they were victimized. I am unsubscribing from their publications forthwith.

An excellent talk for anyone interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SpVVsOUsLo

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 03:52PM

The Purveyor of Truth wrote: »

Considering the number of rapes reported, the rise in conviction rates (62% was reported last year in the UK also): thousands I would suggest, be a rather reserved given.

It's because you suggested it as a given in the first place that I asked you for some studies or statistics to back up your assertions, otherwise your whole argument is based on some very dodgy ground where we could take anything we made up in our heads 'as a given'. Do you really want to go down that road? Because I can use Google as effectively as you did to back up my confirmation bias.

I can also use statistics, but I'll show you mine when you show me yours... without all the other irrelevant stuff that only distracts from your point.

osarusan · 14-09-2014 03:54PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'd rather see the money that was spent on prosecuting her be diverted towards getting her the help she needs.

She needs help? What help does she need?

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 04:05PM

osarusan wrote: »

She needs help? What help does she need?

Yes, she needs help. What's so strange about saying that? It's not as if making false allegations of rape is actually normal or socially acceptable behaviour.

Without knowing her personally I wouldn't be inclined to speculate as to the exact nature and extent of the support and assistance she would need. She may already be receiving that assistance, but the article doesn't say whether she is or she isn't, it just says she's been given a suspended sentence and a curfew.

osarusan · 14-09-2014 04:09PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Yes, she needs help. What's so strange about saying that? It's not as if making false allegations of rape is actually normal or socially acceptable behaviour.

But you could make that argument about anything. It's not as if raping people, or beating them up, or murdering them, is normal or socially acceptable behaviour either.

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 04:24PM

osarusan wrote: »

But you could make that argument about anything. It's not as if raping people, or beating them up, or murdering them, is normal or socially acceptable behaviour either.

You could, but all we're talking about in this particular thread, and specifically what I was referring to, is a woman who made a false allegation of rape.

The Purveyor of Truth · 14-09-2014 04:50PM

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

I know. It's an interesting one isn't it?

Nice sneering. A wink doesn't negate that.

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's because you suggested it as a given in the first place that I asked you for some studies or statistics to back up your assertions, otherwise your whole argument is based on some very dodgy ground where we could take anything we made up in our heads 'as a given'.

Are you really asking me for proof and studies to back up my 'opinion' that, now and in the past, thousands of men have been wrongly imprisoned for rape?

Quite obviously, if such "proof" existed then the men involved would hardly have been incarcerated in the first place, or at the very least, wouldn't be incarcerated now. What an odd request. The reason it is a "given" is because it is quite reasonable to speculate that the number of men that have had their rape convictions overturned down the years, is just really a small fraction of the total number of those that overall, have been wrongly imprisoned rape charges.

Only a fool would believe that the number of people that have been wrongly convicted of murder, also directly matches the number of people that have had their murder convictions overturned. A naive one at that. We know that hundreds of men have had their rape convictions quashed down the years and so it is of course quite reasonable to then assume that the number of those just imprisoned for the crime, would be higher than that. It might not be politically correct to say that but truth rarely is.

TheBeardedLady · 14-09-2014 05:04PM

py2006 wrote: »

That wasn't my comment.

I never said it was.

Pwindedd · 14-09-2014 05:10PM

False allegations of rape are wrong - end of. They should be punished. But not to the extent where you may prevent a person doing the right thing and stopping a wrongful conviction, by confessing to lying in the first place.

The are so many variables in cases like these. It's not a case of "well they lied, bang em up". This lady for example - clearly falls into the category of false allegation, but if her blog post is anything to go by then not as cut and dried as it looks. Harrowing in fact.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2013/08/23/i-am-a-false-rape-allegation-statistic/

It's awful that people feel that they can falsely accuse someone of rape, and I have the deepest sympathy for anyone who finds themselves in that position. Not nice. The cases we hear about such as this one, tend to stand out in the media. Can you imagine if the papers reported every rape story that happened - irrespective of outcome - the morning paper would become the size of a telephone directory. 230 a day in the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/thereporters/markeaston/2008/07/rape_a_complex_crime.html

It's good that false accusations are highlighted but we do need to make sure we don't go backwards in our attitudes to rape. If a culture of not believing rape victims re-emerges it can only be a bad thing.

Hot topic, no clear lines, and just my opinion. If only there were a way to get to the actual truth in all cases.

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 05:21PM

The Purveyor of Truth wrote: »

Are you really asking me for proof and studies to back up my 'opinion' that, now and in the past, thousands of men have been wrongly imprisoned for rape?

Yes I am. I'm interested in how you formed that opinion, or did you just make it up because it sounds about right to you?

Quite obviously, if such "proof" existed then the men involved would hardly have been incarcerated in the first place, or at the very least, wouldn't be incarcerated now. What an odd request. The reason it is a "given" is because it is quite reasonable to speculate that the number of men that have had their rape convictions overturned down the years, is just really a small fraction of the total number of those that overall, have been wrongly imprisoned rape charges.

You think it's unreasonable to ask for proof of your claims based on your speculation based on a lack of evidence?

That's quite a hole you're digging for yourself if we're to follow your logic that what we believe based on lack of evidence should still be put forward as the truth...

Only a fool would believe that the number of people that have been wrongly convicted of murder, also directly matches the number of people that have had their murder convictions overturned. A naive one at that. We know that hundreds of men have had their rape convictions quashed down the years and so it is of course quite reasonable to then assume that the number of those just imprisoned for the crime, would be higher than that. It might not be politically correct to say that but truth rarely is.

Only a fool wouldn't see right through your murdered strawman, and that's only because it has nothing to do with this thread, and certainly nothing to do with the evidence I asked for, which you have failed to provide. I don't think it's really a good precedent to be setting arguing that we should be able to make reasonable assumptions based on lack of evidence.

I'd worry more about your credentials as the purveyor of truth than I would about your political correctness tbh.

14-09-2014 05:36PM

Pwindedd wrote: »

False allegations of rape are wrong - end of. They should be punished. But not to the extent where you may prevent a person doing the right thing and stopping a wrongful conviction, by confessing to lying in the first place.

The are so many variables in cases like these. It's not a case of "well they lied, bang em up". This lady for example - clearly falls into the category of false allegation, but if her blog post is anything to go by then not as cut and dried as it looks. Harrowing in fact.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2013/08/23/i-am-a-false-rape-allegation-statistic/

It's awful that people feel that they can falsely accuse someone of rape, and I have the deepest sympathy for anyone who finds themselves in that position. Not nice. The cases we hear about such as this one, tend to stand out in the media. Can you imagine if the papers reported every rape story that happened - irrespective of outcome - the morning paper would become the size of a telephone directory. 230 a day in the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/thereporters/markeaston/2008/07/rape_a_complex_crime.html

It's good that false accusations are highlighted but we do need to make sure we don't go backwards in our attitudes to rape. If a culture of not believing rape victims re-emerges it can only be a bad thing.

Hot topic, no clear lines, and just my opinion. If only there were a way to get to the actual truth in all cases.

Christ that link is really upsetting. How can police behave like that in a civilised society? They victimised that woman again, and again.

Please, remember my story when you see “false rape” statistics. Remember my friend, who admitted to a false report charge in order to keep her veteran benefits after being discharged (her rapist’s good friend and direct superior handled the case; a discharge was inevitable.) Remember the middle-aged woman I met, still traumatized, who, as a teenager, recanted her story when her rapist (and stepfather) threatened to kill her family. And the many, many others, all unknown, all forgotten–even in the bare statistics, which are often the only testament to our experiences. And we’re denied even that. Instead, our stories, our traumas, are used to stigmatize and further traumatize new victims. It makes me sick to know MRAs can take our numbers and use them to justify their “bitches be lying” stance. I can’t put into words how devastating that is

Poor woman, I can't imagine how sickened she must be, but no one can say she didn't try.

Woman walks free after admitting she lied about boyfriend raping her

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