Woman walks free after admitting she lied about boyfriend raping her

osarusan · 14-09-2014 11:02AM

In a criminal trial, the burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt.

In the event of a person admitting the crime, does that confession by itself constitute proof beyond reasonable doubt, or does there need to be other evidence pointing towards a conclusion of guilt that is beyond reasonable doubt?

I ask this because there are a few posters saying that we don't really know what heppened here, that it's unclear.

But a judge convicted her and sentenced her. It seems to have been pretty clear to the judge, but I'm wondering how much of that clarity was provided by the confession alone.

Minera · 14-09-2014 11:20AM

What a mess for both their lives- she will have liar stamped all over her for the rest of her life, no matter what job she goes for, any future partner(s) will run a mile ( if they have any sense- even if it was a youthful mistake) and the same goes for him a lifetime of suspicion. So so messy!

py2006 · 14-09-2014 11:43AM

Minera wrote: »

What a mess for both their lives- she will have liar stamped all over her for the rest of her life, no matter what job she goes for, any future partner(s) will run a mile ( if they have any sense- even if it was a youthful mistake) and the same goes for him a lifetime of suspicion. So so messy!

I think that is putting it mildly on both counts!

irish gent · 14-09-2014 11:50AM

I know a guy that knows a guy, that got locked up for rape he never did it hes says. But two years later she claimed another guy rape her .He got out of prison because the case was opened again and she was locked up for lying .Hes girlfriend stud by him and they married a year later on..

The Purveyor of Truth · 14-09-2014 12:19PM

py2006 wrote: »

What is most frightening to me is that there are probably men in jail as we speak based on a false allegation. And there most certainly has been in the past.

Oh thousands upon thousands I'd say.

Interestingly, back in '99, the only woman to ever be convicted of rape in this country, was released and had her conviction quashed after serving just four days of the life sentence she received, when it was discovered that the two women that made the allegations (against her and a homeless man).. had lied. One of them it being discovered, having a history of making similar accusations about other people.

Kevin Myers was the only person I remember speaking out questioning what was happening. He felt RTE and much of the media were partaking in a witch hunt. The headlines back then were nuts. One was something like 'The Anti-Christ Raped Me'

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 01:18PM

py2006 wrote: »

What is most frightening to me is that there are probably men in jail as we speak based on a false allegation. And there most certainly has been in the past.

The Purveyor of Truth wrote: »

Oh thousands upon thousands I'd say.

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion, beyond a few anecdotes, media articles and google searches?

Because if your interest is in seeing innocent people aren't incarcerated based on false allegations, it's probably best not to be perpetuating those sort of scaremongering myths. If one was a regular reader of the Daily Mail, they might be given to believe that statistics relating to women making false allegations of rape against men are actually much higher than they are in reality.

py2006 · 14-09-2014 01:45PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Because if your interest is in seeing innocent people aren't incarcerated based on false allegations, it's probably best not to be perpetuating those sort of scaremongering myths. If one was a regular reader of the Daily Mail, they might be given to believe that statistics relating to women making false allegations of rape against men are actually much higher than they are in reality.

Well haven't innocent people gone to prison for other crimes? Or is that all 'myth' too?

PucaMama · 14-09-2014 01:53PM

The Purveyor of Truth wrote: »

Oh thousands upon thousands I'd say.

Interestingly, back in '99, the only woman to ever be convicted of rape in this country, was released and had her conviction quashed after serving just four days of the life sentence she received, when it was discovered that the two women that made the allegations (against her and a homeless man).. had lied. One of them it being discovered, having a history of making similar accusations about other people.

Kevin Myers was the only person I remember speaking out questioning what was happening. He felt RTE and much of the media were partaking in a witch hunt. The headlines back then were nuts. One was something like 'The Anti-Christ Raped Me'

Thousands and thousands? Really? People really have been brainwashed by this nonsense.

Shakespeare's Sister · 14-09-2014 01:54PM

Yeh thousands and thousands is really questionable IMO. That doesn't mean I don't think people get wrongfully imprisoned. We all know they do.

py2006 · 14-09-2014 02:04PM

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Yeh thousands and thousands is really questionable IMO.

May be you are right. A quick search found me a handful straight away. Thousands and thousands may not be provable but I'd say you could hit 3 figures fairly quickly in the US alone.

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 02:07PM

py2006 wrote: »

Well haven't innocent people gone to prison for other crimes? Or is that all 'myth' too?

Wait a minute. I thought your assertion was concerned with innocent people being incarcerated based on of false allegations of rape, what we're actually talking about in this thread. Do you have any studies or statistics to present as evidence for your claims?

Otherwise you are just perpetuating myths.

py2006 · 14-09-2014 02:11PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Wait a minute. I thought your assertion was concerned with innocent people being incarcerated based on of false allegations of rape, what we're actually talking about in this thread. Do you have any studies or statistics to present as evidence for your claims?

Otherwise you are just perpetuating myths.

Ok I am confused now. I need to produce evidence that people have been incarcerated based on a false allegation of rape?

RollieFingers · 14-09-2014 02:11PM

Dirty yoke deserves nothing but a c*nt punt for lies like that!

osarusan · 14-09-2014 02:11PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Otherwise you are just perpetuating myths.

What myth is this, exactly?

TheBeardedLady · 14-09-2014 02:13PM

PucaMama wrote: »

Thousands and thousands? Really? People really have been brainwashed by this nonsense.

Comments like that don't help the genuine cases: if people are made to believe it's a common occurrence when there's no evidence to back it up, then women will be even more hesitant to come forward and report a rape. Thoughtless, irresponsible comment to make without thinking. :mad:

PucaMama · 14-09-2014 02:16PM

py2006 wrote: »

Ok I am confused now. I need to produce evidence that people have been incarcerated based on a false allegation of rape?

Please do, for Ireland

py2006 · 14-09-2014 02:17PM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Comments like that don't help the genuine cases: if people are made to believe it's a common occurrence when there's no evidence to back it up, then women will be even more hesitant to come forward and report a rape. Thoughtless, irresponsible comment to make without thinking. :mad:

I doubt we will never know the actual figure. I would be more angered at the woman in question here as (besides the damage to her victim) its people like her that make it even more difficult for real victims to come forward.

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 02:17PM

py2006 wrote: »

Ok I am confused now. I need to produce evidence that people have been incarcerated based on a false allegation of rape?

I actually asked for statistics. I could do a quick google search myself if all I wanted was to have your assertions confirmed by media reports.

The same system that finds people innocent is the same system that finds people guilty, and the system can fail both parties equally, so your statement is effectively meaningless.

spurious · 14-09-2014 02:18PM

py2006 wrote: »

What is most frightening to me is that there are probably men in jail as we speak based on a false allegation. And there most certainly has been in the past.

Not as many as have raped and never been charged, I'd say.

But anyway, dreadful case. She should have done some custodial time. I'd be keen on police speaking to her friend too, who encouraged her to pursue the allegation.

PucaMama · 14-09-2014 02:19PM

py2006 wrote: »

I doubt we will never know the actual figure. I would be more angered at the woman in question here as (besides the damage to her victim) its people like her that make it even more difficult for real victims to come forward.

I'll tell you what puts people off reporting it its the people that are spouting the nonsense that every second report is false

py2006 · 14-09-2014 02:22PM

PucaMama wrote: »

I'll tell you what puts people off reporting it its the people that are spouting the nonsense that every second report is false

Who exactly said that?

PucaMama · 14-09-2014 02:24PM

py2006 wrote: »

Who exactly said that?

All this rubbish of thousands of men in jail wrongly its so frustrating and proves my own personal opinion of what's the point in reporting rape its never taken seriously anyway. No confidence in reporting it!

ahnowbrowncow · 14-09-2014 02:24PM

spurious wrote: »

Not as many as have raped and never been charged, I'd say.

But anyway, dreadful case. She should have done some custodial time. I'd be keen on police speaking to her friend too, who encouraged her to pursue the allegation.

I'd prefer the guilty to escape justice than innocents be punished. I'd obviously prefer if both scenarios didn't happen.

Fat Christy · 14-09-2014 02:25PM

I think the woman in this case should definitely receive some sort of punishment. If she isn't reprimanded, it acts as an example that this sort of carry on is okay. Not only is she potentially ruining her bf's life but she is also making it more difficult for actual rape victims to come forward.

I've heard stories of girls going out on the tear, sleeping with guys and regretting it the next day and then crying rape when they weren't raped at all. Of course that is hearsay but I believe it does happen like the case a few years ago where the girl had a threesome and then said she was raped when she wasn't. I don't know the exact details of that case but I think her parents played some part in filing the rape claim.

PucaMama · 14-09-2014 02:26PM

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

I'd prefer the guilty to escape justice than innocents be punished.

Sure because its better that 100 rapists go free than 1 innocent person gets punished

Fat Christy · 14-09-2014 02:26PM

PucaMama wrote: »

All this rubbish of thousands of men in jail wrongly its so frustrating and proves my own personal opinion of what's the point in reporting rape its never taken seriously anyway. No confidence in reporting it!

I agree, I wouldn't say they are thousands falsely imprisoned but they are definitely some!

py2006 · 14-09-2014 02:28PM

PucaMama wrote: »

All this rubbish of thousands of men in jail wrongly its so frustrating and proves my own personal opinion of what's the point in reporting rape its never taken seriously anyway. No confidence in reporting it!

Not sure I can agree with that. I would assume a serious crime reported is taken very seriously in most cases. What isn't taken serious is the false accusation such as the one in question here.

Czarcasm · 14-09-2014 02:29PM

py2006 wrote: »

I doubt we will never know the actual figure. I would be more angered at the woman in question here as (besides the damage to her victim) its people like her that make it even more difficult for real victims to come forward.

It's not actually. This is only one single case, and the bigger reason for the fear people have of coming forward to make a complaint is not just that they won't be believed, but that they actually have to prove they were raped in the first place.

The stigma in society surrounding rape itself is a far more common deterrent to coming forward, than a handful of false allegations highlighted in the media, in proportion to the number of rapes that go unreported in the media.

TheBeardedLady · 14-09-2014 02:29PM

py2006 wrote: »

I doubt we will never know the actual figure. I would be more angered at the woman in question here as (besides the damage to her victim) its people like her that make it even more difficult for real victims to come forward.

Oh I'm angry with her alright, don't worry about that. More angry with her than the exaggeration of facts (I've enough anger to share around tbh) but as she's not posting here, I can't confront her.

Fat Christy · 14-09-2014 02:31PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's not actually. This is only one single case, and the bigger reason for the fear people have of coming forward to make a complaint is not just that they won't be believed, but that they actually have to prove they were raped in the first place.

The stigma in society surrounding rape itself is a far more common deterrent to coming forward, than a handful of false allegations highlighted in the media, in proportion to the number of rapes that go unreported in the media.

Well she definitely doesn't help the case to be honest. If this was to become a common occurrence, however unlikely, it would act as a serious deterrent for actual rape victims to come forward.