Woman walks free after admitting she lied about boyfriend raping her

whatdoicare · 13-09-2014 01:45PM

tritium wrote: »

Now now, give a chance to edit, don't worry I'll get to it all.....

And the last line I wrote?

tritium · 13-09-2014 01:49PM

whatdoicare wrote: »

And the last line I wrote?

You do realise that the two people who were there both agree that a rape didn't happen, in spite of your attempts at amateur psychology. Would you care to call them both liars or do you accept their word on that?

Czarcasm · 13-09-2014 01:51PM

tritium wrote: »

U fortunately its also a crime that has been hijacked by a number of groups to drive a broader agenda.

Are you not doing the same thing though in hijacking this case though in order to drive a broader agenda?

This specific case would be a poor case to try and highlight the issue of false allegations of rape when it's far from as clear cut as you're trying to make out.

whatdoicare · 13-09-2014 01:52PM

tritium wrote: »

You do realise that the two people who were there both agree that a rape didn't happen, in spite of your attempts at amateur psychology. Would you care to call them both liars or do you accept their word on that?

I didn't call either of them a liar (the whole point of my post), I posted that it may not be as clear cut as we read in the article. IE No one only those involved know what happened.

osarusan · 13-09-2014 01:52PM

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Aye. There are people evil enough to blatantly lie that someone raped/sexually assaulted/abused them, but that doesn't mean there can't be cases where the person truly feels like they were violated, but then withdraw the allegation.

The question is, are either of these scenarios relevant here?

If it's the former, then the punishment is certainly not harsh, in my opinion.

Shakespeare's Sister · 13-09-2014 02:35PM

Whatdoicare called nobody a liar and did not try to trivialise false rape allegations. Sometimes it feels like, on these threads, that there is a tiny handful of posters just waiting to pounce on any dubious opportunity to call someone up on being dismissive of abuse of men.

tritium · 13-09-2014 02:42PM

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Whatdoicare called nobody a liar and did not try to trivialise false rape allegations. Sometimes it feels like, on these threads, that there is a tiny handful of posters just waiting to pounce on any dubious opportunity to call someone up on being dismissive of abuse of men.

Look, its simple, the girl has been convicted of perverting the course of justice for making a false rape allegation. The man in this case is not only presumed innocent but is in fact innocent based on the word of the convicted person. No amount of "here's lots of other scenarios I concocted in my head because I'm suspicious and it looks fishy" will change that. Coming up with those scenarios serves no purpose except to tar someone who's already been through what can only be a hellish ordeal.

Sometimes in these threads there a large handful of posters just dying to find a fire for the smoke they think they can smell

COYVB · 13-09-2014 02:44PM

If it's proven a woman lied about a rape then she should get the same jail term the man would've gotten if found guilty.

Before anyone chimes in with "but then you'd have innocent women going to jail", I said women proven to have lied. That's not the same as insufficient evidence to convict an accused rapist. It's not a case of one or the other going to jail depending on the outcome.

tritium · 13-09-2014 02:45PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Are you not doing the same thing though in hijacking this case though in order to drive a broader agenda?

This specific case would be a poor case to try and highlight the issue of false allegations of rape when it's far from as clear cut as you're trying to make out.

Perhaos , though that not my intention here. Most people when they post are influence by their own perspective so I doubt I'm immune to that. I do t think that invalidates or make untrue the point I've made there though. Do you disagree?

Czarcasm · 13-09-2014 02:50PM

tritium wrote: »

Look, its simple, the girl has been convicted of perverting the course of justice for making a false rape allegation. The man in this case is not only presumed innocent but is in fact innocent based on the word of the convicted person. No amount of "here's lots of other scenarios I concocted in my head because I'm suspicious and it looks fishy" will change that. Coming up with those scenarios serves no purpose except to tar someone who's already been through what can only be a hellish ordeal.

Earlier on trivium you berated whatdoicare for their, as you put it 'amateur psychology', but you've done no different here yourself in putting forward how you feel the man should feel, when there is nothing in the article that gives us any insight into how the man was feeling, only that he thought the woman was 'crazy', but he has forgiven her already.

tritium · 13-09-2014 02:55PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Earlier on trivium you berated whatdoicare for their, as you put it 'amateur psychology', but you've done no different here yourself in putting forward how you feel the man should feel, when there is nothing in the article that gives us any insight into how the man was feeling, only that he thought the woman was 'crazy', but he has forgiven her already.

C quit it, its beneath you. We both know the general status of sex offenders in the prison population. Do you for a moment want to argue anyone would fcuking enjoy it. We all know the effect of a conviction for that on someone's life, do you really want to argue folks just meander on through it. I'm not trying to put myself in the victims head, I'm statingvthe obvious consequence for everyone except the the mentally deranged or terminally masochistic of such a situation.

Czarcasm · 13-09-2014 02:57PM

tritium wrote: »

Perhaos , though that not my intention here. Most people when they post are influence by their own perspective so I doubt I'm immune to that. I do t think that invalidates or make untrue the point I've made there though. Do you disagree?

I know it's not your intention, and I understand where you're coming from. Your point isn't invalidated by what you're saying is true, but it's invalidated by your assumptions based on your perspective, and then the wider agenda you alluded to there about the legal definitions of rape in different jurisdictions.

You're trying to bring up a couple of different agendas, and using a poor case to do it as we're not given the full details of the case, nor any background to the case, nor any statement from the two people involved apart from their lawyers.

tritium · 13-09-2014 03:00PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

I know it's not your intention, and I understand where you're coming from. Your point isn't invalidated by what you're saying is true, but it's invalidated by your assumptions based on your perspective, and then the wider agenda you alluded to there about the legal definitions of rape in different jurisdictions.

You're trying to bring up a couple of different agendas, and using a poor case to do it as we're not given the full details of the case, nor any background to the case, nor any statement from the two people involved apart from their lawyers.

Actually my response wasn't in general about this case, it was more a direct response to the poi t Shakespeare's sister had made, to broaden that situation tehyd alluded to.

Czarcasm · 13-09-2014 03:10PM

tritium wrote: »

C quit it, its beneath you. We both know the general status of sex offenders in the prison population. Do you for a moment want to argue anyone would fcuking enjoy it. We all know the effect of a conviction for that on someone's life, do you really want to argue folks just meander on through it. I'm not trying to put myself in the victims head, I'm statingvthe obvious consequence for everyone except the the mentally deranged or terminally masochistic of such a situation.

Perhaps you missed my earlier post then -

Czarcasm wrote: »

I don't know enough about this particular case, or the people involved, to be able to make a comment either way. The article in the OP presents all sorts of confusing and conflicting details in one way, and then not enough detail in another way.

I'm not immediately given to jumping on any bandwagons saying the woman should do jail time etc, she got a two year suspended sentence, which is more than the girl who made a false allegation of rape against me got at the time. There were a number of factors involved in the case, which I won't go into here, but suffice to say that it ended up worse for the girl in question, and the ostracism she suffered, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. She was 15 at the time, and people who hardly even knew me, sought to punish her on my behalf, because they had their own reasons for trying to do so.

It didn't ruin my life at all and ten years later when I met that girl again and she apologised, I told her it was unnecessary, and we've remained friends since. That's a very specific case though, just like many of the specific cases mentioned in this thread, and like the specific case mentioned in the OP. I wouldn't support calls to make new laws for the specific circumstances of false allegations of rape based off news articles where the details are sketchy at best.

I also found it somewhat interesting that the Daily Mail is generally considered a tabloid rag in After Hours for it's piss poor lack of journalism standards, yet when it reports a case like this, it is ironically considered The Purveyor of Truth.

I wouldn't normally do this either, but a whatsapp message last night from a friend. Bear in mind that this is completely out of context, and just goes to show that in cases like these, there's no such thing as 'clear cut' and what way you think a person should feel, isn't always necessarily how they actually feel themselves -

So off course i go out, wit another girl mighty craic get loaded drunk end up scoring some ass, and i cant understand as to why he ended up n my taxi or my bed for that matter cos i gave him such a bck hander across the face cos he grabbed my top and lifted it up n the middle of the street

Without any further details, how clear cut is that?

Shakespeare's Sister · 13-09-2014 03:38PM

Even if she didn't ruin your life though, Czarcasm, she did an atrocious thing. Fair play that you were able to rise above it but I wouldn't blame another man in your situation for being angry, nor would I blame people for being very condemning of her.

UCDVet · 13-09-2014 04:49PM

Hypothetically speaking - what would happen if he raped her now? I mean, is anyone going to believe her story again?

Robroy36 · 13-09-2014 05:09PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

well,

here comes the generalisation trains..........

choooo

I hear you buddy.

This happens occasionally and it is unfortunate but legislating on these odd occurrences would be as mad as legislating on abortion based on the Savita case. Both unfortunate, freak occurrences but should not be used as thin ends of the wedge.

tritium · 13-09-2014 06:11PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Perhaps you missed my earlier post then -

I wouldn't normally do this either, but a whatsapp message last night from a friend. Bear in mind that this is completely out of context, and just goes to show that in cases like these, there's no such thing as 'clear cut' and what way you think a person should feel, isn't always necessarily how they actually feel themselves -

Without any further details, how clear cut is that?

Ah no, I had read your earlier post. Its actually why I'm a bit surprised at your perspective (and maybe a bit tetchy). Just to be clear, I'm not saying I don't understand people speculating in a case, that's human nature. But this is different, the guy has been proven about as innocent as possible, even his accuser has fessed up. At this poi t he deserves better than to be the subject of gossip and speculation.

Fair play to you though I know I wouldn't have been so understanding in your shoes

Czarcasm · 13-09-2014 06:32PM

tritium wrote: »

Fair play to you though I know I wouldn't have been so understanding in your shoes

Tbh trivium it's one of those situations where context is everything, and there isn't anything near enough context provided in that article to be demonizing anyone. In my particular case I saw it as the girl was only 15 and had a lot of issues that I was aware of that other people weren't, so I didn't want anyone demonizing her, but my opinion didn't matter to some people who had their own agenda going on and wanted to see her punished.

The way I saw it - people make mistakes, and teenagers especially so. I saw no particular reason why her life needed to be ruined, and I wasn't going to be part of any baying "eye for an eye" so-called justice either.

I can understand why someone else would be angry at someone for a false accusation, I can't say I was too happy about it myself, more disappointed than angry, but I was angry at the people who tried to use my case to further their own agenda and didn't particularly care about the effect it would have on a 15 year old girl who was already dealing with a lot herself. She told me later she had considered taking her own life, and tbh I'm not sure that would have mattered to the same people that wanted to see her punished.

Calibos · 13-09-2014 06:45PM

How do we know she wasn't threatened to withdraw the allegations...or else?

tritium · 13-09-2014 07:04PM

Calibos wrote: »

How do we know she wasn't threatened to withdraw the allegations...or else?

Hmm we don't

Maybe we should just lynch him to be on the safe side

Hey, do we really need courts either?

Nomis21 · 13-09-2014 10:05PM

Why didn't she just withdraw the allegations without giving a reason? She didn't have to admit she was lying but by doing so, she exonerates him

Also...

We are dealing with a couple who are romantically involved. Although angry at the time she may well have forgiven him later and did not want him prosecuted even though he may have actually committed the crime.

Shakespeare's Sister · 13-09-2014 10:36PM

tritium wrote: »

Hmm we don't

Maybe we should just lynch him to be on the safe side

Hey, do we really need courts either?

I don't agree with that poster applying such a scenario in this case, but I suppose it could happen.

tritium · 13-09-2014 10:49PM

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

I don't agree with that poster applying such a scenario in this case, but I suppose it could happen.

This goes back to the point I've been trying to make for a while now. You can suppose anything could happen. Its no more or less plausible than saying she's mentally disturbed or just a bad person with a poor sense of perspective for her actions. Or that she just made a mistake and lied. None of these are impossible however the only thing we know definitively is she has confessed to making a false rape allegation against him. His character was, to our understanding at least impeccable up to the point of that allegation. Given its been withdrawn we have no right nor reason to presume that his character is anything less than impeccable now.

This is why I hate the idea of suspects being identified. Maybe it human nature but inevitably you get the whisperings of all these fanciful scenarios whereby the victim in this case is somehow actually really guilty. Its analogous to blaming a rape victim for what happened to them because maybe they actually did something to lead the attacker on. Except its considered far more acceptable and the stigma is never likely to go away given the availability of information.

Czarcasm · 13-09-2014 11:36PM

tritium wrote: »

Except its considered far more acceptable and the stigma is never likely to go away given the availability of information.

Making false rape allegations is considered far more acceptable than what exactly? And by whom? Perhaps I'm reading that wrong. At least I hope I am!

People will always talk tritium, there's no getting away from that fact, and even if media reports never named names, these things will always find their way into the public domain, and even more so now with the viral nature of gossip spreading on social media.

The only reason this came to the attention of the Daily Mail was because the woman withdrew the allegation, not because of the fact it was false in the first place. The DM is still a sensationalist rag I wouldn't wipe my arse with, so I'll hold off on my applauding their highlighting this particular case.

Angry_Mammarys · 14-09-2014 01:49AM

Any woman that makes false rape allegations is pure scum, first of all I have brothers and a boyfriend and if anyone ever made up claims like that against them, I'd happily make sure they wished they'd never been born, second of all, its cows like this that may make women that actually were raped, feel very apprehensive about reporting it, its the most vile thing anyone can do, and sadly these things stick, I know of a man falsely accused of something like this, and people still talk about it.

tritium · 14-09-2014 07:04AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Making false rape allegations is considered far more acceptable than what exactly? And by whom? Perhaps I'm reading that wrong. At least I hope I am!

People will always talk tritium, there's no getting away from that fact, and even if media reports never named names, these things will always find their way into the public domain, and even more so now with the viral nature of gossip spreading on social media.

The only reason this came to the attention of the Daily Mail was because the woman withdrew the allegation, not because of the fact it was false in the first place. The DM is still a sensationalist rag I wouldn't wipe my arse with, so I'll hold off on my applauding their highlighting this particular case.

Reread C and I'll put it down to the lateness of the hour you were reading it. My point is that victim blaming in this scenario (I.e.. The assumption that they must have done something) is far more acceptable than to do the same in the rape victim analogy I gave.

Yes people will always talk, but you can move from an area or change jobs and with anonymity have a chance to move on with time. Once you're named, withe advent if social media, that becomes impossible. BTW much as we like to giggle at the DM here's no current newspaper (or news channel) that can calim to be agenda free or offer fair and objective reporting. Indeed the ones that claim to do so (paper of record etc) can be the worst offenders

14-09-2014 07:38AM

Mod

The facts as we know them:

- A woman has been convicted of lying about being raped.
- An innocent man has been falsely accused of raping a woman.

Any posts which contain even a hint of libel will not be tolerated.

AtomicHorror · 14-09-2014 08:52AM

mrDerek wrote: »

fckn bitch and women bang on about equal rights.... suppose the shoe was on the other foot i know its implausible lol but if it was do you think the guy would get off with such a light repercussion

Yeah sure that's the take home message here. Women who want equal rights are hypocrites because someone they don't know committed a crime.

py2006 · 14-09-2014 10:05AM

What is most frightening to me is that there are probably men in jail as we speak based on a false allegation. And there most certainly has been in the past.

Woman walks free after admitting she lied about boyfriend raping her

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